Ad blocker detected: Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors. Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker on our website.
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....
We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly f-word up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.
Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.
Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.
EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...
Captain Obvious shows no mercy.
Based on your comments, I assume you don't understand what deceit is. Deceit is common in these type of projects, as I mentioned in my earlier post. I bolded it for you in your post so you can see where you agreed with me. Being common practice doesn't make it acceptable. It's something I'm dissatisfied with as a Wyoming fan, but I'm not asking for Tom's job. One person jumped on Tom and you assume every dissatisfied fan feels the same way. Hopefully you see how illogical that is and won't need anyone to dumb it down for you.
de·ceit
dəˈsēt/
noun
the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.
Implying there is intent. No one in their right mind intentionally misrepresents a project or over promises. Thats how you get sued. You make a proposal based off of what the customer wants versus what they want to pay. As projects evolve those often become even further skewed until you land somewhere in the middle at a place agreeable to both parties. Asking for donations based on an initial concept only to decide the price is too expensive for the amount raised isn't deceitful or show a lack of planning on either parties part. You get what you pay for. Wyoming wasn't willing to pay for the initial proposal and the contractor wasn't willing to do the extra work for less money. I see no deceit in any of it... I see the standard back in forth involved in any construction bidding process...
AND captain obvious, the difference between estimated costs and actual costs is not deceit...
Please tell me this quote does not sound like misrepresentation. You're probably familiar with the author.
Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down...
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....
We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly f-word up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.
Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.
Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.
EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...
Captain Obvious shows no mercy.
Based on your comments, I assume you don't understand what deceit is. Deceit is common in these type of projects, as I mentioned in my earlier post. I bolded it for you in your post so you can see where you agreed with me. Being common practice doesn't make it acceptable. It's something I'm dissatisfied with as a Wyoming fan, but I'm not asking for Tom's job. One person jumped on Tom and you assume every dissatisfied fan feels the same way. Hopefully you see how illogical that is and won't need anyone to dumb it down for you.
de·ceit
dəˈsēt/
noun
the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.
Implying there is intent. No one in their right mind intentionally misrepresents a project or over promises. Thats how you get sued. You make a proposal based off of what the customer wants versus what they want to pay. As projects evolve those often become even further skewed until you land somewhere in the middle at a place agreeable to both parties. Asking for donations based on an initial concept only to decide the price is too expensive for the amount raised isn't deceitful or show a lack of planning on either parties part. You get what you pay for. Wyoming wasn't willing to pay for the initial proposal and the contractor wasn't willing to do the extra work for less money. I see no deceit in any of it... I see the standard back in forth involved in any construction bidding process...
AND captain obvious, the difference between estimated costs and actual costs is not deceit...
Please tell me this quote does not sound like misrepresentation. You're probably familiar with the author.
Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down...
Haha I have no idea who the author is. I am just a guy who can actually think things through.
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....
We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly f-word up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.
Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.
Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.
EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...
Captain Obvious shows no mercy.
Based on your comments, I assume you don't understand what deceit is. Deceit is common in these type of projects, as I mentioned in my earlier post. I bolded it for you in your post so you can see where you agreed with me. Being common practice doesn't make it acceptable. It's something I'm dissatisfied with as a Wyoming fan, but I'm not asking for Tom's job. One person jumped on Tom and you assume every dissatisfied fan feels the same way. Hopefully you see how illogical that is and won't need anyone to dumb it down for you.
de·ceit
dəˈsēt/
noun
the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.
Implying there is intent. No one in their right mind intentionally misrepresents a project or over promises. Thats how you get sued. You make a proposal based off of what the customer wants versus what they want to pay. As projects evolve those often become even further skewed until you land somewhere in the middle at a place agreeable to both parties. Asking for donations based on an initial concept only to decide the price is too expensive for the amount raised isn't deceitful or show a lack of planning on either parties part. You get what you pay for. Wyoming wasn't willing to pay for the initial proposal and the contractor wasn't willing to do the extra work for less money. I see no deceit in any of it... I see the standard back in forth involved in any construction bidding process...
AND captain obvious, the difference between estimated costs and actual costs is not deceit...
Please tell me this quote does not sound like misrepresentation. You're probably familiar with the author.
Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down...
Haha I have no idea who the author is. I am just a guy who can actually think things through.
So who in this thread has looked at the construction drawings and has any clue what is going on? Please chime in if you have. AA is going to look nice. The new concessions are going to kill what we had before. The entrance with the 18' Kenny Sailors statue is going to rule. Original Phase 2 had this terrible seating area behind the east basket that would have been the "high dollar" seats. It was terrible. We just didn't cut things, we ended up saving millions by direct bidding the project. It was the right decision every which way.
elfletcho wrote:So who in this thread has looked at the construction drawings and has any clue what is going on? Please chime in if you have. AA is going to look nice. The new concessions are going to kill what we had before. The entrance with the 18' Kenny Sailors statue is going to rule. Original Phase 2 had this terrible seating area behind the east basket that would have been the "high dollar" seats. It was terrible. We just didn't cut things, we ended up saving millions by direct bidding the project. It was the right decision every which way.
How much of this information was made available to the public? How can anyone make an informed comment on this construction without having access to the information?
You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage him/her.
Aren't there some individuals that post here that are privy to that kind of information? A know there are at least 1 or 2 posters that are members of the fan advisory council, they may have been able to see updated plans. There are also a few posters that work at the University, but I would imagine they either aren't involved with those type of things or they won't comment unless they find it necessary.
WestWYOPoke wrote:Aren't there some individuals that post here that are privy to that kind of information? A know there are at least 1 or 2 posters that are members of the fan advisory council, they may have been able to see updated plans. There are also a few posters that work at the University, but I would imagine they either aren't involved with those type of things or they won't comment unless they find it necessary.
Why hasn't anyone seen those plans? All we've seen is the plans at the beginning of this thread. Are there more plans than that, with better CG photos?
It makes it appear that the A.D. is intentionally holding them back because he sold plan A, a beautiful glass structure, and is building plan B...a half sized brick structure.
I think there's a reason why we haven't viewed better plans: it will piss a lot of people off when they see the final product after being sold the original plan.
Wyoming Cowboy basketball:
National Champions 1943.
Helm's foundation National Champions 1934.
NCAA tournament MVP and two time College Basketball Player of the Year Kenny Sailors, who is credited with inventing the jump shot.
Burman interview on the Zone talking about how the project changed in scope. I think people that saw the first Phase 2 drawing will always look at the current phase 2 expansion as an abject failure. We came up 4 million short and decreased square footage by almost a factor of 2, while eliminating the club section, and making the entryway pedestrian instead of the grand, glass entryway of the older plan?
It doesn't make sense. How much of the money from the AA did they divert to the HAPC?
