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laxwyo wrote:You can be knocked out without getting a concussion
When dealing with head trauma, No you can't. According to the Zurich guidelines (gold standard for concussion policy), ANY loss of consciousness, even if only for a second or two, is a concussion. It's probably the only one concrete, measurable guideline for what is a concussion.
You can have a concussion without loss of consciousness, but you can't have LOC without having a concussion. (Except of course for lack of circulation to the brain, which definitely didn't happen here.)
I just read that Zurich thing and your are wrong. Loss of consciousness is not an immediate diagnosable concussion but just another symptom in diagnosing one. However, it's a very easy symptom to recognize as opposed to the repeated hits that don't raise flags. Getting knocked out is a definite red flag
Fair enough, Zurich did not come out and say something as black and white as I put in my previous post. However, they did note that "Although published findings in concussion describe LOC associated with specific, early cognitive deficits, it has not been noted as a measure of injury severity". Early cognitive deficits doesn't exactly translate to concussion, but it's not too far off.
Also, using the guidelines set by Dr. Bob Cantu, an expert in concussion research and the guy that the NFL calls when they need to know more about concussions, a LOC is definitely a concussion. This can be seen by his old grading standard of concussions where a Grade I concussion is mild and a Grade II or III concussion is one where a LOC is present and severity depends on other compounding symptoms. Now Cantu no longer uses that scale because current research is going away from grading severity of concussion, but the point I'm trying to make is clear, in the mind of one of, if not the, most prominent concussion researcher in the United States, a LOC = concussion.
All research and formal guidelines aside, if you ask any concussion researcher, collegiate team physician or athletic trainer in the country if a LOC = concussion, a resounding majority will tell you yes. To put it simply, a concussion is an injury to the brain where normal cognitive functioning is interrupted or impaired. Is it normal functioning for a brain, upon direct trauma, to "reboot" resulting in an LOC...no.
With the recent emphasis on concussions, it doesn't surprise me that the threshold for what is considered a concussion has been downgraded. I do believe that removal from the game should be standard for LOC.
As someone who has had multiple concussions and got told I couldn't play contact sports anymore my senior year of high school, loss of consciousness is a concussion no matter what. Every time there is LOC it is a concussion but you don't have to lose it to have a concussion. As far as letting players back in sometimes it is hard to tell immediately after, my first concussion was severe and I still have post concussive disorder 6 years later, but I didn't know I had a concussion until over 3 hours after the incident occurred.
concussion: a traumatic brain injury that alters the way your brain functions.
If you are saying that losing consciousness is a normal brain function, you need to get yours checked on it's functioning as well.
With your definition, bonking your head and seeing stars for a second would be a concussion.
Possibly, actually. In contact sports like boxing, MMA, kickboxing, etc, that's called "getting rocked". You're not knocked out, but you took a blow to the head that affected you quite a bit.
But getting knocked out? That's a concussion, straight up.
TBH I think any contact sport should be required to have a neurologist on the sideline for proper testing. Think about it from an MMA or Boxing stand point. Someone gets knocked out the fight is over, they don't get the chance to go to the sideline and tell someone they are fine to put them back in.
Any athlete is ALWAYS going to say I'm fine, Even if they know they aren't they will say it. Half of them have no idea if they are fine or not and don't realize the long term issues that will accompany frequent concussions.
This is two years in a row people we have seen flat out knocked out cold have been put back in the game. Someone needs to question the ethics involved it's not safe for the kids.
Wyo2dal wrote:TBH I think any contact sport should be required to have a neurologist on the sideline for proper testing. Think about it from an MMA or Boxing stand point. Someone gets knocked out the fight is over, they don't get the chance to go to the sideline and tell someone they are fine to put them back in.
Any athlete is ALWAYS going to say I'm fine, Even if they know they aren't they will say it. Half of them have no idea if they are fine or not and don't realize the long term issues that will accompany frequent concussions.
This is two years in a row people we have seen flat out knocked out cold have been put back in the game. Someone needs to question the ethics involved it's not safe for the kids.
into this discussion.
