Success stories in G5 ranks that took a decade to build?

[seattlecowboy]

First team was the 1998 Kent St. team coached by Dean Pees. This is his record by years he coached there.


1998 0-11
1999-2-9
2000-1-10
2001 6-5
2002 3-9
2003 5-7 Fired

SMU Coached by Phil Bennet.... This one could be comparable based on the fact he went 0-12 his 2nd year if indeed Wyoming finished 0-12.

2002 3-9
2003 0-12
2004 3-8
2005 5-6
2006 6-6
2007 1-11 Fired

In both of these cases, it wasn't the original 0-12 season that made them a failure. Both of them got out of the cellar and got their teams to 6 wins. It was their performance once they got to 6 wins that got them fired.

I can agree with you on this point but my point is they weren't able to turn the program around enough to make the program successful. So I guess Bohl will get us to 6-6 again which is a lot better than 0-12 but What is the point of that when Joe Glenn and DC did the same thing? They hired a coach to become better than 6-6 so if all we want is 6-6 there are plenty of coaches who can do that once every 4 or 5 years.

[seattlecowboy]

Has a coach of an 0-12 team ever gone on to win a conference championship in that same tenure? I can even be optimist and stretch it out to 1-11, assuming a miracle may happen this season...

Ron Turner did it at Illinois from 1997 to 2001. After they won the conference championship they then went back to being terrible. Ron Turners first team didn't win a game though not his 2nd team. So there is a big difference there.

[cowboyz]

These are very specific metrics to find comparisons, if we were to go 0-12 in Bohl's second year and then come back to win, has it ever been done? I looked up records of some good coaches to see if they were in a similar situation (none are the same, as it's too exact).

Eddie Robison won one game in 41 at Grambling, went undefeated the next year.
Woddy Hayes' first coaching job at Denison he was 2-6 and then followed up with 2 undefeated seasons.
Bear Bryant was 1-9 at Texas A&M and 2 years later undefeated.
Lou Holtz was 0-11 at South Carolina and was 9-3 two years later.
Mack Brown was 1-10 at North Carolina and 9-3 three seasons later.
Bill Snyder was 1-10 at Kansas State, 7-4 two years later and 9-2-1, two years after that.
Hayden Fry seems to be the closest comparison, was 1-9 in his 3rd season at SMU and 8-3 two years later.

[alyssa]

SMU is such a bad example because the program was not allowed to try like other programs (The Pye Penalty).
So after things like the DP and the Pye Penalty it has only been in the last few years that SMU relaxed entry standards but June Jones did not recruit. He would not go down the street to visit the closest high school etc.

The 2016 recruiting class will be SMU's first since the DP where the school is giving it's best try with a serious HC etc.
And is working on making it better.

[Poke in Billings]

Who gives a hoot if its been done before or not. I'm only interested in what happens here. As long as Bohl is pulling in quality recruits, which appears he continues to do, he's got a shot at a great turnaround. I'm bummed like everyone here, but certainly not discouraged. It's going to be fascinating to watch these youngsters and see how they improve as they grow up.

[kansasCowboy]

Who gives a hoot if its been done before or not. I'm only interested in what happens here. As long as Bohl is pulling in quality recruits, which appears he continues to do, he's got a shot at a great turnaround. I'm bummed like everyone here, but certainly not discouraged. It's going to be fascinating to watch these youngsters and see how they improve as they grow up.

I like your enthusiasm. And I'm bummed too. Some of us are able to hold out for hope. Others need proof that that hope exists. That's what this thread is for. To show that turnarounds are possible even in the worst of times.

[cowboyz]

SMU is such a bad example because the program was not allowed to try like other programs (The Pye Penalty).
So after things like the DP and the Pye Penalty it has only been in the last few years that SMU relaxed entry standards but June Jones did not recruit. He would not go down the street to visit the closest high school etc.

The 2016 recruiting class will be SMU's first since the DP where the school is giving it's best try with a serious HC etc.
And is working on making it better.

I actually thought Hayden Fry/SMU was the best example, as it showed a coach that won 4 games and then the next year he won only one, but a couple years later had the team up to 8 wins, which is where this thread started. It was also a roller coaster for years after that, losing season, winning season, but it shows that you can take a step backward and still build a competitive program. All of this was before the death penalty.

[kansasCowboy]

SMU is such a bad example because the program was not allowed to try like other programs (The Pye Penalty).
So after things like the DP and the Pye Penalty it has only been in the last few years that SMU relaxed entry standards but June Jones did not recruit. He would not go down the street to visit the closest high school etc.

The 2016 recruiting class will be SMU's first since the DP where the school is giving it's best try with a serious HC etc.
And is working on making it better.

I actually thought Hayden Fry/SMU was the best example, as it showed a coach that won 4 games and then the next year he won only one, but a couple years later had the team up to 8 wins, which is where this thread started. It was also a roller coaster for years after that, losing season, winning season, but it shows that you can take a step backward and still build a competitive program. All of this was before the death penalty.

I know no one will like this but: Dana Dimel at Houston

3-8
0-11
5-7 - fired
Art Briles takes over same team and goes to a bowl his first year. 7-6.

Northern Illin. Joe Novak:
1-10
0-11
2-9
5-6
6-5
6-5
8-4
10-2
9-3 first Bowl! 6 years of bad to mediocre before actually taking off. Probably would've fired him here since he had 6 years like Glenn. Was worse his second year also.

Rocky Long at New Mexico
3-9
4-7
5-7
6-5
7-7
8-5
This is not his entire career there but shows the years it took to progress.

Darrell Dickey at North Texas
3-8
2-9
3-8
5-7 probably fired at WYO at this point
8-5bowl
9-4 bowl
7-5 bowl to bad we fired him to early... I'm bring a hypothetical here.

That's just a few I've found so far.

[ragtimejoe1]

As soon as you fellas are done, let me know. We'll start listing failed coaches who did not succeed in 4 years and more importantly coaches who were highly successful and succeeded in first 4 years. That ought to give the fanboys weeks of excuse making of why that is not relevant to WYO

[kansasCowboy]

As soon as you fellas are done, let me know. We'll start listing failed coaches who did not succeed in 4 years and more importantly coaches who were highly successful and succeeded in first 4 years. That ought to give the fanboys weeks of excuse making of why that is not relevant to WYO

[ragtimejoe1]

As soon as you fellas are done, let me know. We'll start listing failed coaches who did not succeed in 4 years and more importantly coaches who were highly successful and succeeded in first 4 years. That ought to give the fanboys weeks of excuse making of why that is not relevant to WYO

All kidding aside, this is actually kind of interesting. After listing all the examples for all sides, I wonder if there really is a trend in successful ingredients?

[laxwyo]

Well, it shows that patience can pay off. Most of those coaches would have been fired here

[cowboyz]

As soon as you fellas are done, let me know. We'll start listing failed coaches who did not succeed in 4 years and more importantly coaches who were highly successful and succeeded in first 4 years. That ought to give the fanboys weeks of excuse making of why that is not relevant to WYO

I agree, who was the fanboy that started this thread anyway?

[alyssa]

SMU is such a bad example because the program was not allowed to try like other programs (The Pye Penalty).
So after things like the DP and the Pye Penalty it has only been in the last few years that SMU relaxed entry standards but June Jones did not recruit. He would not go down the street to visit the closest high school etc.

The 2016 recruiting class will be SMU's first since the DP where the school is giving it's best try with a serious HC etc.
And is working on making it better.

I actually thought Hayden Fry/SMU was the best example, as it showed a coach that won 4 games and then the next year he won only one, but a couple years later had the team up to 8 wins, which is where this thread started. It was also a roller coaster for years after that, losing season, winning season, but it shows that you can take a step backward and still build a competitive program. All of this was before the death penalty.

Yeah but the guy wanted BCS era examples. And back then the SWC was what is a power conference today. In some years it was the best conference.

[kansasCowboy]

SMU is such a bad example because the program was not allowed to try like other programs (The Pye Penalty).
So after things like the DP and the Pye Penalty it has only been in the last few years that SMU relaxed entry standards but June Jones did not recruit. He would not go down the street to visit the closest high school etc.

The 2016 recruiting class will be SMU's first since the DP where the school is giving it's best try with a serious HC etc.
And is working on making it better.

I actually thought Hayden Fry/SMU was the best example, as it showed a coach that won 4 games and then the next year he won only one, but a couple years later had the team up to 8 wins, which is where this thread started. It was also a roller coaster for years after that, losing season, winning season, but it shows that you can take a step backward and still build a competitive program. All of this was before the death penalty.

Yeah but the guy wanted BCS era examples. And back then the SWC was what is a power conference today. In some years it was the best conference.

My examples are late 90's early 2K. BCS era...

[stymeman]

Help Wanted: an experienced college football coaching staff, serious inquiries need apply, contact The University of Wyoming

[laxwyo]

If we had just hired the right coach, we'd be in playoff birth talk

[ELKMT]

If we had just hired the right coach, we'd be in playoff birth talk

I like your style

[fishouttawater]

Navy is a unique example of a school that has risen from the depths of the bottom 10 and for the last decade plus has been a perennial winner. During their turn around they had no conference affiliation and had more flexibility with their schedule as an independent, but this was just about the only advantage they had. As such, I would argue that their success was driven largely by the fact that they hired the right coach at the right time more than anything else.

Their hire was Paul Johnson, a 1AA coach (Georgia Southern) that won several 1AA championships running a conservative offense before jumping up to the big time (sound familiar?). He inherited a team that won a grand total of 1 game in two years and took them to a bowl game in his second year with the same athletes that previously couldn't figure out how to win a game. He did it at a military service academy in the wake of 9-11 and at the onset of the Global War on Terrorism.

2000: 1-10
2001: 0-11
2002: Paul Johnson Hired 2-10...Most of his recruits attended the Naval Academy Prep School and had no impact on this season
2003: 8-5 This was remarkable because most of his recruits were true freshman after spending a year at the prep school. He went to a bowl game with juniors and seniors that previously won only 3 games
2004: 10-2
2005: 8-4
2006: 9-4
2007: 8-5 Paul Johnson leaves for bigger job (Georgia Tech) after the regular season
2008: 8-5 Johnson's successor keeps the gravy train rolling
2009: 10-4
2010: 9-4
2011: 5-7
2012: 8-5
2013: 9-4
2014: 8-5

It's not like Navy has been doing this loaded with 3 and 4 star recruits. To say they've been operating with a recruiting handicap is an understatement...no juco transfers allowed, restrictive academic requirements, medical restrictions for military service, weight restrictions, 5 year military obligation, military lifestyle, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Wyoming really has no business using its remoteness or affiliation with a less than prestigious football conference as much of an excuse in light of what the service academies have to deal with to get kids to commit.

Navy's turn around was entirely about coaching. For them, it didn't take all too long for the turn around to take place. 11 bowl appearances in fifteen years is pretty stellar if you ask me. They join the American Athletic Conference next year, so they'll start vying for conference championships in the near future if they sustain their decade of success.

The biggest challenge for Bohl to turn this thing around is getting the young players on this team as many meannigful game reps as possible so they'll be in a better position to actually compete at the tail end of this season and into the next. This is what Paul Johnson had in his second season at Navy...a locker room full of kids tired of losing with enough game experience to take advantage of good coaching. Unlike Johnson, the cupboards are bare at Wyo, it's a complete reboot. Also unlike Johnson, however, Bohl had a chance to stock those cupboards with about 10-15 juco players as a stop gap to get his freshmen time to grow and develop into D1 ballplayers ala Bill Snyder's modus operandi at K-State.

[alyssa]

Navy is not a good example either.

I remember the 2004 article by Bill Pennington titled "Formations Begin in Prep Schools for 3 Academy Teams".

I can't copy and paste right now.