Why can Air Force field a competitive team

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calpoke25
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SnowyRange wrote:Good god.

Was he a "better coach" when AF went 2-10 in his 7th year?
He has a record of 67-47 over 9 years. I'll stick with the larger sample size.

And if you take out the one statistical outlier, the 2-10 season, he has a record of 65-37.
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MrTitleist
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SDPokeFan wrote:Air Force has to recruit undersized guys, fringe athletes that also have to endure the rigors of being at an academy, and then smack around Boise in Boise and are good year-in, year-out. Meanwhile, we can't field a team that could beat Sheridan. Someone has to explain this to me.

:willybs:
Fringe athletes? Are you crazy? These guys go through basic training before they even get to the football field and every single cadet is required to play a sport, these aren't "fringe athletes" everyone has to be an athlete to be at AFA.
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MrTitleist
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AFA has success for a few reasons, in my opinion.
1. They play within themselves. They run the triple option because it best utilizes the size of their athletes. The OL neutralizes much bigger defensive lines because they cut block on literally every single play.. takes the DL right out of the game and allows the smaller HBs to get into space. They don't try to do too much. If AFA was allowed or able to recruit like regular schools they wouldn't be running the triple option.

2. Athletes are VERY well trained.. AFA can't recruit stupid Jim Bob that Alabama can, AFA has to recruit the brightest. That's why they're a top 25 academic university in the country. Intelligence on the football field translates to success on the football field.

3. AFA is very difficult to prepare for. How do you prepare, in one week, for a team that's going to flip the ball all around the backfield with guys in motion on every play, meanwhile thinking, "oh poop, I hope they don't chop my knees out." They're a specialized offense, not a standard West Coast or zone-read offense you see out of 90% of college offenses. That's why you see AFA scare the hell out of teams like Oklahoma, Michigan, etc because you only get a week to prepare for something you'll see once over the course of several years.
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BeaverPoke
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BackHarlowRoad wrote: You make it sound like Calhoun puts out a sheet of paper and whoever signs up is in.

What? That's not even a little bit what I was getting at.
If you ever need to laugh, just remember there was some idiot who wanted Bohl fired after 2 seasons.
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fromolwyoming
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MrTitleist wrote:AFA has success for a few reasons, in my opinion.
1. They play within themselves. They run the triple option because it best utilizes the size of their athletes. The OL neutralizes much bigger defensive lines because they cut block on literally every single play.. takes the DL right out of the game and allows the smaller HBs to get into space. They don't try to do too much. If AFA was allowed or able to recruit like regular schools they wouldn't be running the triple option.

2. Athletes are VERY well trained.. AFA can't recruit stupid Jim Bob that Alabama can, AFA has to recruit the brightest. That's why they're a top 25 academic university in the country. Intelligence on the football field translates to success on the football field.

3. AFA is very difficult to prepare for. How do you prepare, in one week, for a team that's going to flip the ball all around the backfield with guys in motion on every play, meanwhile thinking, "oh poop, I hope they don't chop my knees out." They're a specialized offense, not a standard West Coast or zone-read offense you see out of 90% of college offenses. That's why you see AFA scare the hell out of teams like Oklahoma, Michigan, etc because you only get a week to prepare for something you'll see once over the course of several years.
Though teams like Notre Dame, who plays Navy and Army about every year, sees it all the time. And for some reason Stanard does better (until Wacha went down) against Air Force's triple option than other offenses.

BSU though, they have lost to Air Force 2 years running and lost to a triple option team 3 times (including UNM) in the last 2 years because their coach won't prepare for it for some reason.
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kansasCowboy
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calpoke25 wrote:
kansasCowboy wrote:Hill is a great example of this. He had to come in halfway through last year and with his talent learned what the coaches wanted of him in his position, this year he had that knowledge, that game time experience and he excelled in the system. The others will follow in that direction as well.

Not an excuse.
Are you saying that Hill is the rule, not the exception? Because I think Hill is the exception, not the rule. RB is by far the easiest position to plug in and play. Your argument is that HIll came in last year, struggled, and now is good this year through his struggles learning to play as a freshman and we can expect this from the whole team? I seem to remember him setting single game records last year. I'd argue it was obvious last year Hill was good, and he proved it right away. If our whole team was filled with Brian Hills at their respective position, I'm pretty sure we would've been good right away.
No, I'm not saying he struggled last year. That's why I mentioned his talent in there. But he even had an interview at fall ball talking about the difference for him personally between what was expected of him this year compared to last. He mentioned that it was more about running the exact route last year that the coaches wanted him too, and this year the coaches were comfortable with his knowledge of the offense and knew what he could do in his game time experience that they were more willing to let him run off the routes if need be. He even talked about his boost in confidence knowing and understanding the O his Frosh year compared to understanding it through a RS, or limited playing time.
I'm sure Price and Parker will be light years better at understanding their routes and blocking schemes next year at WR compared to had they RS'd. Our DB's and Safeties will be the same.
These guys have gotten 8-12 games of real D1 football at a young age compared to AF JV's playing against NAIA's , D2's and other JV's.
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laxwyo
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Someone tell me how Nevada is beating Utah St's ass right now?
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fromolwyoming
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laxwyo wrote:Someone tell me how Nevada is beating Utah St's ass right now?
The MWC is a real cluster f-word this year?
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And Utah st. woke up
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MSU knocked off Ohio State.
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The Citadel beat South Carolina and Florida beat FAU in OT
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djm19
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All about discipline. Military schools are a disciplined bunch. When it comes to sports, most of them are methodical and wear opponents down. Sure that comes from coaching, but I think a lot of it comes from what they have to go through off the field.
ragtimejoe1
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Basically you just said the same thing.
Question: how many 18-19 yr olds do they have playing on Saturday?
The majority of AFs players on Saturday and jr and sr, with a few Soph in there to fill the depth.

Question2: what are their 18-19 yr olds doing? They practice altogether, but they get game time experience each year to engrain themselves into the offense and defensive system that they will use when they play varsity. What do our 18-19 yr olds do? They get to play for the varsity this year, but mostly they RS and practice sparingly, workout and do schooling. So would our RS be as prepared as an AF FR or Soph that get to play 10 or 11 games of their own?
I think their JV helps them immensely when it comes to them being prepared to play for the real AF team. Hence why they always seem to be right on track after they lose several senior starters and have NO big names coming back the next year.
This is why I think with all of our Frosh, RS Frosh, and Soph playing this year will benefit us in the long run. We are the equivalent of the AFA JV team playing in the MWC this year. I think our guys are getting a vast majority experience in real games and are being engrained in the system at the same time.
Yeah, it makes for a disgusting year, but these guys will be better for it. Hill is a great example of this. He had to come in halfway through last year and with his talent learned what the coaches wanted of him in his position, this year he had that knowledge, that game time experience and he excelled in the system. The others will follow in that direction as well.

Not an excuse.
For 1, what percentage of players that hit the field were senior, junior, etc. Surely you have this information since you made that claim. Either way, lack of seniority might (stress might) be our current problem (I hope it is) but we've fielded a lot of teams composed primarily of seniors, juniors, and sophomores that were not good.

For 2, whoa! Kansas just solved our problems. We need to give Freshmen live action against 4 or 5 prep/high schools. There we go. Problem solved. Burman make it happen. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Put all the AF "perks" and restrictions at WYO and we'd never win a game. Bottom line.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
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kansasCowboy
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ragtimejoe1 wrote:

Basically you just said the same thing.
Question: how many 18-19 yr olds do they have playing on Saturday?
The majority of AFs players on Saturday and jr and sr, with a few Soph in there to fill the depth.

Question2: what are their 18-19 yr olds doing? They practice altogether, but they get game time experience each year to engrain themselves into the offense and defensive system that they will use when they play varsity. What do our 18-19 yr olds do? They get to play for the varsity this year, but mostly they RS and practice sparingly, workout and do schooling. So would our RS be as prepared as an AF FR or Soph that get to play 10 or 11 games of their own?
I think their JV helps them immensely when it comes to them being prepared to play for the real AF team. Hence why they always seem to be right on track after they lose several senior starters and have NO big names coming back the next year.
This is why I think with all of our Frosh, RS Frosh, and Soph playing this year will benefit us in the long run. We are the equivalent of the AFA JV team playing in the MWC this year. I think our guys are getting a vast majority experience in real games and are being engrained in the system at the same time.
Yeah, it makes for a disgusting year, but these guys will be better for it. Hill is a great example of this. He had to come in halfway through last year and with his talent learned what the coaches wanted of him in his position, this year he had that knowledge, that game time experience and he excelled in the system. The others will follow in that direction as well.

Not an excuse.
For 1, what percentage of players that hit the field were senior, junior, etc. Surely you have this information since you made that claim. Either way, lack of seniority might (stress might) be our current problem (I hope it is) but we've fielded a lot of teams composed primarily of seniors, juniors, and sophomores that were not good.

For 2, whoa! Kansas just solved our problems. We need to give Freshmen live action against 4 or 5 prep/high schools. There we go. Problem solved. Burman make it happen. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Put all the AF "perks" and restrictions at WYO and we'd never win a game. Bottom line.
You really do try to pick fights, don't you?
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WYO_Fan_inPA
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This is a very interesting thread topic.

I think a short answer is coaching and recruiting. WYO is stuck in a rut right now in coaching. I believe the players are there, they just must be utilized.
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kansasCowboy wrote:
ragtimejoe1 wrote:

Basically you just said the same thing.
Question: how many 18-19 yr olds do they have playing on Saturday?
The majority of AFs players on Saturday and jr and sr, with a few Soph in there to fill the depth.

Question2: what are their 18-19 yr olds doing? They practice altogether, but they get game time experience each year to engrain themselves into the offense and defensive system that they will use when they play varsity. What do our 18-19 yr olds do? They get to play for the varsity this year, but mostly they RS and practice sparingly, workout and do schooling. So would our RS be as prepared as an AF FR or Soph that get to play 10 or 11 games of their own?
I think their JV helps them immensely when it comes to them being prepared to play for the real AF team. Hence why they always seem to be right on track after they lose several senior starters and have NO big names coming back the next year.
This is why I think with all of our Frosh, RS Frosh, and Soph playing this year will benefit us in the long run. We are the equivalent of the AFA JV team playing in the MWC this year. I think our guys are getting a vast majority experience in real games and are being engrained in the system at the same time.
Yeah, it makes for a disgusting year, but these guys will be better for it. Hill is a great example of this. He had to come in halfway through last year and with his talent learned what the coaches wanted of him in his position, this year he had that knowledge, that game time experience and he excelled in the system. The others will follow in that direction as well.

Not an excuse.
For 1, what percentage of players that hit the field were senior, junior, etc. Surely you have this information since you made that claim. Either way, lack of seniority might (stress might) be our current problem (I hope it is) but we've fielded a lot of teams composed primarily of seniors, juniors, and sophomores that were not good.

For 2, whoa! Kansas just solved our problems. We need to give Freshmen live action against 4 or 5 prep/high schools. There we go. Problem solved. Burman make it happen. Forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

Put all the AF "perks" and restrictions at WYO and we'd never win a game. Bottom line.
You really do try to pick fights, don't you?

:lol: :popcorn:
If you ever need to laugh, just remember there was some idiot who wanted Bohl fired after 2 seasons.
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ragtimejoe1
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kansasCowboy wrote:
You really do try to pick fights, don't you?
So you don't have that info? Sorry I just disagree with ridiculous notions like 4 or 5 prep school games are why AF has been more successful than us.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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Hey guys, new to the forum here so be gentle. I was reading through a bunch of the threads and this one got me thinking. Coach Bohl was very successful at NDSU so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for at least two seasons. To my way of thinking, it's all about recruiting. As we all know, recruiting is the lifeblood of any program and, to be successful at it, you really have to master the art AND the science. Too many staffa are great at one but not the other. Quality football programs are good at establishing an identity and then recruiting to that identity. In other words, they don't pretend to be something that they're not.
Air Force, not unlike the other academies, is unique in that its identity is pretty much established for them. They have to find hard working, intelligent, athletes who typically have a chip on their shoulder because they felt under-recruited. It's unlikely you'll find an "entitled" football player at AF. They get the gig from day one and the effort they put into the weight room and on the practice field is no different than what they put into the classroom and into their military preparation. The coaches at AF are really no different. Most of them are former military officers so that same work ethic was inculcated years ago.
What is Wyoming's identity? What kind of kids are they trying to recruit? Do those kids contribute to a cohesive locker room? I don't know the answer so I'm really asking the question(s). I think Bohl and his staff did a great job at NDSU because they knew who they were. They relied on the big strong country boys from the Dakotas, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Nebraska. Sure, they'd pluck an "athlete" out of Texas or California once and a while but that was really the exception. More importantly, it didn't change the team culture at all. The same principles apply at Alabama, USC, BYU, or even a school like Harvard. Recruit to your strengths and don't waste so much energy trying to shore up your weaknesses.
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Welcome coach. I think Bohl believes exactly what you state and that he can build a unique identity here at WYO.

When our "Powder River Let 'er Buck" identity was winding down, Burman, said we needed a unique system and unique identity to compete at WYO. We couldn't recruit well enough to line up and run people over. Then, he hires DC to bring that innovative and unique identity to WYO. After DC fails, Burman hires Bohl to develop WYO kids, embrace "Cowboy Tough", and develop a smash mouth identity that WYO can be proud of.

Me? I think it is all poop (the slogan and forced ideology stuff--not your post). A bunch of crap to put on bumper stickers and T-Shirts. A program is built on the backs of good coaches with good recruiting ties. Like Bob Stoops says, "surround yourself with guys who could be head coaches elsewhere". Winning is an identity and so is losing.

Instead of taking the 2 million or so profit the football team currently makes, invest it in coaches' salaries. Pretty soon your team will be earning far more than 2 million. $500-$600K/coordinator position/year will get you a decent OC and DC to Laramie, and they will have a good recruiting network. $200K will get you Stanard.

I get your point, and I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but I think the BSU model is the best in the G5 ranks. Get the best players you can get and then adjust your system to capitalize on their strengths.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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