CSU is kicking our butt...

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LawPoke
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Word out of Ft. Collins is that the President will be recommending a new stadium for the Sheep to the Board of Regents or whatever they are called down south. If the Big XII gets left out of the playoff and if one of the reasons is thought to tie to a lack of a conference championship game, I would not be surprised to see "CSU to the Big XII" start to take hold. I would also not be surprised to see them nab Boise or someone else. CSU is doubling down on athletics and are potent in football, basketball, women's basketball and volleyball. To me, it is becoming an eerily similar circumstance to the precursors that lead Utah to leave - granted in a much less volatile environment in college football.

My concern is that the ask to build UW will come when coal is faltering, natural gas is at rock bottom and oil is tanking (no pun intended). Do we have institutional relationships established to maintain, no less build, athletics and the broader University? There are vacancies all over the place in the leadership of the University, not the least of which persists in the President's Office. We have few permanent deans. CSU, on the other hand, is building (in terms of the physical plant and academic front) in what should have been a recessionary period for them, with declining help from the state. Largely, Wyoming has kept pace with state derived mineral revenues, but what happens when they taper? With our negative nellie Legislature and UW's posture relative to the Legislature (not overly great), they will find other places to put the money. Unless there is a compelling story at UW, there is little to say "invest in us, we have our crap together."

So here are my thoughts:

(1) start a true President search yesterday and find someone that looks at the University holistically
(2) start to hire deans and pay them
(3) retain quality faculty (have a read of WyoFile's article on the loss of faculty and you should have concern)
(4) finish the AA the right way
(5) give Bohl what he needs for training table, study space, training, etc.
(6) quit polishing the turd that is War Memorial Stadium
(7) continue to invest in men's basketball, women's basketball, wrestling, and volleyball

As to my point #6, I think that UW made a potentially fatal mistake when they fixed the upper decks of the War several years ago as the concrete was literally falling apart. They should have noted that the facility was a wreck. Instead, they invested millions there, added more millions onto the facade on the east side with the Wildcatter and painted the other press box. We added a couple more million replacing the turf. Meanwhile, my brother in law tells me that the facilities folks literally had to stay at the War until 4:00 in the morning after the BSU game to "drain" the crappers (I think from the Press Boxes). The whole west side is a wreck. The video boards need replaced. Concessions, even on the east side, are subpar. The press box on the west side needs replaced.

We all talk about what improvements need to be made to the War - I say, start with everything but the Wildcatter and the turf. Every other change that has been made has been functional lipstick on a pig. Unfortunately, we are now in over $50 or so million in sunk costs (maybe a bit shy of that) and we still have a facility that is failing in many, many ways. The AA renovation is a true renovation - and to a facility that wasn't over 50 years old that was more amenable to a facelift. The "facelifts" to the War are the equivalent of many of Phyllis Diller's surgeries...

I actually am of double mind on the CSU stadium - if we respond, I love it. If we continue to languish in mediocrity and continue to accept it, we should just move our football program to FCS and triple down on basketball...because we will be there soon enough if only through passive neglect and apathy.

Which brings me back to where I started - CSU is going to build an on campus stadium. They will retain their coach and they will continue to build. When I asked DC about the possibility of a new CSU stadium several years ago - he said he hoped they would go forward as they would go broke paying for it. I think that was the wrong answer and reflective of the traditional Wyoming pessimism that I have grown to despise. The question is, will we ever find the right answer?
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Boise would go long before CSU, But CSU is kicking the poop out of us.
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McPeachy
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Good post - I think you are spot on. And I have always felt the same way. Essentially UW has no vision, and poor leadership - paired with fan apathy and low expectations. That is a recipe for death.

CSewe hedged everything on athletics being the front porch of their poop assed university...and it worked and is working. Meanwhile, we have a cool gateway center, across the street from a f-word Arby's and a dilapidated < 1/4 block of run down gas-station poop eyesore (that by the way is for sale for $2,000,000).
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LanderPoke
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The sad thing about this whole situation is athletics, not academics, have become the "face" of universities, which is inherently wrong. A university's appeal (outside of a few private institutions) and perceived worth is largely tied to athletics. Boise, Utah, TCU, now CSU and others that have made the leap to the P5 figured this out two decades ago. As much as we may not like it the whole fate of the University rests on our athletics and its success. The economic benefits, to the University and the community of Laramie, of having top-tier athletics cannot be measured. We need to realize this and go all out to keep pace with CSU. We must or Wyoming athletics will certainly perish and the University of Wyoming will never reach its full potential.
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VisorHair
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The university as a whole is in the process of making 2 more projects totaling $90M a reality which in all honesty are next level university stuff. (Not including phase 2 of the AA) The RAC project is a necessary build not just for fb but for athletics as a whole as it will encompass the new student-athlete meal plan stuff and will fill up that entire end zone. It will total close to $50M. Then the engineering college, which the state is finally realizing the importance of it and how special it can be. They will be building an "engineering campus" per-say. This project will total around $40M. There are great things happening on campus.. Even without a great president, campus is taking the next step. This is an exciting time for Wyoming and its future.
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Seriously? CSU might build a stadium, but they are broke. I'm curious how the funding will shake out. But as for them kicking our butts? They've beat us two years in a row and have dreams of building a stadium. What have we done....built a regulation size IPF (compared to 70 yards), have remodeled the War (yes work still needs to be done, but it is a nice stadium), are in the process of upgrading the AA (as opposed to Moby). We're whining because CSU realizes they are being left behind and are doing what they need. They have a 10-1 football team, but are barely drawing better crowds than us.

All our sports are trending upward. Enjoy the ride fellas. I realize it has been a long time, but the whining is, well whining.

I agree on finding new leadership, but I think we are barking up the wrong tree.
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"CSU has nothing to offer to the Big12"---people who said Utah has nothing to offer the Pac10.

The Big12 would take Boise and CSU if they wanted them.
If they want 2 more teams and want the Colorado market back, along with the Boise market Boise (fans are everywhere people), they can get them.
If you ever need to laugh, just remember there was some idiot who wanted Bohl fired after 2 seasons.
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McPeachy
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VisorHair wrote:The university as a whole is in the process of making 2 more projects totaling $90M a reality which in all honesty are next level university stuff. (Not including phase 2 of the AA) The RAC project is a necessary build not just for fb but for athletics as a whole as it will encompass the new student-athlete meal plan stuff and will fill up that entire end zone. It will total close to $50M. Then the engineering college, which the state is finally realizing the importance of it and how special it can be. They will be building an "engineering campus" per-say. This project will total around $40M. There are great things happening on campus.. Even without a great president, campus is taking the next step. This is an exciting time for Wyoming and its future.
Although I think both those things are really neat-o, they are small time compared to our current peers (most notably CSewe). The RAC project has a max budget of $40 million - which is great, I agree...but that $40 million doesn't bring UW athletics to a new level - it is patchwork. Part of it is fixing a $15 million dollar mistake.

The College of Engineering needed sorely to take steps in a new direction (as did the College of Business most recently), as both had fallen behind at an unbelievable pace. The College of Business did take some steps necessary obviously with the new building, but the leadership there since Brent left...has been...um...non existent. Hope the College of Engineering is taking notes.
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ragtimejoe1
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CSU is broke? When Burman took over, our athletic budget was 1 million more than theirs. CSU athletic budged now exceeds ours by 5-6 million.

CSU is eclipsing us.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
LawPoke
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I have heard about the RAC project and it is exciting. I am a little more skeptical of the Engineering build - not that it won't happen, but what it will be at the end. Either way, no doubt, these projects will be wonderful.

This said, my concern is not that we don't have great facilities (with the exception of the War, thus my diatribe). It is that we are losing the minds and personalities in them. We struggle to attract new ones (see nearly every dean search). We need a President that is strong and has a vision and is LASER focused (to steal a Bohlism) on achieving the vision. We need to have an institution that exudes a sense that we are the place to be - not just that we have some great buildings to go to class in. My view is that we need an absurd statement and vision to trigger action - like Graham had the audacity to mutter at CSU with the on campus hundreds of millions of dollars worth of stadium. We need a President that challenges Wyoming - and not just the campus, but the state. Something along the lines of pushing a vision that says we will achieve AAU status (I have no idea what the means, but it is a high bar by all accounts) or that we will be Tier I in x,y and z...and gets the cash to go hire the deans and profs to make it real, with the aim of transforming the state. In short, we have to start to fill these pretty buildings with people that can actually run the fancy widgets we are buying that are apparently state of the art. My view is that the University should be THE institution to say - "what we are today and what we have today is not good enough, we can and will do better." I remember all too well the bumper sticker "give us another boom, we won't screw it up the next time..." Well, we are at the next time and we are doing a little better, but not much. Right now, outside of Ben Blalock and the Foundation, we don't have anyone, other than maybe Larry Shyatt and Craig Bohl, saying such things.

We need a ludicrous but incrementally achievable goal to motivate us or else we will just become another beige university that blends in with the rest...or, at worst, is the crown jewel of the community college system.
ragtimejoe1
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JimmyDimes wrote:Seriously? CSU might build a stadium, but they are broke. I'm curious how the funding will shake out. But as for them kicking our butts? They've beat us two years in a row and have dreams of building a stadium. What have we done....built a regulation size IPF (compared to 70 yards), have remodeled the War (yes work still needs to be done, but it is a nice stadium), are in the process of upgrading the AA (as opposed to Moby). We're whining because CSU realizes they are being left behind and are doing what they need. They have a 10-1 football team, but are barely drawing better crowds than us.

All our sports are trending upward. Enjoy the ride fellas. I realize it has been a long time, but the whining is, well whining.

I agree on finding new leadership, but I think we are barking up the wrong tree.
And CSU was able to rise from the ashes and are in the Access slot talks along with being a T25 program. Sorry, I put more stock in results than a bunch of measuring contests between facilities.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
JimmyDimes
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ragtimejoe1 wrote:CSU is broke? When Burman took over, our athletic budget was 1 million more than theirs. CSU athletic budged now exceeds ours by 5-6 million.

CSU is eclipsing us.
Is that going to buy them a stadium? They are leveraged with their other upgrades (IPF) and will need to take out bonds to finance any new stadium they might build

As a whole, CSU is broke.
ragtimejoe1
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JimmyDimes wrote:
ragtimejoe1 wrote:CSU is broke? When Burman took over, our athletic budget was 1 million more than theirs. CSU athletic budged now exceeds ours by 5-6 million.

CSU is eclipsing us.
Is that going to buy them a stadium? They are leveraged with their other upgrades (IPF) and will need to take out bonds to finance any new stadium they might build

As a whole, CSU is broke.
Yet they somehow managed to eclipse us on budgets. They seem to be focused on improving athletics. I do not have intricate details of CSU finances and not nearly enough knowledge of the fine details of their current and future financials to know what they can and can't afford. I will have to defer to you on that.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
ragtimejoe1
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No plan will do this to you.
“It makes sense that we’re not keeping up with our counterparts as far as spending," Burman said. "When you take a million dollars out of your budget, you’re going backwards.
If the plan to get money from the State fails?
"This market won’t sustain, by itself, a Division I athletics program without the state of Wyoming and the Legislature.”
One Independent Committee (of Sports Professionals) already made several observations. Two of which are:
"It is not a secret that UW has real challenges that influence competitiveness in athletics. However, there appears to be an attitude that UW Athletics has simply accepted this as the reality of today’s world instead of focusing on improvement."
And..
Another of the consultants' recommendations proposed that the athletics program re-brand itself, changing the way it presents itself to recruits and fans nationally, notably via uniforms and advertising campaigns.
Cowboy tough, though, right?

http://trib.com/sports/college/wyoming/ ... 626d2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
LawPoke
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JimmyDimes wrote:
ragtimejoe1 wrote:CSU is broke? When Burman took over, our athletic budget was 1 million more than theirs. CSU athletic budged now exceeds ours by 5-6 million.

CSU is eclipsing us.
Is that going to buy them a stadium? They are leveraged with their other upgrades (IPF) and will need to take out bonds to finance any new stadium they might build

As a whole, CSU is broke.
I think they are leveraged, but I think they have some big money backers that will make it work. If they get to a P5 conference, which they are clearly angling for, they absolutely can make it work with $40-50 million coming in every year from TV alone.

My concern is not really about CSU - it is with UW. We have spent a ton of money - without having to leverage anything, and yet we continue to accept mediocrity and don't have a clue how to drive our new Ferrari...and the guys that did have a clue have left. Not to be too negative, sometimes it seems that we are like the Clampets...we get rich, move into better digs and still think like we are in the sticks...filling the swimming pool with trout so we have something to fish for like we did in the hills. We build but look backwards for clues how to deploy our new stuff.
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LawPoke wrote:
JimmyDimes wrote:
ragtimejoe1 wrote:CSU is broke? When Burman took over, our athletic budget was 1 million more than theirs. CSU athletic budged now exceeds ours by 5-6 million.

CSU is eclipsing us.
Is that going to buy them a stadium? They are leveraged with their other upgrades (IPF) and will need to take out bonds to finance any new stadium they might build

As a whole, CSU is broke.
I think they are leveraged, but I think they have some big money backers that will make it work. If they get to a P5 conference, which they are clearly angling for, they absolutely can make it work with $40-50 million coming in every year from TV alone.

My concern is not really about CSU - it is with UW. We have spent a ton of money - without having to leverage anything, and yet we continue to accept mediocrity and don't have a clue how to drive our new Ferrari...and the guys that did have a clue have left. Not to be too negative, sometimes it seems that we are like the Clampets...we get rich, move into better digs and still think like we are in the sticks...filling the swimming pool with trout so we have something to fish for like we did in the hills. We build but look backwards for clues how to deploy our new stuff.
I agree with everything you posted except for the part where you said we accept mediocrity. Mediocrity is our unrealistic goal.

2 bowl wins in the last 47 years is not mediocre, that's just terible.
If you ever need to laugh, just remember there was some idiot who wanted Bohl fired after 2 seasons.
LawPoke
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BeaverPoke wrote:
LawPoke wrote:
JimmyDimes wrote:
ragtimejoe1 wrote:CSU is broke? When Burman took over, our athletic budget was 1 million more than theirs. CSU athletic budged now exceeds ours by 5-6 million.

CSU is eclipsing us.
Is that going to buy them a stadium? They are leveraged with their other upgrades (IPF) and will need to take out bonds to finance any new stadium they might build

As a whole, CSU is broke.
I think they are leveraged, but I think they have some big money backers that will make it work. If they get to a P5 conference, which they are clearly angling for, they absolutely can make it work with $40-50 million coming in every year from TV alone.

My concern is not really about CSU - it is with UW. We have spent a ton of money - without having to leverage anything, and yet we continue to accept mediocrity and don't have a clue how to drive our new Ferrari...and the guys that did have a clue have left. Not to be too negative, sometimes it seems that we are like the Clampets...we get rich, move into better digs and still think like we are in the sticks...filling the swimming pool with trout so we have something to fish for like we did in the hills. We build but look backwards for clues how to deploy our new stuff.
I agree with everything you posted except for the part where you said we accept mediocrity. Mediocrity is our unrealistic goal.

2 bowl wins in the last 47 years is not mediocre, that's just terible.
Touche', sir, touche'.

We have everything - or at least nearly everything - in place to be great. Let's just be great. Starting now. I don't want to be in a position where we are only able to crow about the fact that our IPF is 140 yards long, while CSU's is 70. We need to be looking for the next place to wax those sorry bastards...starting on the volleyball and basketball hardwood.
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Our vision should be excellence (or greatness), and not only in athletics either.
You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage him/her.
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J-Rod
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CSU could barely get 23K to show up in the best season they'll ever have. That stadium might not happen to begin with, and the Big XII is a pipe dream for anyone west of Texas.
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LanderPoke
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J-Rod wrote:CSU could barely get 23K to show up in the best season they'll ever have. That stadium might not happen to begin with, and the Big XII is a pipe dream for anyone west of Texas.
I hope you are right.
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