Decisions. Decisions.

[Larawie]

On the back end of Predictions 2014, we strayed into the Why's and Why Not's of kids decidin' where to continue their athletic and educational careers. I felt we needed a more dedicated area. Here goes.

So, why choose Wyoming? Why go elsewhere? There are so many areas to discuss. The school and educational opportunities. The teams and their coaches. The town. The nightlife. The surroundin' area. Location and ease of access. Talk to me.

[fromolwyoming]

Well, Wyoming is no Stanford or Harvard, but academically, we rank pretty well compared to many programs (including some G5 schools), and at a fraction of the cost, even for out of state students. Not to mention, in the MWC, we're in the top 3 academics wise (AFA coming in first with otherwise only the sheep giving us a run for our money). Also, if students are looking for the small town life but with easy access to a big city if need be, UW is also good with Denver just a few hours away.

And one thing we don't have that most other states do? Gangs. You have the occasional wannabe "gangsta" in high school, but otherwise, none of that here.

[BeaverPoke]

I am totally open to having this discussion, but just because someone might post a reason as to why UW might not be the best fit, they get attacked, and then the Brown and Gold glasses come on for people and they try and discount any valid reason someone might choose to go somewhere besides Wyo.

If we want to have the talk, let's have the talk. Whether what you see is what you wanted to see or not.

[BeaverPoke]

Laramie is a pure college town.
SLC or ABQ are not college towns.

If you are a football player and what you dreamed of is playing a football game, going out to the titty bar then the club with some teammates, go to Utah or NM.

If you are a football player and what you dreamed of is playing a football game, heading out to the fun local bar, or to some friends houses to just kick back, go to a Wyoming or Washington State.

If you dream of being a prima donna cocky wanna-be Terrell Owens, go to the University of Oregon.
If you dream of being in a college town, with everyone IN TOWN knowing your name, wearing your school colors, seeing your team logo on every other flag in town, go to Oregon State or Wyoming.

That's just part of the generals.

Laramie has a lot to offer, but at the same time, I think Laramie could be a lot better. It seems like half the blocks in this town are filled with a super nice looking house, next to a double-wide with a brown yard, next to a another nice place.
Of course this is another topic in its own, but I think Laramie, and the people of Laramie could do more to embrace the University, and quit wanting it to be some rundown podunk town.

But let's get back to UW itself.

Awesome University. But there are also other awesome schools, like Colorado State, and New Mexico.

Do you want to come play college athletics where you can be on ESPN a lot?
If so, you may want to come play hoops at Wyoming. You may want to go play football at Boise State.

Are you here to go to the NBA and win a MWC title?
Larry Shyatt and Scott Duncan are two of the best.

Are you here to go the NFL and win a MWC title?
Well, hate to say it, but it's looking like the team down south might be a little bit closer to that than us.
3 years from now? Hell, I might have been proven wrong and we could have a MWC Title in 3 years, but if you are a recruit, there is no way to know that, unless you have been convinced by the visit itself.

If you are from Denver, and your 4 offers are from CU, CSU, AFA, and Wyo, you will probably break it down like this:
Pac12 vs. MWC?

If the lure of CU being in the Pac12 doesn't win you over, then the other 3 schools are still alive. If it does win you over, well then end of conversation, you're a Buff.

If you give the MWC schools a shot, but don't want to be in the military, then Wyo and CSU are battling CU.
Then it probably gets interesting. CU hates CSU. CSU hates Wyo.Wyo hates CSU. Odds are you either decide yay or nay on CSU, and either decide to become a Ram, or you are left between Wyo and CU.
Of course, at the end of the day, does the Springs, Foco, Boulder, or Laramie feel right for you?
Does playing on a poop team in the Pac12 seem like a better chance to the NFL, and some awesome times in college than some less than to slightly above average MWC teams?
Does the Border War get you fired up?
Do you love the Brown and Gold? Do you hate the Brown and Gold colors?
Growing up, did you already like CSU or CU or Wyo? Did you already dislike CSU or CU or Wyo?

What do you want to major in?
Wyo's business school is pretty awesome, and the engineering isn't bad, but neither is CSU's.

Do the flatirons seem more appealing than the praries up here?

I think it's just too many variables to make a pro's and cons list.

[BeaverPoke]

HighPlainsDrifter and DutchNation said it very well on the other thread.

The recruiter and the personal relationships, along with the opportunity to be had (whatever opportunity you are looking for) is what makes it.

And honestly, that is why I am heading up to Oregon State. The opportunity wasn't here at Wyo for me. The relationships I made with the people I will be working with at OSU is what convinced me eventually.

I think if we have the right kids bringing in recruits on visits, they will learn to love the place (I mean who wouldn't? It's freakin Laramie!)

[OrediggerPoke]

I would say that most high school seniors don't know what they want or prefer, or even the various factors to consider, until they have tried it. It took me actually living in the inner city to fully know that Wyoming was the right place for me (and I grew up here and already loved Wyoming). Most of us now know what we prefer and what we would consider because hindsight is always 20-20.

My best advice to a kid going through a college selection is to go with an open mind, visit as many places as you reasonably can and at least consider your parents' input. No matter where you end up, you will undoubtedly meet some great people. Laramie is a great place and is absolutely unique but so are many other college towns in each of their own way.

As far as the only colleges to avoid, I strongly believe that commuter schools do not and cannot offer the same opportunities as college campuses. Everyone that desires to go to college, should at least experience the college life. We all miss it!

[joshvanklomp]

If Bohl doesn't feel that the kid really wants to play at Wyoming, he's not going to attempt to convince him to change his mind. Just move on to the next prospect.

Every program in the country has reasons you shouldn't attend that program along with the reasons you should. A good coaching staff identifies the recruits who fit the type of players who wants to be at Wyoming for 4 years.

Its not just about putting together a roster full of four- and five-star recruits. Its about getting that mix of guys who are willing to represent the university and the state the right way on and off the football field.

[BeaverPoke]

If Bohl doesn't feel that the kid really wants to play at Wyoming, he's not going to attempt to convince him to change his mind. Just move on to the next prospect.

Every program in the country has reasons you shouldn't attend that program along with the reasons you should. A good coaching staff identifies the recruits who fit the type of players who wants to be at Wyoming for 4 years.

Its not just about putting together a roster full of four- and five-star recruits. Its about getting that mix of guys who are willing to represent the university and the state the right way on and off the football field.

This isnt about what type of players Bohl is recruiting it's about which kids want to come to Wyo.
Because even though Cam Newton isn't the type of player Bohl goes after, if Cam Newton wanted to play for NDSU, Bohl would have found a scolly to offer.

[ragtimejoe1]

Relatively speaking, there are very, very few kids who are high school underclassmen with ambitions to play at Wyoming.

However, reality tends to set in (i.e. not everyone will play at Notre Dame, Michigan, Alabama, etc.) and their ambitions change to playing on a P5 team. In general, if a kid has a P5 offer, we won't be in his vocabulary. Note that is in general and there are certainly exceptions.

Assuming that is 100% true (which obviously it is not 100%), that leaves us with all the kids after 1625 kids are committed to P5 schools (again, assuming P5 always beats G5 and all P5 schools take 25 kids). There are a little more than 1 million young men that play high school football. I would guess that would mean somewhere around 200K-250K Seniors are playing football. That means that we still have access to 99.4% of high school senior football players.

IMO, that is the group we are really talking about when we say recruiting. This group of kids is primarily looking for a landing spot. The main reason they choose WYO over schools, IMO, is 1) the coaches 2) playing time 3) facilities and 4) academics.

Where we are lacking is branding, but hopefully, Bohl creates a Wyoming brand that we can sell recruits. Additionally, it really helps if you have a great talent evaluator to pick out the kids that are 1 or no star recruits out of high school but become 3 star or better players. In fact, because only 0.6% of the kids are taken by the P5, I would argue that talent evaluator is the most important because there are bound to be lots of diamonds in the remaining 99.4%.

[joshvanklomp]

This isnt about what type of players Bohl is recruiting it's about which kids want to come to Wyo.
Because even though Cam Newton isn't the type of player Bohl goes after, if Cam Newton wanted to play for NDSU, Bohl would have found a scolly to offer.

But since Bohl is only going to recruit kids who want to come to Wyoming, yes it is about the kids he's recruiting.

People seem to be upset about recruiting "FCS players", but at this stage of our program's development, those are the type of players willing to invest the time at Wyoming. As the program gets better and Bohl starts making his mark on this program, the "quality" of the type of recruits we're getting will increase.

The foundation of the recruiting base will always be more regional: Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas and of course Wyoming.

From there, its about finding the players who are willing to put in the work necessary to be great. We probably won't get a lot of five-star athletes, but the staff's bread and butter will be players they can develop into five-star-quality football players if they're willing to put the time in.

[BeaverPoke]

This isnt about what type of players Bohl is recruiting it's about which kids want to come to Wyo.
Because even though Cam Newton isn't the type of player Bohl goes after, if Cam Newton wanted to play for NDSU, Bohl would have found a scolly to offer.

But since Bohl is only going to recruit kids who want to come to Wyoming, yes it is about the kids he's recruiting.

People seem to be upset about recruiting "FCS players", but at this stage of our program's development, those are the type of players willing to invest the time at Wyoming. As the program gets better and Bohl starts making his mark on this program, the "quality" of the type of recruits we're getting will increase.

The foundation of the recruiting base will always be more regional: Colorado, Nebraska, Kansas and of course Wyoming.

From there, its about finding the players who are willing to put in the work necessary to be great. We probably won't get a lot of five-star athletes, but the staff's bread and butter will be players they can develop into five-star-quality football players if they're willing to put the time in.

You aren't hearing me.

You are saying the same thing that we have been saying since Bohl got hired: We are going to get hard nosed blue collar athletes and develop them.
Yes we know. We have heard it over and over.

You are talking about the school going after the kid, we are talking about the kid going to the school.

We are talking about what makes kids want to come to Wyo whether its for hoops or football, or what makes kids choose other schools. Not what type of kid Bohl is willing to offer.

A kid choosing a different school over Wyo because of a specific major offered, or because the athlete wanted to stay close to home, etc. has nothing to do with Bohl developing kids.
It's assumed that if someone turned down Wyo, then Bohl offered them in the first place. So whether they choose Wyo or CSU or CU or Oregon, they are already Bohls type of kid.

[joshvanklomp]

You aren't hearing me.

You are saying the same thing that we have been saying since Bohl got hired: We are going to get hard nosed blue collar athletes and develop them.
Yes we know. We have heard it over and over.

And that's why they'll come.

They want to be developed. They want to be coached. They want to be part of a program soon to be on the rise. They aren't going to commit because of flashy uniforms or a big-celebrity lifestyle. Wyoming will never get that type of athlete, nor should they put it into their recruiting pitch.

[BeaverPoke]

You aren't hearing me.

You are saying the same thing that we have been saying since Bohl got hired: We are going to get hard nosed blue collar athletes and develop them.
Yes we know. We have heard it over and over.

And that's why they'll come.

They want to be developed. They want to be coached. They want to be part of a program soon to be on the rise. They aren't going to commit because of flashy uniforms or a big-celebrity lifestyle. Wyoming will never get that type of athlete, nor should they put it into their recruiting pitch.

Man oh man.

Do you think that Bohl is better than Nick Saban?

The way you are talking is as if Bohl will only offer to the most blue collar hard working kids in the world who he knows will commit to Wyo.
As if Bohl is landing 100% of the kids he offers.
Ridiculous.
You think Bohl is the only coach that wants hard working kids?
What happens when Bohl and McElwain offer the same kid and that kid chooses CSU?
Where is your little pep-talk then?
What we are trying to figure out in this thread, is why that kid picked McElwain and CSU over Bohl and UW?

[Asmodeanreborn]

You aren't hearing me.

You are saying the same thing that we have been saying since Bohl got hired: We are going to get hard nosed blue collar athletes and develop them.
Yes we know. We have heard it over and over.

And that's why they'll come.

They want to be developed. They want to be coached. They want to be part of a program soon to be on the rise. They aren't going to commit because of flashy uniforms or a big-celebrity lifestyle. Wyoming will never get that type of athlete, nor should they put it into their recruiting pitch.

Man oh man.

Do you think that Bohl is better than Nick Saban?

The way you are talking is as if Bohl will only offer to the most blue collar hard working kids in the world who he knows will commit to Wyo.
As if Bohl is landing 100% of the kids he offers.
Ridiculous.
You think Bohl is the only coach that wants hard working kids?
What happens when Bohl and McElwain offer the same kid and that kid chooses CSU?
Where is your little pep-talk then?
What we are trying to figure out in this thread, is why that kid picked McElwain and CSU over Bohl and UW?

You seriously sound like you're arguing just to argue. Nobody thinks Bohl's going to get every single kid he's interested in, but the exact blue collar kids other people are talking about are not the ones choosing CSU - if anything, they're more likely to choose Nebraska. To many of them, Fort Collins is an attraction, a distraction, and not at all the temporary "home" that Laramie can be.

In Laramie you're far less likely to find distractions that take you away from football, and while Fort Collins isn't exactly Las Vegas, there are so many more ways to get in trouble there (and no, it's not impossible to do dumb things in Laramie).

Are there many kids we'll fight CSU for? No doubt. Are there a bunch of kids who are interested in the UW brand who will barely even consider CSU? Yep. Are the kids in the second group likely to fall under the hard-nosed blue collar subset of recruits, who are also attracted to being labeled "Cowboy Tough?" Yep.

[BeaverPoke]

You seriously sound like you're arguing just to argue. Nobody thinks Bohl's going to get every single kid he's interested in, but the exact blue collar kids other people are talking about are not the ones choosing CSU - if anything, they're more likely to choose Nebraska. To many of them, Fort Collins is an attraction, a distraction, and not at all the temporary "home" that Laramie can be.

In Laramie you're far less likely to find distractions that take you away from football, and while Fort Collins isn't exactly Las Vegas, there are so many more ways to get in trouble there (and no, it's not impossible to do dumb things in Laramie).

Are there many kids we'll fight CSU for? No doubt. Are there a bunch of kids who are interested in the UW brand who will barely even consider CSU? Yep. Are the kids in the second group likely to fall under the hard-nosed blue collar subset of recruits, who are also attracted to being labeled "Cowboy Tough?" Yep.

I used CSU as an example, not the only possible school that we would be competing with.

Put it this way: A kid has 2 FBS offers. 1 is Utah State. 1 is Wyoming.

Say the kid picks Utah State.
Why?

Did he like Logan more?
Does he think the Aggies have a better program??

Say the kid picks Wyoming.
Why?
Did he like Bohl more?
Does he think he can go to the NFL through Laramie easier than Logan?

It's not arguing to just argue. It's not about what kind of kid Bohl is recruiting.
This is about why a kid made his decision to either come to UW or not come to UW.

It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

And fyi...I'm sure there has been plenty of blue collar kids who chose CSU over Wyoming.

[ragtimejoe1]

When asking 150 of the top recruits, ESPN found that "Highest on the list of priorities were relationships, chemistry and a family feel among the current players and coaches, in addition to strong academic support."

With that group, I think it goes unstated the highest priority was a big-time program.

Still, I would think those same priorities apply to kids choosing between G5 schools. Why one kid will feel more comfortable with Bohl and Laramie vs. other schools is like asking why someone fell for their wife or girlfriend over a similarly looking stranger.

Bottom line is that we need a brand in Laramie that recruits can identify with. Despite all the bs rhetoric spewed, our only brand right now is a losing brand. I believe Bohl will change that and create a new brand and identity. Administrative changes would also help.

[BeaverPoke]

With that group, I think it goes unstated the highest priority was a big-time program.


Bottom line is that we need a brand in Laramie that recruits can identify with. Despite all the bs rhetoric spewed, our only brand right now is a losing brand. I believe Bohl will change that and create a new brand and identity. Administrative changes would also help.

I think those two things are what matters.

The program. A winning program.
Not a program that will win in 3 years unless the coaches really did a bang up job on selling the same crap every coach does.

[jessejames02]

Here are reasons why an athlete chooses WYO:

1-They received an offer and the rest of the offers were FCS or put them on the bench until their senior year.

2-They have a good connection with a recruiter.

That's it.

I loved living in Laramie, and UW is a good school, but there are at most a handful of less desirable D1 locations to spend your winter. There's a reason enrollment at UW is about half of most MWC schools. Only Air Force has fewer and those admission standards are a lot higher.

It's certainly not because of our winning tradition.

[BeaverPoke]

Here are reasons why an athlete chooses WYO:

1-They received an offer and the rest of the offers were FCS or put them on the bench until their senior year.

2-They have a good connection with a recruiter.

That's it.

I loved living in Laramie, and UW is a good school, but there are at most a handful of less desirable D1 locations to spend your winter. There's a reason enrollment at UW is about half of most MWC schools. Only Air Force has fewer and those admission standards are a lot higher.

It's certainly not because of our winning tradition.

Sadly, I think you nailed it.

I would like to add another point:

New coaches every 5 years or so.
1 to 3 recruiting classes of new athletes that totally buy into the new system.

ACS, Shamiel Gary, Alvester Alexander, Brett Smith, etc.

Now, look at the amount of kids that are choosing Wyo to Bohl.

Bohl is looking like things are going to be good, but then again, things were looking good before Glenn and DC had ever coached a game as well.

[jessejames02]

No doubt Bohl was a great hire. I imagine UW can beat a lot of teams regularly with the top tier of FCS recruits and a great coach.