BIG XII Expansion

[poke_addict]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

[joshvanklomp]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

I don't think CU consulted the Big XII before they decided to move. It wasn't the conference's call.

[Wyokie]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

I don't think CU consulted the Big XII before they decided to move. It wasn't the conference's call.

They didn't. CU left because they were royally pissed at Texas! Same with Nebraska!!!!

[JimmyDimes]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

If the Big12 chooses CSU because of Denver, they surely would have had the wool pulled over their eyes. I believe Wyoming gets better college football rankings in the Denver market than CSU does.

[KC_Cowboy1990]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

There is some merit to this but: First post in here but I grew up in Kansas City and attended The University of Kansas before transferring to Wyoming so I know the Big 12 very well and the pulse around it. Denver was never a great media market for collegiate sports towards the end. Just because a media market is big doesn't mean it's favorable for college football (ie. New York City). Denver always seemed apathetic towards anything but the Broncos. CU leaving was kind of a mutual breakup. Their athletic program, academics, students, and campus culture are more akin to the Pac 12. Now Lawrence, KS is the undisputed champion of where you can find Liberal Californian transplants that get into 3 hour drum circles.

the but part... Every since the BCS went away, and the new 4-team playoff format begun, Denver is in the top 20 fastest growing metered markets for the national championship game. That kind of doesn't mean much out of context because that could mean 10000 people watched the game in 2014, now 20000 watched in 2015. That's a 100% increase! Right, but, it's still only 20000 people. So I am not sure what to do with ESPN's ambiguous reporting... Nonetheless, nobody has lost much sleep after losing our presence in the Rockies.

[Wyovanian]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

I don't think CU consulted the Big XII before they decided to move. It wasn't the conference's call.

Meh, there were some mild efforts to keep CU, but at the end of the day, Texas didn't give a sh-t so, b-bye CU.

The Big 12's got one big Sword of Damocles hanging over them, and that's the very real possibility that if the PAC-12 decides to expand to 14 teams, most likely it will be Texas and Oklahoma that go. It's the one serious reason for looking at expanding to 14 so that in the event that happens, they're still at 12 teams.

One could argue that the best thing that COULD happen would be for Texas and OU to move to the Pac-12. It would eventually bring stability and pretty much end the whole realignment game. That being said, if I was the Big 12 and was looking at the Denver media market, I'd probably have to look rather seriously at all four Front Range Schools and consider bringing in not one, but two of them, along with Houston and Cincinnati. Albuquerque's a medium market, so the three teams that could deliver the Denver market is any combination of AFA, CSEwe, and UW.

While it would suck to lose CSEwe to the Big 12, especially as they are our rival in the truest sense, unlike BYU* I'm pretty sure neither school would be uninterested in still scheduling each other going forward. Whenever one's faced with an undesirable outcome, the best you can do is plan for the highest level of the best possible next outcome, and hopefully creating a more tenable and opportunistic position.

[Wyovanian]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

If the Big12 chooses CSU because of Denver, they surely would have had the wool pulled over their eyes. I believe Wyoming gets better college football rankings in the Denver market than CSU does.

I honestly think you might be right. The Sheep have always struggled to inspire enthusiasm in their potential fan base, while UW, although half the size of CSEWe consistently offers evidence of higher fan interest.

[LanderPoke]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

There is some merit to this but: First post in here but I grew up in Kansas City and attended The University of Kansas before transferring to Wyoming so I know the Big 12 very well and the pulse around it. Denver was never a great media market for collegiate sports towards the end. Just because a media market is big doesn't mean it's favorable for college football (ie. New York City). Denver always seemed apathetic towards anything but the Broncos. CU leaving was kind of a mutual breakup. Their athletic program, academics, students, and campus culture are more akin to the Pac 12. Now Lawrence, KS is the undisputed champion of where you can find Liberal Californian transplants that get into 3 hour drum circles.

the but part... Every since the BCS went away, and the new 4-team playoff format begun, Denver is in the top 20 fastest growing metered markets for the national championship game. That kind of doesn't mean much out of context because that could mean 10000 people watched the game in 2014, now 20000 watched in 2015. That's a 100% increase! Right, but, it's still only 20000 people. So I am not sure what to do with ESPN's ambiguous reporting... Nonetheless, nobody has lost much sleep after losing our presence in the Rockies.

Weird. I would not have thought Lawrence, KS is that kind of place.

[Coeur d' Alene]

s: Mountain West needs to be expanding as well. Houston BYU Wichita and Gonzaga.
Step 2- long besan, pepperdine,san francisco denver. Then figure out if you want another texas school weather it's all paso smu . I think you want tulane

[joshvanklomp]

I mean if the Big XII really cared about the Denver market why did they ever let CU leave? They already had the biggest collegiate draw in the state of Colorado. Don't even start to claim that CSU is a better fit than CU already was. CU's history, facilities, and fan base trump the sheep. Why would the Big XII take a considerable downgrade in a market they already had their hands in?

If the Big12 chooses CSU because of Denver, they surely would have had the wool pulled over their eyes. I believe Wyoming gets better college football rankings in the Denver market than CSU does.

Denver wouldn't add a Big XII Network to its cable packages if Wyoming joined the conference, but they would for CSU. That's the difference.

[wyokoke]

s: Mountain West needs to be expanding as well. Houston BYU Wichita and Gonzaga.
Step 2- long besan, pepperdine,san francisco denver. Then figure out if you want another texas school weather it's all paso smu . I think you want tulane

"all paso"

[Coeur d' Alene]

s: Mountain West needs to be expanding as well. Houston BYU Wichita and Gonzaga.
Step 2- long besan, pepperdine,san francisco denver. Then figure out if you want another texas school weather it's all paso smu . I think you want tulane

"all paso"

Voice typing, no proofread.

Do you think the mwc should expand?

[KC_Cowboy1990]

s: Mountain West needs to be expanding as well. Houston BYU Wichita and Gonzaga.
Step 2- long besan, pepperdine,san francisco denver. Then figure out if you want another texas school weather it's all paso smu . I think you want tulane

Houston and BYU might not be options for the MW at this point considering their on the short-list of names the Big 12 is talking to.

I think that's a more realistic approach, for the MW to expand and retain the teams it already has but only if the teams have the merit. SJSU is a dumpster fire addition. UTEP and Montana would be ideal but a lot of Grizz fans would rather be a top dog in FCS instead of taking their chances in FBS and possibly end up like Idaho. UTEP really doesn't add many eyeballs even though it's in Texas but that opens up a recruiting pipeline in the most prosperous state in the country. SMU would be nice but let's see what happens when the dust settles with the whole sudden retirement of Larry Brown and the NCAA starting to investigate.

[joshvanklomp]

UTEP and Montana would be ideal but a lot of Grizz fans would rather be a top dog in FCS instead of taking their chances in FBS and possibly end up like Idaho.

I don't know if Montana would have the same problems as Idaho. Just doing a quick comparison, Missoula is twice as large as Moscow. Missoula is second-largest city in MT while Moscow is 12th in Idaho. That alone makes a big difference. Montana is THE state school, while Idaho is at best second fiddle to BSU.

[Coeur d' Alene]

Montana should be a never. there are lots of real schools to talk about. the Moscow Pullman area also has the city of Spokane and Coeur d'Alene. Gonzaga could bring a pretty big Market Spokane is more Gonzaga than Washington State Cougar area

[Coeur d' Alene]

media markets are a big deal my plan Rings Denver Houston Los Angeles San Francisco in addition to Spokane and Wichita and the Salt Lake Valley into the Mountain West. you never want a Montana or a Dakota school you want teams big cities that have high potential to become good. Long Beach State could become a good school with the right help from a conference. a school that doesn't take football Revenue but could become a good basketball school as well as a good school for All Sports overall. if you take the Montana Grizzlies you're hoping they can still have 20,000 people show up after they don't go 11 and one every year

[joshvanklomp]

you never want a Montana or a Dakota school you want teams big cities that have high potential to become good.

So reading this, I take it you don't want Wyoming in the Mountain West?

[KC_Cowboy1990]

media markets are a big deal my plan Rings Denver Houston Los Angeles San Francisco in addition to Spokane and Wichita and the Salt Lake Valley into the Mountain West. you never want a Montana or a Dakota school you want teams big cities that have high potential to become good. Long Beach State could become a good school with the right help from a conference. a school that doesn't take football Revenue but could become a good basketball school as well as a good school for All Sports overall. if you take the Montana Grizzlies you're hoping they can still have 20,000 people show up after they don't go 11 and one every year

I couldn't disagree more. San Jose State is within one of the nations largest media markets and have no pull in the Bay Area. They play like 11th fiddle to 2 NFL teams, an NBA team 2 years removed from a title, MLB team with 3 World Series wins in the last 15 years, Stanford, Cal, and so on. Conferences don't go through all the hassle of re-alignment to add a basketball-only school like Gonzaga unless it's the Big East whose members are primarily if not exclusively small, private, high-brow Parochial colleges. The Big 12 added West Virginia because the large and loyal fanbase, historically relevant in both football and basketball, dedicated Alumni, and the facilities were already there. West Virginia wasn't added because maybe that would draw a few extra eyeballs from the closest metropolitan area; Pittsburgh PA.

Montana is historically relevant at the FCS level, large loyal fanbase, geographical makes sense, academic profile akin to most MW schools, and all UM would have to do is add like 5000 extra seats to their football stadium. But if UM's boosters and administration is not willing to take 1 step backwards to potentially take 2-3 steps forward, that's their prerogative. Don't gamble with scared money.

[MrTitleist]

Montana is historically relevant at the FCS level, large loyal fanbase, geographical makes sense, academic profile akin to most MW schools, and all UM would have to do is add like 5000 extra seats to their football stadium. But if UM's boosters and administration is not willing to take 1 step backwards to potentially take 2-3 steps forward, that's their prerogative. Don't gamble with scared money.

You would think Montana would want to follow in Georgia Southern and Appalachian State's footsteps, or future Fun Belt member Coastal Carolina.. alas, the Griz are FCS for the foreseeable future.

[joshvanklomp]

Montana is historically relevant at the FCS level, large loyal fanbase, geographical makes sense, academic profile akin to most MW schools, and all UM would have to do is add like 5000 extra seats to their football stadium. But if UM's boosters and administration is not willing to take 1 step backwards to potentially take 2-3 steps forward, that's their prerogative. Don't gamble with scared money.

I've always thought that Wyoming has more in common with the Montana schools and the Dakota schools than they do with many of the schools in the Mountain West. This has nothing to do with the on-the-field product either, just how I view the institutions themselves from afar.

I know that Wyoming has a deep tradition with CSU and other current MWC opponents, and I understand the perception of "moving down" to team up with these schools could hurt fan support and other things but that's just my opinion. Just as a hypothetical, I think a conference with Wyoming, USU, AFA, UTEP, UNM, NMSU, Montana, MSU, NDSU, UND, SoDakSU, USD could be a really competitive regional league.

I know there will be some eye rolls and some angry retorts after this post, so let me have it.