Former Beav QB transferring.

[BJC]

Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb?

[J-Rod]

Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb?

Haha oh dear. I mean...possibly?

I'll say this...Hawaii had a lot of "system QBs" in the Run & Shoot era. Warriors moved to the same offensive system Bohl runs now. Needless to say, UH fans are begging for a return to "system QBs". Call it what you want, DC's offense was pretty damn fun at times. His defense failed him, and he knew nothing about coaching the guys in the trenches....but his offense was explosive....at times.

[BJC]

agreed

[BeaverPoke]

Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb?

Absolutely.

That's the whole reason he put up crazy numbers, didn't get drafted, and got cut 3 days into his NFL "career".

[TSpoke]

Oh I agree completely. Smith was a stud. But he also wasn't highly touted out of high school. Its guys like him Bohl will have to recruit to be successful. He will have to take diamonds in the rough and polish them into something special. The problem with that is 97 times out of 100 all you get is a polished turd.

Agreed. Smith wasn't a total unknown though. He was the 89th overall best QB coming out of high school, and he did have a rating. That isn't "highly-touted" by any means, but trust me....that's more than most Wyo recruits can say. Smith was actually one of the top 3 rated recruits in the CDC era.

But yeah, you're overall point is correct. Taking a bunch of unknown, highly under-recruited talent and expecting them to all blossom into something special isn't realistic. If you're lucky, you get one emerging star for every 7-10 terrible players.

And the two RS-freshman on our roster were ranked as good or better than Smith was. Looking on Rivals I don't see any rankings for any of them but they all had a 5.4 rating. On Espn Brett was a 2 star recruit and the #107 QB recruit in the nation. Nick Smith and Austin Fort were both 3 star recruits and Nick Smith was the #71 pocket passer and Fort was the #36 Dual Threat qb.

What does all that mean? Nothing really. It for sure doesn't mean these two will be as good as Brett but I think it is ridiculous that we have people writing these guys off without ever seeing them perform and claiming since they didn't win the starting job as true freshmen with only the 3 or 4 weeks of fall camp they must be busts.

That doesn't even include Josh Allen who the coaches have been praising so far in camp.

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Oh I agree completely. Smith was a stud. But he also wasn't highly touted out of high school. Its guys like him Bohl will have to recruit to be successful. He will have to take diamonds in the rough and polish them into something special. The problem with that is 97 times out of 100 all you get is a polished turd.

Agreed. Smith wasn't a total unknown though. He was the 89th overall best QB coming out of high school, and he did have a rating. That isn't "highly-touted" by any means, but trust me....that's more than most Wyo recruits can say. Smith was actually one of the top 3 rated recruits in the CDC era.

But yeah, you're overall point is correct. Taking a bunch of unknown, highly under-recruited talent and expecting them to all blossom into something special isn't realistic. If you're lucky, you get one emerging star for every 7-10 terrible players.

And the two RS-freshman on our roster were ranked as good or better than Smith was. Looking on Rivals I don't see any rankings for any of them but they all had a 5.4 rating. On Espn Brett was a 2 star recruit and the #107 QB recruit in the nation. Nick Smith and Austin Fort were both 3 star recruits and Nick Smith was the #71 pocket passer and Fort was the #36 Dual Threat qb.

What does all that mean? Nothing really. It for sure doesn't mean these two will be as good as Brett but I think it is ridiculous that we have people writing these guys off without ever seeing them perform and claiming since they didn't win the starting job as true freshmen with only the 3 or 4 weeks of fall camp they must be busts.

That doesn't even include Josh Allen who the coaches have been praising so far in camp.

I agree. Those numbers mean nothing on themselves, throw in that the system here may not benefit them either. Fort is a Dual Threat which is not advantageous in a pro style offense. Yes its nice he can scramble and create if a play breaks down but he isn't being asked to run spread, isn't asked to run zone reads and zone option reads, and he isn't being asked to be a main running option. Again numbers mean nothing until the cleats hit the field. Can someone step up and lead the team, thats all that matters.

[fromolwyoming]

Oh I agree completely. Smith was a stud. But he also wasn't highly touted out of high school. Its guys like him Bohl will have to recruit to be successful. He will have to take diamonds in the rough and polish them into something special. The problem with that is 97 times out of 100 all you get is a polished turd.

Agreed. Smith wasn't a total unknown though. He was the 89th overall best QB coming out of high school, and he did have a rating. That isn't "highly-touted" by any means, but trust me....that's more than most Wyo recruits can say. Smith was actually one of the top 3 rated recruits in the CDC era.

But yeah, you're overall point is correct. Taking a bunch of unknown, highly under-recruited talent and expecting them to all blossom into something special isn't realistic. If you're lucky, you get one emerging star for every 7-10 terrible players.

And the two RS-freshman on our roster were ranked as good or better than Smith was. Looking on Rivals I don't see any rankings for any of them but they all had a 5.4 rating. On Espn Brett was a 2 star recruit and the #107 QB recruit in the nation. Nick Smith and Austin Fort were both 3 star recruits and Nick Smith was the #71 pocket passer and Fort was the #36 Dual Threat qb.

What does all that mean? Nothing really. It for sure doesn't mean these two will be as good as Brett but I think it is ridiculous that we have people writing these guys off without ever seeing them perform and claiming since they didn't win the starting job as true freshmen with only the 3 or 4 weeks of fall camp they must be busts.

That doesn't even include Josh Allen who the coaches have been praising so far in camp.

I agree. Those numbers mean nothing on themselves, throw in that the system here may not benefit them either. Fort is a Dual Threat which is not advantageous in a pro style offense. Yes its nice he can scramble and create if a play breaks down but he isn't being asked to run spread, isn't asked to run zone reads and zone option reads, and he isn't being asked to be a main running option. Again numbers mean nothing until the cleats hit the field. Can someone step up and lead the team, thats all that matters.

I watched some of NDSU's games after we found out Bohl was coming here. There were several read options and designed QB runs throughout the games. So yeah, dual threat QBs can and will be used to their strengths.

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Oh I agree completely. Smith was a stud. But he also wasn't highly touted out of high school. Its guys like him Bohl will have to recruit to be successful. He will have to take diamonds in the rough and polish them into something special. The problem with that is 97 times out of 100 all you get is a polished turd.

Agreed. Smith wasn't a total unknown though. He was the 89th overall best QB coming out of high school, and he did have a rating. That isn't "highly-touted" by any means, but trust me....that's more than most Wyo recruits can say. Smith was actually one of the top 3 rated recruits in the CDC era.

But yeah, you're overall point is correct. Taking a bunch of unknown, highly under-recruited talent and expecting them to all blossom into something special isn't realistic. If you're lucky, you get one emerging star for every 7-10 terrible players.

And the two RS-freshman on our roster were ranked as good or better than Smith was. Looking on Rivals I don't see any rankings for any of them but they all had a 5.4 rating. On Espn Brett was a 2 star recruit and the #107 QB recruit in the nation. Nick Smith and Austin Fort were both 3 star recruits and Nick Smith was the #71 pocket passer and Fort was the #36 Dual Threat qb.

What does all that mean? Nothing really. It for sure doesn't mean these two will be as good as Brett but I think it is ridiculous that we have people writing these guys off without ever seeing them perform and claiming since they didn't win the starting job as true freshmen with only the 3 or 4 weeks of fall camp they must be busts.

That doesn't even include Josh Allen who the coaches have been praising so far in camp.

I agree. Those numbers mean nothing on themselves, throw in that the system here may not benefit them either. Fort is a Dual Threat which is not advantageous in a pro style offense. Yes its nice he can scramble and create if a play breaks down but he isn't being asked to run spread, isn't asked to run zone reads and zone option reads, and he isn't being asked to be a main running option. Again numbers mean nothing until the cleats hit the field. Can someone step up and lead the team, thats all that matters.

I watched some of NDSU's games after we found out Bohl was coming here. There were several read options and designed QB runs throughout the games. So yeah, dual threat QBs can and will be used to their strengths.

I guess maybe it is dependent on the personel. Colby wasn't running a zone read option but maybe Brett Smith would have. Good point.

[BeaverPoke]

Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

[J-Rod]

Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

That is true. There are some decent-to-above average coaches who have high level success despite not knowing the game well...all due to recruiting.

Les Miles - talent developer? Not a chance. We didn't know who Odell Beckham Jr. was until last season with NYG.
Jim Mora Jr. - Recruiting giant, average coach
Steve Sarkisian - See Mora.

Plenty of other examples. Talent wins big at the FBS level.

[WYCowboy]

Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

That is true. There are some decent-to-above average coaches who have high level success despite not knowing the game well...all due to recruiting.

Les Miles - talent developer? Not a chance. We didn't know who Odell Beckham Jr. was until last season with NYG.
Jim Mora Jr. - Recruiting giant, average coach
Steve Sarkisian - See Mora.

Plenty of other examples. Talent wins big at the FBS level.

Exceptions are UNLV Basketball & SJSU Football.

[BeaverPoke]

Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

That is true. There are some decent-to-above average coaches who have high level success despite not knowing the game well...all due to recruiting.

Les Miles - talent developer? Not a chance. We didn't know who Odell Beckham Jr. was until last season with NYG.
Jim Mora Jr. - Recruiting giant, average coach
Steve Sarkisian - See Mora.

Plenty of other examples. Talent wins big at the FBS level.

Exceptions are UNLV Basketball & SJSU Football.

Eh, I disagree.

Coaching matters, just not as much as talent.

There is probably some random number or equation a mathematician could formulate that shows the ratio of coaching level to talent level that equates to wins and losses that would generally hold true.

They both matter, talent just matters more. And when you have UNLV hoops talent, and as many losses as they do, you know their coaching is not just bad, but truly terrible.

[joshvanklomp]

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?

[J-Rod]

Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?

Boise State had an OT now headed for Canton in that game along with 5-6 other NFL players. They were no Cinderella, there was a ton of legitimate talent on that team.Not saying Boise didn't out-coach OU, but the Broncos had a ton of talent on that roster.

So many people don't even know that poor, defenseless and helpless Cinderella Boise State was a monster 6-point underdog for that game.

[BeaverPoke]

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?

Every argument you bring up is always the exception vs the rule.

And like J-Rod pointed out, there was quite a bit of talent on that team.

[joshvanklomp]

Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?

Boise State had an OT now headed for Canton in that game along with 5-6 other NFL players.

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

[J-Rod]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

[NowherePoke]

Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb?

Absolutely.

That's the whole reason he put up crazy numbers, didn't get drafted, and got cut 3 days into his NFL "career".

The "system" sure looked like crap when it was run by Colby and we lost to Cal Poly. Smith's numbers are of course inflated by the system that tries to generate a lot of snaps and involves the QB in some fashion (run or pass) on most downs, but he was very effective running it.

I don't think you can base evaluations of a players ability/impact in college on their professional career. The games are too different, particularly for a QB. The NFL requires a level of arm strength that Brett simply didn't have. That doesn't make him any less of a college QB though.

I tend to think in terms of basketball more often, but I don't think the fact that a guy like Marcus Bailey was never a NBA prospect (even before the injury) makes him any less of a quality college player or some type of "system" player (as I laugh to myself trying to hink of McClain having a "system", ha!). One of my favorite basketball examples is Brandon Ewing and Justin Williams. Which would you rather have on your college team? Which one played in the NBA? There is a baseline level of size and athleticism required in the professional leagues that many of the good college players just don't have, but that shouldn't diminish their productivity or impact at the college level.

Sorry for the digression.

[joshvanklomp]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

[BeaverPoke]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Ryan Clady's NFL career is proof they under valued him on the rating system. Simple as that.