Different Year, exact same argument

[carbonpoke]

an election year to boot. I feel like we always have ourselves a recruiting argument about whether or not our class has enough stars. feels very left wing right wing to me.

I want to bring up a couple of things about rebuilding from a historical standpoint, mostly from memory, so feel free to correct if I'm wrong. probably gonna be a long post.

Alabama: Remember when Alabama SUCKED... I do. 80's through the beginning of Saban. I wanted to like Alabama because of their history with Bear Bryant, but they sucked big time. Birmingham was not the destination for college recruits. Florida schools were the big time then... not Podunk Alabama.

Oregon: Before Phil Knight's check book changed the facilities, and really the whole recruiting pitch for every college, Oregon sucked big time.

Boise State: still a mystery to me, but what I can tell you is that the airport meeting that we were part of, greatly helped Boise historic climb to relevancy. If the mountain west had never formed, would boise have become the dominant force in the wac? Nope, well maybe, but it would have been a much longer road.

Michigan: this is a work in progress. years of forgotten averageness, only to hire an alum, that in my estimation will have them winning again soon. they missed with hoke, but I will get to the why momentarily.

Okey. So first, lets talk about different approaches to fielding a program now. There is a national crazy to having yourself part of relevant program or conference. My belief is that the G5 conference want a recruiting discrepancy. because its damn hard to get out of the suck zone if you don't have a recruiting advantage.

there are college towns today, that don't even have to put forth a sweat when recruiting. The location recruits itself. Its the pull of the "bennies" that go along with being at these schools that most spoiled big headed recruits want. I shouldn't even insult everybody's intelligence with examples of what I am talking about, so I won't I think you all get my drift.

So how did Alabama do it? Well, history and finding a coach that could win through that history. Saban immediately had the support of the Tide faithful because he brought back Bryant football. but he also got lucky, because he found enough wins early in his time there to keep his job.

Oregon, never had anything. They are lucky that Phil is a football fan, because Oregon used a huge budget to buy their wins. Facilities are damn important.

boise, timing was everything, and fiddling with what acceptance criteria they had. They built a team of misfits around a solid coaching staff and it worked.

Michigan, kinda the same mold as Alabama, lets get back to our roots and fill our stadium, win... and everybody will be happy.

there's a ton more that I want to say about schools that do a successful rebuild, but I really need to move on to Wyoming.

Alabama wasn't out recruiting the other schools in the SEC, saban made it work... AND he did it his way... AND he's the boss. Is Bohl our guy? I think so, but a lot of other things have to go right.

Budget, attrition, complete coaching staff, facilities, and brand all have a big part of what we have to do.

Developmental programs, which WE ARE (and that aint changing anytime soon or with a different coach), have to be above average in all the above categories. We need a competitive budget, we need low attrition, we need a complete and above average coaching staff, we need updated facilities, and we need a brand of football that we sell (which ties into bring back the history of our program)... which is exactly what Bohl had adamantly said he is trying to do.

So to that end, recruiting stars don't f-word matter to us yet. work ethic, keeping kids in the program, having coaching consistency, building around facilities, increasing our budget... and winning. That's the most important part. WINNING.

do you think that any other coach could walk into Wyoming, with the facilities that we have, the budget that we have, and start pulling in recruiting stars... NOOOO. not gonna happen.

if bohl gets let go eventually, it wasn't because he didn't understand this. It would be because he couldn't win. But is that all on him? Most of it, the big thing right now for him to fix is our coaching staff. but there are things that could lead to him losing his job that are not his responsibility. Facilities and Budget.

I think our state is trying, I think burman is trying, I think the cowboy joe club is trying.

I just hope that us as a taxpaying fan, understand that there is much more going on here, and much MUCH more that we need to do besides what happened today. I still like this class... it has a lot of work ethic.

will we ever get the balanced coaching staff that we need on the budget we currently have. Look around... look at successful programs, how does our coaching budget stack up against success?

find the real root of the problem. Don't treat symptom's, treat the disease.

[J-Rod]

It's one of those things...we're all potential hypocrites when it comes to this. BSU fans loved thumping their chest about how they could turn poop into gold in recruiting. That is until the poop just stayed...poop. Now they know their 4-Star and high-end 3-Star recruits are vital to their success. They know being #1 in the MW on signing day is crucial.

I'm not taking poop from anybody lol. I suggested Wyoming should hire Bohl waaaay before anyone else did on this board. If anyone has a proven record of getting the most out of lesser talent, it's him.

That said, the classes IMO are a mix of good and "uh, I don't know man..." prospects. Nothing is ever a sure thing in recruiting. I remember when Uso Olive was going to kill everyone. Grab opposing OL and snap their head off just by breathing. Now he is apparently no big loss. This happens with every single fan base....all the recruits are awesome until they suck.

Bottom line is: Bohl went 4-8 in 2014, and 2-10 in 2015. Expectations and aspirations are still high. Dreams of conference titles and national relevancy. This is year #3. All I'm saying is, recruiting arguments aside...if this team doesn't go at least 5-7 in 2016, AT LEAST....I'll begin to wonder if this is going to work.

We can debate "stars don't matter" or "Yes they do!" all day...all that really matters is wins and losses. 2016: we need to see results.

[alyssa]

Alabama did not suck. It was not Birmingham.

[WyoBrandX]

I wonder if our 2-10 season wasn't strategic on Bohl's part. Sure, this is a bit TIC, but when you can recruit a few diamonds out there, have two terrible seasons in a row, getting back to 6 wins shouldn't be too tough. In fact, if it happened, it would look like Bohl had put out a dumpster fire and built a new dumpster next to it.

What I'm really trying to say is we need momentum. We have the opportunity for a hell of alot of momentum by just going 2-10 last year. The more wins will quickly start translating to winning recruiting battles that we are losing now.

Its tough to be in Bohl's position. He has to sell options to new recruits - to have them hedge a bet against being much better than we are right now in the near future. Thats not easy with 17-22 year old men.

[ragtimejoe1]

I don't mean to be a jerk here, but anything that compares G5 to P5 is mostly irrelevant. The hurdle is much higher in P5 and the budgets are much bigger. Our target is BSU, Houston, etc.

One advantage to playing in the G5 ranks, and especially the MWC right now, is that the hurdle isn't really that high. Certainly to win the conference consistently, recruiting will need to be excellent. This is where the 4 year thing comes in. You don't need stellar classes to be competitive in the MWC. You need kids like Bohl is getting and then good coaching (another topic).

You first have to get to an 8 win season or two. I'd take that in year 4. The hard part is taking that next step but I don't think that is something to worry about until we get to a couple 8+ win seasons which hopefully will start happening by year 4. This class I think will exceed expectations and are more than capable of doing that.

[wiley wapiti]

I agree with a lot of this, but we have too many people in this state that have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about when it comes to building a winner (and you all know who you are on here). All you see are stars and scoreboard, yet these are the people that are the loudest and most obnoxious, allowing the the bandwagon fans to jump on with them. traditions and championships will NEVER be just stars and scoreboards.

Bohl knows how to build a tradition and a winning program, but will the obnoxious allow him the time? Probably not, and we will be back to square one. Wyoming has been at the bottom for far too long to ever believe there will be a quick fix, yet some believe this is as easy as getting 4 &5 star guys in the next year. Sorry, its not going to happen this year, but it will never happen if we keep firing coaches every 3 years. This process may take 5-6 years with Bohl, but he will get it turned around and build a tradition.

If you people who bitch and whine with every post could understand that funding for facilities and assistant coaches are more important than stars, you might be able to start seeing the real problem that Wyoming will face forever. Until we as people of the state, understand that assistant coaches are as important as the head coach, we will NEVER build a consistent winner. Even Bobby Bowden couldn't win after all his top assistance started leaving for head jobs.

There are some of you on the board that make it an absolute nauseating experience being apart of this family, but you do have a right to your thoughts. Its just maddening to try to comprehend your lack of comprehensions yet your level of activity.

[WYCowboy]

I agree with a lot of this, but we have too many people in this state that have absolutely NO idea what they are talking about when it comes to building a winner (and you all know who you are on here). All you see are stars and scoreboard, yet these are the people that are the loudest and most obnoxious, allowing the the bandwagon fans to jump on with them. traditions and championships will NEVER be just stars and scoreboards.

Bohl knows how to build a tradition and a winning program, but will the obnoxious allow him the time? Probably not, and we will be back to square one. Wyoming has been at the bottom for far too long to ever believe there will be a quick fix, yet some believe this is as easy as getting 4 &5 star guys in the next year. Sorry, its not going to happen this year, but it will never happen if we keep firing coaches every 3 years. This process may take 5-6 years with Bohl, but he will get it turned around and build a tradition.

If you people who bitch and whine with every post could understand that funding for facilities and assistant coaches are more important than stars, you might be able to start seeing the real problem that Wyoming will face forever. Until we as people of the state, understand that assistant coaches are as important as the head coach, we will NEVER build a consistent winner. Even Bobby Bowden couldn't win after all his top assistance started leaving for head jobs.

There are some of you on the board that make it an absolute nauseating experience being apart of this family, but you do have a right to your thoughts. Its just maddening to try to comprehend your lack of comprehensions yet your level of activity.

[Cheywypoke]

Bottom line is: Bohl went 4-8 in 2014, and 2-10 in 2015. Expectations and aspirations are still high. Dreams of conference titles and national relevancy. This is year #3. All I'm saying is, recruiting arguments aside...if this team doesn't go at least 5-7 in 2016, AT LEAST....I'll begin to wonder if this is going to work.

J-Rod, I disagree here, somewhat. Considering the youth that played last year, and the potential for more youth to play in 2016, I would be ok with a 4-8 record next year. However, I would expect a 7-5, 8-4 record the next year (maybe even better if Hill is talked into staying for his sr. year). Hopefully, then we would be in a position where the team is able to continue to build through recruiting of h.s. athletes (with a few jucos where needed) and a situation where we wouldn't need to suffer through any rebuilding years in the future.

[ragtimejoe1]

Everyone was saying how at the end of last year we could beat UND and EMU.

I'm in Jrod's boat. EMU and Davis better be wins. If we can't muster 3 damn wins out of NIU + the rest of a craptastic MWC, then concern will and should be rising. Not firing Bohl or anything but damn sure concerned.

[johnywyo]

Agree with mostly what is resonating here. Not sure why we talk about the Power 5, we're not it. I think strategically what Bohl is implementing is all good. Expectations are tarnished because of what we started with, what we can't do is lose to Eastern Michigan and Montana States of the world- regardless of whats relevant. I'll be attending the Eastern Michigan game in Ypsilanti, have some friends coming out for that one. I expect to see about 6500 fans at the stadium, and it's probably the most apathetic football environment on the face of the earth. They have given up on football, my fear is if we continue on the path we've been on for the last 4-5 years we may approach that level of indifference. Many in the state have by estimation arrived at that conclusion. I like Bohl, we need to cut the cancer as it appears this coming season. If Stanard and Vigen can't develop some success; extraction. Bohl is the chief surgeon he must do what needs to be done and do it quickly. We are putting the facilities in order, training table is from a menu standpoint is looking good. 3rd recruiting class on paper points towards improvement, now the Coach's must get the job done. Hoping for a .500 season, and back to a chance at a poop bowl game. That's about all I believe is a possibility, anything else is a bonus. fwiw.

[Hampshire]

Just going to say this , they were 2 and 10 this year but of those 2 wins they were very lucky that they won those games, it could of been easily a 0 win season , very very lucky to get those .

[Wyovanian]

Just going to say this , they were 2 and 10 this year but of those 2 wins they were very lucky that they won those games, it could of been easily a 0 win season , very very lucky to get those .

May I make a suggestion? Football For Dummies.

We dominated both of those games, but then went into play-not-to-lose mode. While we were somewhat lucky the University of Nevada System didn't score in the 4th quarters of those games, neither of them was as close as the final score might've indicated. I wouldn't characterize either win as terribly "lucky"...

[Wyovanian]

Alabama did not suck. It was not Birmingham.

Bingo. Gene Stallings won a National Championship in the 90's.

Only Alabama fans thought that Alabama "sucked" because they weren't winning National Championships. 'Bama was almost always competitive in the SEC season after season...

[J-Rod]

Just going to say this , they were 2 and 10 this year but of those 2 wins they were very lucky that they won those games, it could of been easily a 0 win season , very very lucky to get those .

We can debate this both ways every single season dating back to....ever. I thought the 2011 team was lucky as f-word. Had the most insane t/o ratio and total of games won by less than a TD. On the flip side, I thought a few of Glenn's teams were awfully unlucky. Could have won 8+ games. (2005)

Wyoming could have gone 5-7 last season. They could have also gone 0-12. That's why we play the game. If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.

[Hampshire]

I wouldn't suggest that book , I watched both of those games and at the very best I would say that they could of gone either way , at best.

[yopaulie]

Alabama did not suck. It was not Birmingham.

Bingo. Gene Stallings won a National Championship in the 90's.

Only Alabama fans thought that Alabama "sucked" because they weren't winning National Championships. 'Bama was almost always competitive in the SEC season after season...

There was a short period early 2000s. I believe Alabama lost to the U of Minnesota Gophers in a mid level bowl game. That's probably the low point.

[LawPoke]

I wouldn't suggest that book , I watched both of those games and at the very best I would say that they could of gone either way , at best.

But we won, right?

I get being down about last year, but I have to give the kids credit. They fought all year. I want victories and agree we have to do better, but to turn hard fought gutty wins into losses because of your perception of how we could have lost demeans what those kids did even though the chips were down.

Will these recruits pan? Who knows. Likely some will and others won't. But so long as they are wearing brown and gold, they will have my support.

[joshvanklomp]

Alabama did not suck. It was not Birmingham.

Bingo. Gene Stallings won a National Championship in the 90's.

Only Alabama fans thought that Alabama "sucked" because they weren't winning National Championships. 'Bama was almost always competitive in the SEC season after season...

There was a short period early 2000s. I believe Alabama lost to the U of Minnesota Gophers in a mid level bowl game. That's probably the low point.

And the year before that they were 4-9.

[laxwyo]

Man , this Hampshire dude is annoying

[Wyokie]

Man , this Hampshire dude is annoying

Very annoying imo.