Join The Posse - Sellout vs. Montana

[MTcowpoke]

Wyo has a larger stadium than Montana. Montana's stadium is sold out for most home games. Montana consistently averages more fans for home games than Wyo. Montana is a FCS team with an FBS fan base.

This game is not Montana's Super Bowl. Montana fans travel well. Provided tickets are available, there are usually thousands of Montana fans at away games supporting the Griz. This crowd will most likely be the largest in Wyo stadium this year. Wyo has its friends and neighbors from Montana to thank for that.

Wyo can offer about 20 more football scholarships than Montana. Therefore, one could assume that Wyo, at the very least, should win this game. There will be thousands of Griz faithful in Wyo stadium that will believe otherwise by raising their voices to encourage their Griz. Wyo fans had better raise theirs or the Montana faithful will be louder. I hope we all enjoy a close, exciting game. May the best team win.

There are certainly other factors as well - but that has been discussed so many times it makes me crazy. Fact of the matter is Montana is a FCS school - and as such competes at a lower level than Wyoming, in all but one week of their 2014 season, and that happens to be 8/30/14...against Wyoming. If I was a Montana fan, that would be the primary game of interest. But that is because of my culture & upbringing of being a FBS fan. I am not a FCS fan, never have been, never will be, and I don't know what it is like. But that is what Montana is...an FCS team, and the only thing Montana has (FCS football teams) - so I get it - you root for what you know, and what matters to you.

I realize you are not a Montana fan, but if you were the primary games of interest would be Montana State (114th meeting this year), Eastern Washington, North Dakota State (three time defending FCS Champion) and Wyo ( a distant fourth) in that order.

If Montana were playing a top tier FBS team this year (U of Washington for example) that would bump NDSU to fourth. Primary games of interest for the best FCS teams are the playoffs with the opportunity to play for a FCS national championship. Unfortunately, Wyo fans will never have the opportunity to enjoy a national championship in football until the big 5 push Wyo and all of the other second tier schools out of FBS, provided those schools establish a national championship format.

[McPeachy]

I realize you are not a Montana fan, but if you were the primary games of interest would be Montana State (114th meeting this year), Eastern Washington, North Dakota State (three time defending FCS Champion) and Wyo ( a distant fourth) in that order.

If Montana were playing a top tier FBS team this year (U of Washington for example) that would bump NDSU to fourth. Primary games of interest for the best FCS teams are the playoffs with the opportunity to play for a FCS national championship. Unfortunately, Wyo fans will never have the opportunity to enjoy a national championship in football until the big 5 push Wyo and all of the other second tier schools out of FBS, provided those schools establish a national championship format.

Nothing against Montana - I am sure if I was a born & raised Missoulan, I would bleed copper & gold (or maroon & silver these days). I care about Montana as much as I do any FCS program really. Meh.

As I tried to explain, it is a culture thing. I am an FBS fan, as a Wyoming fan. I could give 2 poop about any FCS teams, their games, their playoffs, their champions, their rivals, etc. I would take a win over a Tennessee, UCLA, Ole Miss, Virginia, MWC Rivals, etc., before I would remotely care about beating BlahBlah Tech in the FCS championship game in BFE Georgia. That would certainly change if Wyoming were an FCS school, but that isn't the case. And further, our fanbase would be devastated to drop a level of competition, even though everyone knows, we would dominate for 4 years, and ride that domination to probably many more years of being a perennial top 10 FCS team. I wouldn't be a fan though - that would be up to the next generation.

[WestWYOPoke]

As I tried to explain, it is a culture thing. I am an FBS fan, as a Wyoming fan. I could give 2 poop about any FCS teams, their games, their playoffs, their champions, their rivals, etc. I would take a win over a Tennessee, UCLA, Ole Miss, Virginia, MWC Rivals, etc., before I would remotely care about beating BlahBlah Tech in the FCS championship game in BFE Georgia. That would certainly change if Wyoming were an FCS school, but that isn't the case. And further, our fanbase would be devastated to drop a level of competition, even though everyone knows, we would dominate for 4 years, and ride that domination to probably many more years of being a perennial top 10 FCS team. I wouldn't be a fan though - that would be up to the next generation.

Really doubt it. The day we dropped from FBS, about half of our football team would transfer out. And since we would be dropping they can transfer without needing a release and without sitting out a year. After that, who is to say we would get good enough recruits to compete at FCS? I honestly think if we were FCS we would not be annual contenders as many on here think, I think we would be upper half with the occasional contender, but not Top 3 every year.

[BeaverPoke]

Last night at 11:42 pm the website said 5634 tickets let. Now at 12:50 pm today it says 5499.

[McPeachy]

Really doubt it. The day we dropped from FBS, about half of our football team would transfer out. And since we would be dropping they can transfer without needing a release and without sitting out a year. After that, who is to say we would get good enough recruits to compete at FCS? I honestly think if we were FCS we would not be annual contenders as many on here think, I think we would be upper half with the occasional contender, but not Top 3 every year.

Consider...

1. Wyoming is the only game in Wyoming. I wouldn't support it (like I do now) any longer, but the next generation would. When you are the only movie theatre, people are going to go watch, like what is showing or not.

2. We have more money to spend than most (if not all) of the current FCS programs have. Our current AD is good at just floating by - so naturally it would fit. Maintain the budget, and UW would be golden. I am sure they (the AD) has thought about how much less effort they would have to give (and how they wouldn't have to work "as hard").

3. To say that 52 to 53 players would bail out is an overstatement of epic proportions IMO. Would some transfer out? Certainly. But also...some would transfer in as well. Any player from the FBS ranks could drop down and immediately play at FCS Wyoming (**See previous posts on how FCS programs attract FBS talent**). The pool is deeper there, than the reverse!

4. The level of competition. I don't even want to get into that...but the gap is HUGE. You think the gap is big between the SEC and MWC, you should consider the gaps that exist in the FCS. To be top 20 FCS really isn't anything special.

I could go on and on and on.

[WestWYOPoke]

I appreciate your points, however having been around D1 athletics and around Wyoming football in particular, I am not as optimistic to the loyalty of some 18-23 years olds as you may be.

1. Wyoming is the only game in Wyoming. I wouldn't support it (like I do now) any longer, but the next generation would. When you are the only movie theatre, people are going to go watch, like what is showing or not.

A valid point, but you can forget about people driving across the state and up from Fort Collins/Denver for games. The Laramie, Cheyenne, and maybe Casper crowd is about it.

2. We have more money to spend than most (if not all) of the current FCS programs have. Our current AD is good at just floating by - so naturally it would fit. Maintain the budget, and UW would be golden. I am sure they (the AD) has thought about how much less effort they would have to give (and how they wouldn't have to work "as hard").

We have money now, but if we dropped to FCS, our budget would be shredded. We would lose a lot of sponsor $$$, we would lose ticket revenues, we would lose TV money (not a ton, but still). Not to mention the massive loss of money from the Wildcatter suites, we would have to drop prices or it would not be used nearly as much IMO.

3. To say that 52 to 53 players would bail out is an overstatement of epic proportions IMO. Would some transfer out? Certainly. But also...some would transfer in as well. Any player from the FBS ranks could drop down and immediately play at FCS Wyoming (**See previous posts on how FCS programs attract FBS talent**). The pool is deeper there, than the reverse!

This is the big one for me. I am certain that we would lose a large percentage of athletes due to transfer. Seniors might stick around, but junior, sophs, etc...I bet 50%+ of each class would leave. Also, keep in mind that FCS programs only are allowed 63 scholarships as opposed to the 85 of FBS, so that would severely limit recruiting for the first year or two.

4. The level of competition. I don't even want to get into that...but the gap is HUGE. You think the gap is big between the SEC and MWC, you should consider the gaps that exist in the FCS. To be top 20 FCS really isn't anything special.

I agree that the gap between FBS and FCS is huge, HOWEVER, the gap between Wyoming and Alabama is far greater than the gap between Wyoming and North Dakota State. I'm not saying that our current roster couldn't dominate the FCS, my point is that we would not have our current roster, it would be a shell of what it is now.


The biggest reason I feel that this would hurt UW is because a lot of the recruits we bring in are because we are FBS. If we were suddenly FCS, we would lose recruits to No. Colorado, Montana, Montana St., the Dakotas, etc. We wouldn't be anything special. Sure we would get local kids, but that's about it. IMHO, within 3 years, we would be a good, but not great FCS program, and that's where we would stay.

[VisorHair]

I appreciate your points, however having been around D1 athletics and around Wyoming football in particular, I am not as optimistic to the loyalty of some 18-23 years olds as you may be.

1. Wyoming is the only game in Wyoming. I wouldn't support it (like I do now) any longer, but the next generation would. When you are the only movie theatre, people are going to go watch, like what is showing or not.

A valid point, but you can forget about people driving across the state and up from Fort Collins/Denver for games. The Laramie, Cheyenne, and maybe Casper crowd is about it.

2. We have more money to spend than most (if not all) of the current FCS programs have. Our current AD is good at just floating by - so naturally it would fit. Maintain the budget, and UW would be golden. I am sure they (the AD) has thought about how much less effort they would have to give (and how they wouldn't have to work "as hard").

We have money now, but if we dropped to FCS, our budget would be shredded. We would lose a lot of sponsor $$$, we would lose ticket revenues, we would lose TV money (not a ton, but still). Not to mention the massive loss of money from the Wildcatter suites, we would have to drop prices or it would not be used nearly as much IMO.

3. To say that 52 to 53 players would bail out is an overstatement of epic proportions IMO. Would some transfer out? Certainly. But also...some would transfer in as well. Any player from the FBS ranks could drop down and immediately play at FCS Wyoming (**See previous posts on how FCS programs attract FBS talent**). The pool is deeper there, than the reverse!

This is the big one for me. I am certain that we would lose a large percentage of athletes due to transfer. Seniors might stick around, but junior, sophs, etc...I bet 50%+ of each class would leave. Also, keep in mind that FCS programs only are allowed 63 scholarships as opposed to the 85 of FBS, so that would severely limit recruiting for the first year or two.

4. The level of competition. I don't even want to get into that...but the gap is HUGE. You think the gap is big between the SEC and MWC, you should consider the gaps that exist in the FCS. To be top 20 FCS really isn't anything special.

I agree that the gap between FBS and FCS is huge, HOWEVER, the gap between Wyoming and Alabama is far greater than the gap between Wyoming and North Dakota State. I'm not saying that our current roster couldn't dominate the FCS, my point is that we would not have our current roster, it would be a shell of what it is now.


The biggest reason I feel that this would hurt UW is because a lot of the recruits we bring in are because we are FBS. If we were suddenly FCS, we would lose recruits to No. Colorado, Montana, Montana St., the Dakotas, etc. We wouldn't be anything special. Sure we would get local kids, but that's about it. IMHO, within 3 years, we would be a good, but not great FCS program, and that's where we would stay.

GREAT points, West. Spot on my friend.

[OrediggerPoke]

I agree with WestWyoPoke. And arguing over what guys stay should we move to FCS is stupid, because in four years the quality of recurit we land will drop dramatically.

I can honestly say that if Wyoming were to move to FCS, I would drop my season tickets (and I am a huge football fan!). I believe the attendance drop would be dramatic. I would go to maybe one or two games a year. I would just as assume to spend the day in Golden watching a D2 football game as spending the day in Laramie watching an FCS game. At least I can buy $2 beers at the game in Golden and the weather is better than Laramie.

[McPeachy]

I guess...agree or disagree...none of us can look into the future so we never will really know what, and how, things would happen & transpire. Further, I don't think it has ever been done, in modern times (last 40 years) - a team dropping from FBS to FCS? I know the opposite has happened (Boise State comes to mind).

And hopefully, most importantly, we never have to find out. It would kill me. At that point, I would just go join Ore in Golden for $2 beer, a room at Table Mountain, and watch Mines play Western New Mexico.

[kansasCowboy]

OH COME ON!!!
Where the hell is Sdpokefan when everyone says exactly what I did in an earlier thread?

What? Is there too many to argue with now Sdpokefan?

[MrTitleist]

Montana's Super Bowl will be a few weeks later at Eastern Washington.. playoff seeding at stake in that game. Play-up games are cash grabs. Imagine about 5000 Montana fans in a stadium that holds 8600+. They call it "Washington's Grizzly Stadium."

Hmmm. So the Eastern Washington game has seeding implications - and that is certainly important to their program(s). But the Montana vs. Wyoming game is the marquee game for Montana - meaning it is the game that most of the Griz fans balls tingle from (including your fat hairy women's balls).

Remember not to be that 1/2 and 1/2 guy on 8/30 or we are fighting.

I won't be the 1/2 guy, so you can leave your olde tyme boxing gloves at home.

[McPeachy]

I won't be the 1/2 guy, so you can leave your olde tyme boxing gloves at home.

[MTcowpoke]

Wyo will never go FCS. However, it looks like the FBS is evolving into two divisions. The Big 5 and the rest of you. Nearly half of the Big 5 head football coaches would like for the Big 5 schools to only scdedule each other.

Wyo has road games with Oregon and Michigan State this year. Do either of those teams return to Laramie in the next couple of years? It will probably become more difficult for Wyo to schedule games against Big 5 teams in ensuing years. Wyo will not drop down. But the Big 5 will eventually drop Wyo and the other second tier schools.

[WestWYOPoke]

Wyo will never go FCS. However, it looks like the FBS is evolving into two divisions. The Big 5 and the rest of you. Nearly half of the Big 5 head football coaches would like for the Big 5 schools to only scdedule each other.

Wyo has road games with Oregon and Michigan State this year. Do either of those teams return to Laramie in the next couple of years? It will probably become more difficult for Wyo to schedule games against Big 5 teams in ensuing years. Wyo will not drop down. But the Big 5 will eventually drop Wyo and the other second tier schools.

Oregon is scheduled to come to Laramie in September 2017. The MSU game is a one-and-done.

[OrediggerPoke]

Wyo will never go FCS. However, it looks like the FBS is evolving into two divisions. The Big 5 and the rest of you. Nearly half of the Big 5 head football coaches would like for the Big 5 schools to only scdedule each other.

Wyo has road games with Oregon and Michigan State this year. Do either of those teams return to Laramie in the next couple of years? It will probably become more difficult for Wyo to schedule games against Big 5 teams in ensuing years. Wyo will not drop down. But the Big 5 will eventually drop Wyo and the other second tier schools.

Sep. 16, 2017, Oregon is scheduled to come to Laramie. Hopefully, they will not buy out.
Sep. 1, 2018, Washingston State is scheduled to come to Laramie.
Aug. 31, 2019, Missouri is scheduled to come to Laramie.

In recent years, Texas and Nebraska have also come to Laramie

[laxwyo]

Who the f-word brings up this FCS and Wyoming bull poop all the time? Shut the f-word up! Wyoming is playing an FCS team and could lose. End of story. It's not going to destroy the program if we do

[Hayduke]

5,634 now. It's dropping!

I don't buy that number at all.

Feeling cynical today...

[kansasCowboy]

I don't know, I think it's a legit counter. I've watched it through out the night. It only moves during business hours. And I think people are ready for a new and improved Cowboy football season.

[mrtnt3x]

I ordered my tickets today and was struggling to find good seats for 3 ppl. Additionally, Laramie is sold out in the motel department on Saturday and I checked almost everywhere.

[billings]

Dropping to fcs would instantly cost us 4 million a year with no mwc tv deal or NCAA credits. Zero fbs teams ever playing in laramie. Zero way to maintain the current budget.the loss of games against CSU and Air Force for example would really hurt attendance. Add in lower payouts when traveling to fbs stadiums.

No the next generation would drift off and support the fbs team close to where they live as few stay in laramie or cheyenne as those away would rarely see UW on national TV anymore. in state coverage might be possible if a Casper or Cheyenne channel does the feed but they did not do that before when they could have. The TV quality suffers and distibution severely limited. Montana local channel games are poor in quality on KPAX. when was the last time you saw a North Dakota State home game listed on a TV schedule and they are three time FCS national champs who are invisible outside North Dakota to the casual football fan.

Basketball would be crushed. I could go on and on.

Fcs is a wasteland other then 20 or so programs and those top ones almost all want to be fbs for a reason .

lets just tell Oregon, Missouri, Washington State, Air Force, CSU, Boise State, SDSU, Fresno, and Texas tech that we no longer want them to play in Laramie and we want Souther Utah University, Weber State, Norhern Arizona, and Northern Colorado instead. good god