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BackHarlowRoad wrote:
Only way Laramie's elevation effects a football player from any team is the mental aspect. Altitude might effect cross country runners and soccer players, but not a short-burst sports like football.
It really is mind games at the end of the day. I've spoken to two athletes who've played football/basketball games in Laramie and both claimed the elevation is overrated. 7220 ft. is intimidating when you point it out, but without it visiting players would barely notice.
It didn't affect Hawaii's players and they almost beat us last year. Only reasons we beat them was a) Brett Smith, b) Herron, and c) they had a bigger jackass for a head coach than we did!!!
Hawaii only took it to us last year because they knew we may be their only other chance at a win, but those guys were freezing and gassed on the sidelines. Several of their WRs were on oxy masks on the sideline, especially after the long gains and Tds. I think I even saw there RB Iosefa on an O2 mask a couple times. They were just determined to win that game.
Altitude does play a role. When we were run and gun under McClain, you would see SDSU and other teams having wobbly legs by halftime. When we hosted Virginia in football, those guys were on oxygen from the second quarter on.
When you come from sea level to about 3,000 feet, you will feel the effect. When you come from 4,000 and up, you don't feel it as much.
I think we win this game in the second half with our running game (Wick, May) and our defensive line (Yarbrough, Puletasi). I'd love a blowout considering I'm traveling with a Montana fan who's Montana parent are already talking smack. I'm hoping she pulls her UW jacket over her Montana apparel in the 2nd quarter!
Turnovers will be huge but I think the running backs will be too tough to stop for 4 quarters. I'm gonna say 32-17 for a score.
BJC wrote:It seems you don't see the oxygen masks as much as you used to (NFL) I thought maybe they were ruled only for medical use or something.
It's because they are pointless. Even in Laramie there is no physiological use for them, there is still more oxygen in the atmosphere than the lungs can use. Now using them as a mental placebo effect, ok sure...but physically there is zero need for oxygen in any sports stadium in the US.
And there is the argument that football is primarely an anarobic activity. .....that said....still harder to catch your breath but not as much of a performance factor.
Just playing devils advocate but if there's more oxygen in the air than our lungs can use, then what's the point of smokers being on oxygen? There's definitely more oxygen than what their lungs can use
laxwyo wrote:Just playing devils advocate but if there's more oxygen in the air than our lungs can use, then what's the point of smokers being on oxygen? There's definitely more oxygen than what their lungs can use
Here is some learning and research I had to do before my Dad passed away due to emphysema. I had to find the best place for him to live that he wanted to be in that was affordable and would ease breathing for him. Now when he moved he barely changed from 6400 feet to 5200 feet but he could immediately feel the difference and he wasn't short of breath as often.
The important effect of this decrease in pressure is this: in a given volume of air, there are fewer molecules present. This is really just another way of saying that the pressure is lower (this is called Boyle's law). The percentage of those molecules that are oxygen is exactly the same: 21%. The problem is that there are fewer molecules of everything present, including oxygen.
So although the percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere is the same, the thinner air means there is less oxygen to breathe.
Try using our barometric pressure calculator to see how air pressure changes at high altitudes. Or use the altitude oxygen graph to see how much less oxygen is available at any altitude.
The pictures above demonstrate the effect of altitude on barometric pressure. I sealed a plastic bottle like this one in La Paz, Bolivia, at an altitude of 3600m (about 12000ft). I then brought it home with me to Edinburgh (which is pretty much at sea level). As you can see, the pressure of the atmosphere pushing down on the bottle has caused it to collapse.
The same thing happens in reverse to sealed objects when you take them up to high altitudes. Above is a photograph of a roll-on deodorant that I sealed in London, then opened in La Paz. It exploded across my hotel room.
The body makes a wide range of changes in order to cope better with the lack of oxygen at high altitude. This process is called acclimatisation. If you don't acclimatise properly, you greatly increase your chance of developing altitude sickness, or even worse, HAPE (high altitude pulmonary oedema) or HACE (high altitude cerebral oedema).
Now I get this is somewhat extreme 12,000 feet and all but the difference is still there it still affects people differently. That is why when we travel to any place with a lower altitude we should be at an advantage.
Anyway learning lesson over and all it impacts people differently but to say it has no impact at all or it's overrated it's just not correct.
So, you're saying westwyopoke is incorrect in his assertion that taking oxygen during the game is worthless? That's my point. If there was enough oxygen for healthy lungs, there would never be a need for an unhealthy lung, which we know is false.
I live at 6200ft and recently hiked from creek (7800) to peek (10200) and my lungs could have used some extra O2. It's not that my lungs aren't getting enough O2, it's that they must start working harder, sooner than they normally would
Those without lung disease should be able to adapt to an altitude of 7200 ft pretty much immediately. I think the value of acclimatization doesn't hit until around 9-10,000 ft or so, where it will take time for the body to make physiological adjustments. Coming from sea-level would actually be an advantage in a sport like football because it is based on speed and the recovery at sea-level is faster. Training at low altitude long-term allows an athlete to train harder and faster and develop more fast-twitch muscle. However, since we are working out at this tough altitude all the time we should have better fitness. Football is not an endurance sport per se but the game is a couple hours long and recovery is important. Even though athletes from different elevations would be equal at 7000ft we SHOULD have the conditioning advantage, they will have the speed advantage. I would think the mental influence would be significant too. Both athletes suffer equally but it feels much scarier to the low-lander not being able to catch his breath.
Also, taking on oxygen during a game is totally cheating in my book. I never understood why they allowed that. The increase percentage of oxygen concentration from the canned air definitely makes up for the lack of oxygen due to pressure (correctly explained above). This would enable an athlete to recover faster on the sideline and also decrease muscular fatigue over the course of the game. Now maybe those guys in the Tour are shooting up with EPO in their hotel rooms but you sure as hell wouldn't see them pull up to the team car in the middle of the race and huff down some pure O2 on live TV- ridiculous!
I always thought aerial photos and headsets were totally cheating as well. If you can't see what's happening on the field as the game is happening to make adjustments, then you shouldn't be a coach
I agree with LAX. I live at 2,000 feet in Kansas. I go backpacking in WYO in the summer. I don't smoke and Ive kept myself in decent shape. Hiking up to "The Cirque of Towers" almost kills me! When living in Rock Springs just five years ago I was able to do it without hardly breaking a sweat.
Snowpoke, you can adapt, but not in a day or two. This is why Olympians train for months at a time at elevation.
kansasCowboy wrote:I agree with LAX. I live at 2,000 feet in Kansas. I go backpacking in WYO in the summer. I don't smoke and Ive kept myself in decent shape. Hiking up to "The Cirque of Towers" almost kills me! When living in Rock Springs just five years ago I was able to do it without hardly breaking a sweat.
Snowpoke, you can adapt, but not in a day or two. This is why Olympians train for months at a time at elevation.
Yeah it takes about 2-3 weeks for your body to more or less adapt to a higher elevation.
I believe it KansasCowboy! That hike up from big sandy lake is no joke. The reason you're struggling is because you are past that break point where the body can quickly adapt to altitude. War Memorial is significantly lower and most people should adapt just fine.
As far as altitude camps go, they are thought to increase fitness by spurring red blood cell production in response to the low oxygen. This is basically what I was referring to when I said we should have a fitness advantage over other teams. Even if there is very little immediate physiological consequence of coming to 7,000 ft we are basically at a full time altitude camp and should be in better shape than our competitors.
Going to MSU and being constantly disappointed by losing to UM, even when we were supposed to be the better team, has me a little worried about this game. I think we pull it out though.
snowpoke wrote:I believe it KansasCowboy! That hike up from big sandy lake is no joke. The reason you're struggling is because you are past that break point where the body can quickly adapt to altitude. War Memorial is significantly lower and most people should adapt just fine.
As far as altitude camps go, they are thought to increase fitness by spurring red blood cell production in response to the low oxygen. This is basically what I was referring to when I said we should have a fitness advantage over other teams. Even if there is very little immediate physiological consequence of coming to 7,000 ft we are basically at a full time altitude camp and should be in better shape than our competitors.
Going to MSU and being constantly disappointed by losing to UM, even when we were supposed to be the better team, has me a little worried about this game. I think we pull it out though.
I do agree to a point. But when I just go for a small 4-6 mile run in Rock Springs (6,500 ft) I am winded one mile in. That's the difference, a And I'm below Laramies elevation.
