Attendance under 20K

[LanderPoke]

We are capable of competing just fine in the MWC. That is the realistic goal. It's all about conference championships for us.

[WestWYOPoke]

I can see why the Beav has suddenly become more...um...objective?? Or downright pessimistic. Same thing happened to me after I left UW and went to grad school. When you start seeing how things are run at a P5 school, and the size of the crowds, and the gameday atmosphere, and the national exposure, etc, etc. you start to get an inferiority complex with everything related to Wyoming. You start to wonder, how can we ever compete.

We can't.

Well, not in football, or most other sports.

There's some chance, I suppose, to compete as a semi-regular top 25 team in men's basketball, if we're willing to just flat-out shift our resources and emphasis from football to that.

I don't know enough about wrestling, which is doing well, to know if it would work there too.

I would say that wrestling is actually Wyoming's BEST chance to be a consistent Top 25 program. This can be attributed to our wrestling history which is actually fairly successful and the fact that there aren't a ton of D1 wrestling programs. Now I'm not sure if wrestling at UW is fully funded, it certainly should be if it isn't. If it is, that means we get 9.9 scholarships to dole out to create a team of 20-30 athletes. Given our geographic isolation (no other dominant programs between Boise and Nebraska) we should have a stranglehold on recruiting in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and maybe New Mexico, most of which are states with good high school wrestling backgrounds. Now it's going to be tough to compete with the Big Ten schools, but I think Branch certainly has UW on the right track to give it a shot.

I know we've had excellent athletes in Swimming/Diving and Track and Field but, again, I don't know the landscape well enough to even guess if emphasis there would let us compete nationally.

I am intrigued to see how good UW could be when/if we finally get the swimming pool renovated. Our team is pretty good right now considering the ancient facilities they have to use. As for track and field and cross country, I would love to see UW start competing at a higher level in cross country similar to Adams State and Western State do at the D2 level. Those schools are perennial national contenders because they train at 7000+ feet (both are actually higher than Laramie). If they use that training advantage, why can't we??

[BeaverPoke]

I remember playing UTEP for the title game in Laramie. It was a nice day for November and the place was packed. I think the year was either 1987 or 1988.

It was 1988 and CBS televised the game as well.

Dude, the times have changed.

[JimmyDimes]

I can see why the Beav has suddenly become more...um...objective?? Or downright pessimistic. Same thing happened to me after I left UW and went to grad school. When you start seeing how things are run at a P5 school, and the size of the crowds, and the gameday atmosphere, and the national exposure, etc, etc. you start to get an inferiority complex with everything related to Wyoming. You start to wonder, how can we ever compete.

We can't.

Well, not in football, or most other sports.

There's some chance, I suppose, to compete as a semi-regular top 25 team in men's basketball, if we're willing to just flat-out shift our resources and emphasis from football to that.

I don't know enough about wrestling, which is doing well, to know if it would work there too.

I know we've had excellent athletes in Swimming/Diving and Track and Field but, again, I don't know the landscape well enough to even guess if emphasis there would let us compete nationally.

What the f-word are you talking about. Football will be back. The only decade in which Wyoming hasn't won a conference title in football was 2000 to 2010. To put that in perspective, Utah went 40 years between titles....thank the Olympics and Urban Meyer. Some program like UNM are 50 plus years from their most recent football title. Basketball is improving....receiving votes and the top half of the conference. Wrestling top 25. All other teams normally finish in top half of conference...not always but normally.

Tell us what most means to you?

To be honest, this board is turning into a big pile of poop. Too many negative Nancy's trying to compare our current state to the SEC. We are in a conference of peers institutions with similar traits. We are aligned with schools that aren't in heavily populated areas with the exception of SDSU and maybe UNLV. You want bigger crowds than say 30K....then make some babies.

Wyoming travels well, but has a small local population to pull from. Is this news to some of you knuckleheads?

Peace out!!

[LanderPoke]

I can see why the Beav has suddenly become more...um...objective?? Or downright pessimistic. Same thing happened to me after I left UW and went to grad school. When you start seeing how things are run at a P5 school, and the size of the crowds, and the gameday atmosphere, and the national exposure, etc, etc. you start to get an inferiority complex with everything related to Wyoming. You start to wonder, how can we ever compete.

We can't.

Well, not in football, or most other sports.

There's some chance, I suppose, to compete as a semi-regular top 25 team in men's basketball, if we're willing to just flat-out shift our resources and emphasis from football to that.

I don't know enough about wrestling, which is doing well, to know if it would work there too.

I know we've had excellent athletes in Swimming/Diving and Track and Field but, again, I don't know the landscape well enough to even guess if emphasis there would let us compete nationally.

What the f-word are you talking about. Football will be back. The only decade in which Wyoming hasn't won a conference title in football was 2000 to 2010. To put that in perspective, Utah went 40 years between titles....thank the Olympics and Urban Meyer. Some program like UNM are 50 plus years from their most recent football title. Basketball is improving....receiving votes and the top half of the conference. Wrestling top 25. All other teams normally finish in top half of conference...not always but normally.

Tell us what most means to you?

To be honest, this board is turning into a big pile of poop. Too many negative Nancy's trying to compare our current state to the SEC. We are in a conference of peers institutions with similar traits. We are aligned with schools that aren't in heavily populated areas with the exception of SDSU and maybe UNLV. You want bigger crowds than say 30K....then make some babies.

Wyoming travels well, but has a small local population to pull from. Is this news to some of you knuckleheads?

Peace out!!

+1

Dimes, you are one of the most logical thinkers on here.

[SnowyRange]

What the f-word are you talking about. Football will be back. The only decade in which Wyoming hasn't won a conference title in football was 2000 to 2010. To put that in perspective, Utah went 40 years between titles....thank the Olympics and Urban Meyer. Some program like UNM are 50 plus years from their most recent football title. Basketball is improving....receiving votes and the top half of the conference. Wrestling top 25. All other teams normally finish in top half of conference...not always but normally.

Tell us what most means to you?

To be honest, this board is turning into a big pile of poop. Too many negative Nancy's trying to compare our current state to the SEC. We are in a conference of peers institutions with similar traits. We are aligned with schools that aren't in heavily populated areas with the exception of SDSU and maybe UNLV. You want bigger crowds than say 30K....then make some babies.

Wyoming travels well, but has a small local population to pull from. Is this news to some of you knuckleheads?

Either you don't bother to read, or cannot comprehend what you read, or need Ritalin. Maybe all three.

In any event, I was responding to post wondering about how we compete with the Power 5 conferences. My answer is that we won't in football, but maybe we can in a few other sports.

I suppose there is one more possibility: maybe you did understand that and simply think that finishing in the top half of the MWC in football is competing with the Power 5 conferences. If that is your delusion...well...godspeed to you, good sir!

[Cuttslam]

Also keep in mind that Wyoming has a relatively small percentage -- I think only three states are lower -- of people living here who were also born in the state.

That means that on top of our tiny population, we just don't have many who were born and raised here...and youth is the time when diehard allegiances to college teams are formed.

That's because anybody with any means gets the f-word out as soon as they can, and mostly don't look back. I was a big exception. I didn't leave until I was in my late 30s.

Ha, I left at the ripe old age of 20. Went down to ASU to hang with friends for spring break and transfered that fall.

Oh, OK?? A lot of people have the means to gtfo of Wyoming if they want. Most live here because they love Wyoming and all it offers. Why do you two even root for UW, anyway? Why don't you root for CU and ASU cuz Colorado and Arizona are so much better in your minds?

I do, I root for ASU and love U of A hoop and I have ASU hoop season
tickets in the cheap seats but usually always sit in the lower bowl WITHOUT being hassled.

So do you have any allegiance to Wyoming or are you just a troll?

A troll? Your a idiot.

[fromolwyoming]

For one it's "You're an idiot". You know, junior high grammar stuff.
Secondly, all you do is talk negatively about the players, coaching staff, UW, Laramie, pretty much everything to do with Wyoming.
Finally, your sig may say "I BLEED BROWN AND GOLD" but there has been little evidence of it at all on here. Only criticizing pretty much everything and everyone, particularly those that disagree with you.

[HiCountryCowboy]

We are capable of competing just fine in the MWC. That is the realistic goal. It's all about conference championships for us.

And man, how we are racking those up! How many has Tom managed to warehouse in our trophy case since leaving the car lot?

[Cuttslam]

For one it's "You're an idiot". You know, junior high grammar stuff.
Secondly, all you do is talk negatively about the players, coaching staff, UW, Laramie, pretty much everything to do with Wyoming.
Finally, your sig may say "I BLEED BROWN AND GOLD" but there has been little evidence of it at all on here. Only criticizing pretty much everything and everyone, particularly those that disagree with you.

Your a huge idiot . Talk to me when you move out of your moms basement.

[LanderPoke]

Also keep in mind that Wyoming has a relatively small percentage -- I think only three states are lower -- of people living here who were also born in the state.

That means that on top of our tiny population, we just don't have many who were born and raised here...and youth is the time when diehard allegiances to college teams are formed.

That's because anybody with any means gets the f-word out as soon as they can, and mostly don't look back. I was a big exception. I didn't leave until I was in my late 30s.

Ha, I left at the ripe old age of 20. Went down to ASU to hang with friends for spring break and transfered that fall.

Oh, OK?? A lot of people have the means to gtfo of Wyoming if they want. Most live here because they love Wyoming and all it offers. Why do you two even root for UW, anyway? Why don't you root for CU and ASU cuz Colorado and Arizona are so much better in your minds?

I do, I root for ASU and love U of A hoop and I have ASU hoop season
tickets in the cheap seats but usually always sit in the lower bowl WITHOUT being hassled.

So do you have any allegiance to Wyoming or are you just a troll?

A troll? Your a idiot.

No, you're an idiot.

[LanderPoke]

We are capable of competing just fine in the MWC. That is the realistic goal. It's all about conference championships for us.

And man, how we are racking those up! How many has Tom managed to warehouse in our trophy case since leaving the car lot?

Not lately, but things are looking up. Good, new coach and a lot to be proud of in terms of new facilities.

[Cuttslam]

Also keep in mind that Wyoming has a relatively small percentage -- I think only three states are lower -- of people living here who were also born in the state.

That means that on top of our tiny population, we just don't have many who were born and raised here...and youth is the time when diehard allegiances to college teams are formed.

That's because anybody with any means gets the f-word out as soon as they can, and mostly don't look back. I was a big exception. I didn't leave until I was in my late 30s.

Ha, I left at the ripe old age of 20. Went down to ASU to hang with friends for spring break and transfered that fall.

Oh, OK?? A lot of people have the means to gtfo of Wyoming if they want. Most live here because they love Wyoming and all it offers. Why do you two even root for UW, anyway? Why don't you root for CU and ASU cuz Colorado and Arizona are so much better in your minds?

I do, I root for ASU and love U of A hoop and I have ASU hoop season
tickets in the cheap seats but usually always sit in the lower bowl WITHOUT being hassled.

So do you have any allegiance to Wyoming or are you just a troll?

A troll? Your a idiot.

No, you're an idiot.

Moron

[ragtimejoe1]

And I suppose the corollary is that everyone can stop bitching about something -- everything! -- being the fault of the Athletic Department.

Whose fault is that we are falling behind our peers relative to athletics despite a greatly weakened MWC (both competitively and budgetary)?

[ragtimejoe1]

We are capable of competing just fine in the MWC. That is the realistic goal. It's all about conference championships for us.

BSU won the conference championship, is going to the Fiesta, and ranked in the T25. BSU also has a recent history of knocking off some pretty good P5 teams. I would say that is pretty much competing, at least somewhat, with the big dogs.

We aren't going to compete with BSU on our current trajectory. We are closer to the bottom in budget, attendance, etc. Our position within the MWC relative to budget is actually declining. Teams are outpacing us in this regard.

I do think Bohl can win DESPITE our administration. Our administration better, for the first time, show vision and leadership and capitalize on success. I have 0 confidence that they will, however.

[SnowyRange]

Whose fault is that we are falling behind our peers relative to athletics despite a greatly weakened MWC (both competitively and budgetary)?

As you might have noticed, I said that when another poster told me that going 9-3 and competing for MWC championships wouldn't increase attendance, because Wyoming fans don't attend games even when we have good teams.

The point is obvious: if that's true, it's a little hard to blame the Athletic Department for poor attendance.

[ragtimejoe1]

Whose fault is that we are falling behind our peers relative to athletics despite a greatly weakened MWC (both competitively and budgetary)?

As you might have noticed, I said that when another poster told me that going 9-3 and competing for MWC championships wouldn't increase attendance, because Wyoming fans don't attend games even when we have good teams.

The point is obvious: if that's true, it's a little hard to blame the Athletic Department for poor attendance.

Actually, I do blame the AD, at least in part. To me, there are very obvious deficiencies upfront. One is the total lack of alumni engagement. This really extends across the entire University, but severely lacking in the AD as well. There appears to be a deficiency in game day or game weekend environment. We need things to generate excitement and additional entertainment besides the game. I get the whole "well true fans, blah, blah, blah,...". It is a new era in entertainment and we have failed to adjust.

Lastly, if you look at attendance the past several years, we actually don't do too bad in September and October especially when considering our team performance. However, attendance tanks in November. I've said it before, but there are only 2 teams in our region that will draw a crowd in November, BYU and CSU (obviously a MWC champ game would be well attended regardless of opponent). As AD, I would try to have 2 home games in November and try to make sure 1 of those was either BYU or CSU every year.

[NowherePoke]

Whose fault is that we are falling behind our peers relative to athletics despite a greatly weakened MWC (both competitively and budgetary)?

As you might have noticed, I said that when another poster told me that going 9-3 and competing for MWC championships wouldn't increase attendance, because Wyoming fans don't attend games even when we have good teams.

The point is obvious: if that's true, it's a little hard to blame the Athletic Department for poor attendance.

Actually, I do blame the AD, at least in part. To me, there are very obvious deficiencies upfront. One is the total lack of alumni engagement. This really extends across the entire University, but severely lacking in the AD as well. There appears to be a deficiency in game day or game weekend environment. We need things to generate excitement and additional entertainment besides the game. I get the whole "well true fans, blah, blah, blah,...". It is a new era in entertainment and we have failed to adjust.

Lastly, if you look at attendance the past several years, we actually don't do too bad in September and October especially when considering our team performance. However, attendance tanks in November. I've said it before, but there are only 2 teams in our region that will draw a crowd in November, BYU and CSU (obviously a MWC champ game would be well attended regardless of opponent). As AD, I would try to have 2 home games in November and try to make sure 1 of those was either BYU or CSU every year.

November will always be an issue for us for a number of reasons. There is at least a decent chance of one game being played in really crappy weather conditions (which impacts travel as well), and the team is usually not competing for anything notable by that point.

It would be interesting if we could have one solid year where we built momentum throughout the year and see how November attendance looked. It will still decline relative to Sep/Oct, but we might be able to sustain it. The problem is we haven't had that year this century. 2011 looks like a decent record, but the enthusiasm was completely destroyed after one of the worst defeats in the history of UW football for a number of reasons (the debacle in Logan). 2007 started out well, but fizzled rapidly. 2006 finished strong, but started poorly.

[ragtimejoe1]

November will always be an issue for us for a number of reasons. There is at least a decent chance of one game being played in really crappy weather conditions (which impacts travel as well), and the team is usually not competing for anything notable by that point.

It would be interesting if we could have one solid year where we built momentum throughout the year and see how November attendance looked. It will still decline relative to Sep/Oct, but we might be able to sustain it. The problem is we haven't had that year this century. 2011 looks like a decent record, but the enthusiasm was completely destroyed after one of the worst defeats in the history of UW football for a number of reasons (the debacle in Logan). 2007 started out well, but fizzled rapidly. 2006 finished strong, but started poorly.

Definitely agree. We need a dome! j/k

Keeping with the capitalizing on success theory, when Bohl succeeds here, a November game against either BYU or CSU would probably near sellout. I agree it would be interesting to see attendance against another opponent if we had sustained success. Still, I think strategic scheduling could help as well--especially for the first few years of building a new culture at UW.

[NowherePoke]

Just a couple of other thoughts on other topics in this thread:

1. Competing vs. P5 - I am not particularly concerned with this. In terms of structural comparison the gap is wider than ever, but it has always been there particularly in football. Tiller, Roach, etc. had some good teams but none that would win a conference title in a "power" league and those teams played in front of the same types of crowds we have now. This is partially why I am a bigger basketball fan than a football fan. There is much more opportunity, IMO, to compete with the big boys in that sport. When we were last winning in hoops (97-03) we had average attendance in the 8k-10k range (averaged over 10k in 02-03) with most conference games being in the 10k+ range. That is on par or better with most of the P12. In fact in several years the MWC exceeded the PAC10 in hoops attendance. That won't be true anymore with SJSU on board and BYU/Utah gone, but as a league we have 3 programs with Top 40 type infrastructure (UNM, UNLV, SDSU) and a strong 2nd tier in terms of structural capabilities (WYO, USU, BSU, FSU and maybe UNR/CSU depending on your point of view). This is a league that can earn 3-4 bids to the NCAA tournament (not this year, but still). This is why I am so bitter about Burman/Schroyer. We should have hired Shyatt at that point and funded the AA renovations much sooner. Burman is correct in realizing that Football drives bus overall in collegiate athletics, however I just don't see that we need to worry about that. We aren't going to get kicked out of the MWC/FBS because our FB team goes 3-9 and we aren't going to a P5 invite if our FB team wins 80 in a row, so why not devote resources to competing in a sport that we can develop a national profile in.


2. Living in Wyoming - To each their own. I disagree with Brew's assertion that anyone with means leaves the state. Quantitatively, looking at income measures (HHI, etc.), Wyoming is far from a poor state (the opposite actually when cost of living and tax burden are incorporated. Almost certainly among the Top 10 states in economic standard of living). The bigger problem is that many (myself included) have to leave Wyoming for career opportunities. If I could have the career I have now and live in Wyoming, I would do so in a heartbeat. I know many that I grew up with that are in the same boat. Some of them end up scaling back their career ambitions to return to Wyoming, but until Wyoming diversifies its economy and provides opportunities for educated young people the state will continue to see a brain drain. Bringing it back to UW athletics, this means that a lot of folks that would love to be in the AA/War etc., to cheer on the Pokes are instead scattered around the country. Now, that is true for every school to a point, but I believe it is even moreso for Wyoming.