Why can Air Force field a competitive team

[laxwyo]

The Citadel beat South Carolina and Florida beat FAU in OT

[djm19]

All about discipline. Military schools are a disciplined bunch. When it comes to sports, most of them are methodical and wear opponents down. Sure that comes from coaching, but I think a lot of it comes from what they have to go through off the field.

[ragtimejoe1]

Basically you just said the same thing.
Question: how many 18-19 yr olds do they have playing on Saturday?
The majority of AFs players on Saturday and jr and sr, with a few Soph in there to fill the depth.

Question2: what are their 18-19 yr olds doing? They practice altogether, but they get game time experience each year to engrain themselves into the offense and defensive system that they will use when they play varsity. What do our 18-19 yr olds do? They get to play for the varsity this year, but mostly they RS and practice sparingly, workout and do schooling. So would our RS be as prepared as an AF FR or Soph that get to play 10 or 11 games of their own?
I think their JV helps them immensely when it comes to them being prepared to play for the real AF team. Hence why they always seem to be right on track after they lose several senior starters and have NO big names coming back the next year.
This is why I think with all of our Frosh, RS Frosh, and Soph playing this year will benefit us in the long run. We are the equivalent of the AFA JV team playing in the MWC this year. I think our guys are getting a vast majority experience in real games and are being engrained in the system at the same time.
Yeah, it makes for a disgusting year, but these guys will be better for it. Hill is a great example of this. He had to come in halfway through last year and with his talent learned what the coaches wanted of him in his position, this year he had that knowledge, that game time experience and he excelled in the system. The others will follow in that direction as well.

Not an excuse.

For 1, what percentage of players that hit the field were senior, junior, etc. Surely you have this information since you made that claim. Either way, lack of seniority might (stress might) be our current problem (I hope it is) but we've fielded a lot of teams composed primarily of seniors, juniors, and sophomores that were not good.

For 2, whoa! Kansas just solved our problems. We need to give Freshmen live action against 4 or 5 prep/high schools. There we go. Problem solved. Burman make it happen. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Put all the AF "perks" and restrictions at WYO and we'd never win a game. Bottom line.

[kansasCowboy]

Basically you just said the same thing.
Question: how many 18-19 yr olds do they have playing on Saturday?
The majority of AFs players on Saturday and jr and sr, with a few Soph in there to fill the depth.

Question2: what are their 18-19 yr olds doing? They practice altogether, but they get game time experience each year to engrain themselves into the offense and defensive system that they will use when they play varsity. What do our 18-19 yr olds do? They get to play for the varsity this year, but mostly they RS and practice sparingly, workout and do schooling. So would our RS be as prepared as an AF FR or Soph that get to play 10 or 11 games of their own?
I think their JV helps them immensely when it comes to them being prepared to play for the real AF team. Hence why they always seem to be right on track after they lose several senior starters and have NO big names coming back the next year.
This is why I think with all of our Frosh, RS Frosh, and Soph playing this year will benefit us in the long run. We are the equivalent of the AFA JV team playing in the MWC this year. I think our guys are getting a vast majority experience in real games and are being engrained in the system at the same time.
Yeah, it makes for a disgusting year, but these guys will be better for it. Hill is a great example of this. He had to come in halfway through last year and with his talent learned what the coaches wanted of him in his position, this year he had that knowledge, that game time experience and he excelled in the system. The others will follow in that direction as well.

Not an excuse.

For 1, what percentage of players that hit the field were senior, junior, etc. Surely you have this information since you made that claim. Either way, lack of seniority might (stress might) be our current problem (I hope it is) but we've fielded a lot of teams composed primarily of seniors, juniors, and sophomores that were not good.

For 2, whoa! Kansas just solved our problems. We need to give Freshmen live action against 4 or 5 prep/high schools. There we go. Problem solved. Burman make it happen. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Put all the AF "perks" and restrictions at WYO and we'd never win a game. Bottom line.

You really do try to pick fights, don't you?

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

This is a very interesting thread topic.

I think a short answer is coaching and recruiting. WYO is stuck in a rut right now in coaching. I believe the players are there, they just must be utilized.

[BeaverPoke]

Basically you just said the same thing.
Question: how many 18-19 yr olds do they have playing on Saturday?
The majority of AFs players on Saturday and jr and sr, with a few Soph in there to fill the depth.

Question2: what are their 18-19 yr olds doing? They practice altogether, but they get game time experience each year to engrain themselves into the offense and defensive system that they will use when they play varsity. What do our 18-19 yr olds do? They get to play for the varsity this year, but mostly they RS and practice sparingly, workout and do schooling. So would our RS be as prepared as an AF FR or Soph that get to play 10 or 11 games of their own?
I think their JV helps them immensely when it comes to them being prepared to play for the real AF team. Hence why they always seem to be right on track after they lose several senior starters and have NO big names coming back the next year.
This is why I think with all of our Frosh, RS Frosh, and Soph playing this year will benefit us in the long run. We are the equivalent of the AFA JV team playing in the MWC this year. I think our guys are getting a vast majority experience in real games and are being engrained in the system at the same time.
Yeah, it makes for a disgusting year, but these guys will be better for it. Hill is a great example of this. He had to come in halfway through last year and with his talent learned what the coaches wanted of him in his position, this year he had that knowledge, that game time experience and he excelled in the system. The others will follow in that direction as well.

Not an excuse.

For 1, what percentage of players that hit the field were senior, junior, etc. Surely you have this information since you made that claim. Either way, lack of seniority might (stress might) be our current problem (I hope it is) but we've fielded a lot of teams composed primarily of seniors, juniors, and sophomores that were not good.

For 2, whoa! Kansas just solved our problems. We need to give Freshmen live action against 4 or 5 prep/high schools. There we go. Problem solved. Burman make it happen. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Put all the AF "perks" and restrictions at WYO and we'd never win a game. Bottom line.

You really do try to pick fights, don't you?

[fromolwyoming]

Why? Because Beaver touches himself at night.

[ragtimejoe1]

You really do try to pick fights, don't you?

So you don't have that info? Sorry I just disagree with ridiculous notions like 4 or 5 prep school games are why AF has been more successful than us.

[coachgtp]

Hey guys, new to the forum here so be gentle. I was reading through a bunch of the threads and this one got me thinking. Coach Bohl was very successful at NDSU so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for at least two seasons. To my way of thinking, it's all about recruiting. As we all know, recruiting is the lifeblood of any program and, to be successful at it, you really have to master the art AND the science. Too many staffa are great at one but not the other. Quality football programs are good at establishing an identity and then recruiting to that identity. In other words, they don't pretend to be something that they're not.
Air Force, not unlike the other academies, is unique in that its identity is pretty much established for them. They have to find hard working, intelligent, athletes who typically have a chip on their shoulder because they felt under-recruited. It's unlikely you'll find an "entitled" football player at AF. They get the gig from day one and the effort they put into the weight room and on the practice field is no different than what they put into the classroom and into their military preparation. The coaches at AF are really no different. Most of them are former military officers so that same work ethic was inculcated years ago.
What is Wyoming's identity? What kind of kids are they trying to recruit? Do those kids contribute to a cohesive locker room? I don't know the answer so I'm really asking the question(s). I think Bohl and his staff did a great job at NDSU because they knew who they were. They relied on the big strong country boys from the Dakotas, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Nebraska. Sure, they'd pluck an "athlete" out of Texas or California once and a while but that was really the exception. More importantly, it didn't change the team culture at all. The same principles apply at Alabama, USC, BYU, or even a school like Harvard. Recruit to your strengths and don't waste so much energy trying to shore up your weaknesses.

[ragtimejoe1]

Welcome coach. I think Bohl believes exactly what you state and that he can build a unique identity here at WYO.

When our "Powder River Let 'er Buck" identity was winding down, Burman, said we needed a unique system and unique identity to compete at WYO. We couldn't recruit well enough to line up and run people over. Then, he hires DC to bring that innovative and unique identity to WYO. After DC fails, Burman hires Bohl to develop WYO kids, embrace "Cowboy Tough", and develop a smash mouth identity that WYO can be proud of.

Me? I think it is all poop (the slogan and forced ideology stuff--not your post). A bunch of crap to put on bumper stickers and T-Shirts. A program is built on the backs of good coaches with good recruiting ties. Like Bob Stoops says, "surround yourself with guys who could be head coaches elsewhere". Winning is an identity and so is losing.

Instead of taking the 2 million or so profit the football team currently makes, invest it in coaches' salaries. Pretty soon your team will be earning far more than 2 million. $500-$600K/coordinator position/year will get you a decent OC and DC to Laramie, and they will have a good recruiting network. $200K will get you Stanard.

I get your point, and I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but I think the BSU model is the best in the G5 ranks. Get the best players you can get and then adjust your system to capitalize on their strengths.

[Slow Hand]

Ok, without going back and reading all of the posts in this thread I am going to offer an answer to this, so forgive me if I have repeated what may have already been said........The reason AF is competitive is nothing more than a "System Approach" to football. Ask yourself this question......how long have the Falcons been running the triple option? They have perfected the nuances throughout the years. They beat people based on the intelligence quotient. The triple option is an offense that puts great stress on two areas of the defense and when read correctly by the QB is almost unstoppable at mid-level conferences. This does not work at the upper echelon simply based on the talent level that big schools like Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan etc posses. If you look back at the early 80's many teams were making hay with the wishbone and the triple option. It then evolved into the Zone or Spread option so that an effective passing component could be added. Urban Meyer while in Utah was one of the first to take this idea and stand it on its head with the triple option but rather than using the belly read he used a shuffle pass.

Option football is like a work of art when it is hitting on all cylinders.

[JimmyDimes]

Ok, without going back and reading all of the posts in this thread I am going to offer an answer to this, so forgive me if I have repeated what may have already been said........The reason AF is competitive is nothing more than a "System Approach" to football. Ask yourself this question......how long have the Falcons been running the triple option? They have perfected the nuances throughout the years. They beat people based on the intelligence quotient. The triple option is an offense that puts great stress on two areas of the defense and when read correctly by the QB is almost unstoppable at mid-level conferences. This does not work at the upper echelon simply based on the talent level that big schools like Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan etc posses. If you look back at the early 80's many teams were making hay with the wishbone and the triple option. It then evolved into the Zone or Spread option so that an effective passing component could be added. Urban Meyer while in Utah was one of the first to take this idea and stand it on its head with the triple option but rather than using the belly read he used a shuffle pass.

Option football is like a work of art when it is hitting on all cylinders.

Good post. The truth is Boise has had trouble with teams who run the option. Mew Mexico, before beating them, had given them some close games. I think this is two in a row for Air Force.

Not only is it continuity with their offense, but how long as Calhoun been the head coach there? I think he is currently has the longest tenure, with current team, of any coach in the MWC.

[ragtimejoe1]

The triple option is an offense that puts great stress on two areas of the defense and when read correctly by the QB is almost unstoppable at mid-level conferences. This does not work at the upper echelon simply based on the talent level that big schools like Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan etc posses.

I'd disagree with a lot of the rest of your post, but that has been discussed above. However, I think this is a good point and I would extend that to level of defensive coaches.

The lack of talent in the MWC makes the triple option work better. Fair point and I hadn't thought of that.

[LanderPoke]

The triple option is an offense that puts great stress on two areas of the defense and when read correctly by the QB is almost unstoppable at mid-level conferences. This does not work at the upper echelon simply based on the talent level that big schools like Ohio State, Alabama, Michigan etc posses.

I'd disagree with a lot of the rest of your post, but that has been discussed above. However, I think this is a good point and I would extend that to level of defensive coaches.

The lack of talent in the MWC makes the triple option work better. Fair point and I hadn't thought of that.

Georgia Tech does a similar offense. They are decent. I think the triple option could work at any level. Imagine if an elite dualthreat qb ran it?

[ragtimejoe1]

Georgia Tech does a similar offense. They are decent. I think the triple option could work at any level. Imagine if an elite dualthreat qb ran it?

GT is usually pretty solid but I think the ACC has been average on D for the most part and not one of the stronger of the P5 conferences.

About the only conference that GT has a significant number of games against (in the BCS era) is the SEC and GT has a 44% winning percentage against the SEC. Granted that there are a lot more factors than just the triple option, but I really don't think that offense would work well in the SEC.

Still, the triple option can definitely work at higher levels, but I do think the overall lack of talent in the MWC helps the triple option work fairly consistently when it is run at the level AF does. NM is also having some success with it in a short amount of time (i.e. you don't need a staff or offense around for 30 years).

[MrTitleist]

Again, Georgia Tech is a Power 5 school, but also limited in recruiting. Their student population is VERY small (like 10k?), and they can't recruit dumb kids as they're an elite engineering school. They are very much in the same boat as AFA, Navy, etc.

[LanderPoke]

So we're saying that the triple option wouldn't work at dumb schools?

[ragtimejoe1]

Well, coachgtp, I have a friend who is a BSU person. I told him about my example I used in addressing your post and he promptly told me I was full of it. He also indicated that you were much more accurate and that BSU heavily utilizes the OKG (our kinda guys) approach. In other words, BSU emulates exactly what you describe. I trust that the guy knows one hell of a lot more than I do about BSU, so my apologies.

Coupled with good coaching, maybe you are exactly right.

[JimmyDimes]

Well, coachgtp, I have a friend who is a BSU person. I told him about my example I used in addressing your post and he promptly told me I was full of it. He also indicated that you were much more accurate and that BSU heavily utilizes the OKG (our kinda guys) approach. In other words, BSU emulates exactly what you describe. I trust that the guy knows one hell of a lot more than I do about BSU, so my apologies.

Coupled with good coaching, maybe you are exactly right.

Boise built their program with underrated (2*) recruits and coaching consistency. They built a program that was successful in the JC ranks and never let up. All coaching hires were made from within to keep the continuity alive. Only recently....Fiesta bowl.....were they able to recruit a higher level player.

On a side note....I hate that I pretend to be a know-it-all sometimes. I'm just a regular old bean counter with decent analytical skills.

Peace!