Faculty and their Hatred of Athletics

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LanderPoke
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DVDA wrote:Does Wyoming break even on athletics? If it does, football is the #1 reason why. Some donate because of men's basketball, but the majority of donations to athletics are for football. Cash cows get paid; Academics don't.
I think it's close. The same definitely can't be said about the rest of the school. Granted the objective of the University isn't to make money, but it's hard to complain about athletics when they add so much to the university and almost pay for themselves.

And diversity? Don't professors and staff love that poop? Athletics brings a lot of diversity to the campus.
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SDPokeFan
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It's pretty simple. The football team better start winning, and winning now, or it could be the end for the program and any hope of competing in the future.
nashvillepoke
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40k per year seems a little high for a woman's studies professor.
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WestWYOPoke
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Two-million dollars.
That's more than twice what Craig Bohl makes.
Two-million dollars.
That's only 28% of what Nick Saban makes every year at Alabama.
Two-million dollars.
In 2015, at least 55 NCAA Division I head coaches made this much.
Two-million dollars.
That is the AVERAGE salary of a Division I head coach...AVERAGE!
Two-million dollars...STFU
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spindoctor02
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I'll start this with a simple statement that I'm one of the 'blowhards' you guys are complaining about (not at UW, but at a university of similar enrollment). I am not intimately familiar with the current situation at UW, since I left, but from an academic side of things, the top research faculty are either leaving or not coming in the first place, because of the lower salaries and funding support by the university. If they can do the research at a different school with better support, they'll leave. It's that simple. You wouldn't do your current job, if you could do it somewhere else for more money and support.

The problem with most universities today (from a faculty side of things) isn't necessarily athletics. Sometimes posts like this get made, because that number ($1 million) is an easy target. However, there has been a shift recently that more administrators = more success. One thing she should have commented on is how many support staff were laid off or reassigned to support one more VP of _________. Each one of those VPs are pulling in 6-figure salaries, easily, and has anything ever been accomplished by having more bosses?

The problem isn't athletics, as the expeditures spent on those contracts normally are revenue-neutral. The problem is that state and federal funding of higher education has been on a slow decline for 30+ years, combined with a shifting of those few dollars to more adminstrators.
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spindoctor02
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nashvillepoke wrote:40k per year seems a little high for a woman's studies professor.
First, no professor is making $40k a year. While public salaries are public, my guess is that if she is a starting Associate Professor (pre-tenure) she's probably making $60-70k starting.

Second, nobody gets into education for the money. That 4-8 years of grad school to get the masters and Ph.D really puts a dent into your earning potential, when you can't start actively making a living wage until your late 20s/early 30s.

Lastly, your comment is incredibly condescending. Nobody bitches about your job (whatever it is) and how much you make doing it.
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spindoctor02
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One last comment regarding the thread title...it's a bit of an over-reaction. Some of the biggest supporters of athletics I know are academics and active faculty. They are the ones that live in the community, have families in the community, and support the local teams/economy. I would safely guess that there are hundreds of faculty/staff with season tickets to either basketball, football, or both. Just because one lady posts something to the faculty/staff listserv, doesn't make it the case all the way around.

Just today, I had 4 emails from the faculty listserv of people complaining about a new speed bump on campus. The listserv are just the new digital watercooler.

Now, if this was a message being supported by the Faculty Senate, then you can really start bitching. Until then, it's just mindless whining.
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stymeman
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but if a school or we don't pay close to 1mil then we'll really suck then huh???? the times we live in
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nashvillepoke wrote:40k per year seems a little high for a woman's studies professor.
:lol:
elfletcho
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spindoctor02 wrote:One last comment regarding the thread title...it's a bit of an over-reaction. Some of the biggest supporters of athletics I know are academics and active faculty. They are the ones that live in the community, have families in the community, and support the local teams/economy. I would safely guess that there are hundreds of faculty/staff with season tickets to either basketball, football, or both. Just because one lady posts something to the faculty/staff listserv, doesn't make it the case all the way around.

Just today, I had 4 emails from the faculty listserv of people complaining about a new speed bump on campus. The listserv are just the new digital watercooler.

Now, if this was a message being supported by the Faculty Senate, then you can really start bitching. Until then, it's just mindless whining.
I can tell you that one of the main proponents of this message is in fact a leader in faculty senate. The writer of this specific email wasn't faculty but staff, thus the lower salary. I could have posted numerous other emails, this one just got under my skin for some reason. I agree that there are numerous faculty that support athletics, however they do not speak up for fear of being ridiculed. This vocal (perhaps) minority have shown their ire and hatred for anything athletics. It's gotten very bad. They have written some very nasty and hateful emails regarding athletics and there is no rebuttal from this supposed silent majority. It is quite the echo chamber.
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spindoctor02 wrote:I'll start this with a simple statement that I'm one of the 'blowhards' you guys are complaining about (not at UW, but at a university of similar enrollment). I am not intimately familiar with the current situation at UW, since I left, but from an academic side of things, the top research faculty are either leaving or not coming in the first place, because of the lower salaries and funding support by the university. If they can do the research at a different school with better support, they'll leave. It's that simple. You wouldn't do your current job, if you could do it somewhere else for more money and support.
Wrong! I work Dept of Corrections in Kansas. And I would prefer to work in Kansas with a DOC that is safer and has better facilities, even though overcrowded at a pay rate that ranks 37 out of 50 states. Rather than working in the overcrowded and dangerous facilities in, let's say California where a typical CO will more than double my pay starting out. And I'm sure Cali DOC has great support from its state. But most will never make a career of it do to the harshness and hazards of the field. Whereas, a good majority of Officers in Kansas will have long standing careers.
I'm sure the rates wyoming gives faculty is comprable to most. And I'm sure they are nowhere near the worst. But if they feel they deserve more, I guess it's time to make that move to Cali, just hope it's really what they wanted...

And we can talk of layoffs as well. In fact my facility was just given it's notice in June that it would be shut down. That requires a move of my part, but a continued career within the state of Kansas. It happens to us all. I'm not crying that my facility was closed down and another got more money. Just like how a professor who goes to the majority of schools will make 50-100k a year and those pesky football coaches at the same majority of schools will still make close to a million more than them... Or more! Just the nature of the beast.
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kansasCowboy wrote:
spindoctor02 wrote:I'll start this with a simple statement that I'm one of the 'blowhards' you guys are complaining about (not at UW, but at a university of similar enrollment). I am not intimately familiar with the current situation at UW, since I left, but from an academic side of things, the top research faculty are either leaving or not coming in the first place, because of the lower salaries and funding support by the university. If they can do the research at a different school with better support, they'll leave. It's that simple. You wouldn't do your current job, if you could do it somewhere else for more money and support.
Wrong! I work Dept of Corrections in Kansas. And I would prefer to work in Kansas with a DOC that is safer and has better facilities, even though overcrowded at a pay rate that ranks 37 out of 50 states. Rather than working in the overcrowded and dangerous facilities in, let's say California where a typical CO will more than double my pay starting out. And I'm sure Cali DOC has great support from its state. But most will never make a career of it do to the harshness and hazards of the field. Whereas, a good majority of Officers in Kansas will have long standing careers.
I'm sure the rates wyoming gives faculty is comprable to most. And I'm sure they are nowhere near the worst. But if they feel they deserve more, I guess it's time to make that move to Cali, just hope it's really what they wanted...

And we can talk of layoffs as well. In fact my facility was just given it's notice in June that it would be shut down. That requires a move of my part, but a continued career within the state of Kansas. It happens to us all. I'm not crying that my facility was closed down and another got more money. Just like how a professor who goes to the majority of schools will make 50-100k a year and those pesky football coaches at the same majority of schools will still make close to a million more than them... Or more! Just the nature of the beast.
It all depends on the individual and what they believe is important. I am retired after 35 years with a company that offered me a big promotion to go to California for an engineering job. I turned the job down to stay in Wyoming. For me, the Wyoming life style and friends here are more important.
You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage him/her.
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alyssa
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Cure the stress and frustration.
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The best part ( or funniest) of Craig Bohl's earning last year is that he earned the same amount per win as Nick Saban. Both earned approximately 500k per win. Hoping for a lower per win salary for Bohl this year, maybe 150k per win or so!
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spindoctor02
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kansasCowboy wrote:
spindoctor02 wrote:I'll start this with a simple statement that I'm one of the 'blowhards' you guys are complaining about (not at UW, but at a university of similar enrollment). I am not intimately familiar with the current situation at UW, since I left, but from an academic side of things, the top research faculty are either leaving or not coming in the first place, because of the lower salaries and funding support by the university. If they can do the research at a different school with better support, they'll leave. It's that simple. You wouldn't do your current job, if you could do it somewhere else for more money and support.
Wrong! I work Dept of Corrections in Kansas. And I would prefer to work in Kansas with a DOC that is safer and has better facilities, even though overcrowded at a pay rate that ranks 37 out of 50 states. Rather than working in the overcrowded and dangerous facilities in, let's say California where a typical CO will more than double my pay starting out. And I'm sure Cali DOC has great support from its state. But most will never make a career of it do to the harshness and hazards of the field. Whereas, a good majority of Officers in Kansas will have long standing careers.
I'm sure the rates wyoming gives faculty is comprable to most. And I'm sure they are nowhere near the worst. But if they feel they deserve more, I guess it's time to make that move to Cali, just hope it's really what they wanted...

And we can talk of layoffs as well. In fact my facility was just given it's notice in June that it would be shut down. That requires a move of my part, but a continued career within the state of Kansas. It happens to us all. I'm not crying that my facility was closed down and another got more money. Just like how a professor who goes to the majority of schools will make 50-100k a year and those pesky football coaches at the same majority of schools will still make close to a million more than them... Or more! Just the nature of the beast.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you either have family ties or grew up in Kansas. For academic faculty, it is very rare to find a position in our field in our "home" state, or even in a region where we have family. There just isn't that many jobs to go around, so you go where the availability is. You also likely end up moving fairly frequently (depending on your position). It's much harder to set down roots when you are on a year-to-year contract or fully supported by "soft-money" (i.e. private grants) for your salary, and that money can dry up at any point, without much you can do about it.

Sure, you could have left Kansas for slightly more money, but that doesn't factor in moving costs, and costs to displace your family. When you factor those in, the differences in salary aren't significant, so why move? For an academic, it can be the difference between a paycheck and not, so it's a bit more of a concern. I'd love to get back to Wyoming and work in the state near family, but at present, there is exactly one position at the university for what I do, and it's currently filled.

Just in the last 10 years, since I left Wyoming, I've lived in 5 different places and been in three different departments at 2 different schools. And I've been pretty lucky to be that stable.
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spindoctor02
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elfletcho wrote:
spindoctor02 wrote:One last comment regarding the thread title...it's a bit of an over-reaction. Some of the biggest supporters of athletics I know are academics and active faculty. They are the ones that live in the community, have families in the community, and support the local teams/economy. I would safely guess that there are hundreds of faculty/staff with season tickets to either basketball, football, or both. Just because one lady posts something to the faculty/staff listserv, doesn't make it the case all the way around.

Just today, I had 4 emails from the faculty listserv of people complaining about a new speed bump on campus. The listserv are just the new digital watercooler.

Now, if this was a message being supported by the Faculty Senate, then you can really start bitching. Until then, it's just mindless whining.
I can tell you that one of the main proponents of this message is in fact a leader in faculty senate. The writer of this specific email wasn't faculty but staff, thus the lower salary. I could have posted numerous other emails, this one just got under my skin for some reason. I agree that there are numerous faculty that support athletics, however they do not speak up for fear of being ridiculed. This vocal (perhaps) minority have shown their ire and hatred for anything athletics. It's gotten very bad. They have written some very nasty and hateful emails regarding athletics and there is no rebuttal from this supposed silent majority. It is quite the echo chamber.
There are always a handful of people with very strong, very loud opinions wherever you go. The hate towards athletics is misplaced. It should be with the state government for not being prepared for the downturn in the mineral economy.

I recall times not too long ago where there was "too much" money, and the university still made cuts, so it wouldn't be out of line with its peer institutions. Where did all that extra saved up money go?
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spindoctor02 wrote:
kansasCowboy wrote:
spindoctor02 wrote:I'll start this with a simple statement that I'm one of the 'blowhards' you guys are complaining about (not at UW, but at a university of similar enrollment). I am not intimately familiar with the current situation at UW, since I left, but from an academic side of things, the top research faculty are either leaving or not coming in the first place, because of the lower salaries and funding support by the university. If they can do the research at a different school with better support, they'll leave. It's that simple. You wouldn't do your current job, if you could do it somewhere else for more money and support.
Wrong! I work Dept of Corrections in Kansas. And I would prefer to work in Kansas with a DOC that is safer and has better facilities, even though overcrowded at a pay rate that ranks 37 out of 50 states. Rather than working in the overcrowded and dangerous facilities in, let's say California where a typical CO will more than double my pay starting out. And I'm sure Cali DOC has great support from its state. But most will never make a career of it do to the harshness and hazards of the field. Whereas, a good majority of Officers in Kansas will have long standing careers.
I'm sure the rates wyoming gives faculty is comprable to most. And I'm sure they are nowhere near the worst. But if they feel they deserve more, I guess it's time to make that move to Cali, just hope it's really what they wanted...

And we can talk of layoffs as well. In fact my facility was just given it's notice in June that it would be shut down. That requires a move of my part, but a continued career within the state of Kansas. It happens to us all. I'm not crying that my facility was closed down and another got more money. Just like how a professor who goes to the majority of schools will make 50-100k a year and those pesky football coaches at the same majority of schools will still make close to a million more than them... Or more! Just the nature of the beast.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you either have family ties or grew up in Kansas. For academic faculty, it is very rare to find a position in our field in our "home" state, or even in a region where we have family. There just isn't that many jobs to go around, so you go where the availability is. You also likely end up moving fairly frequently (depending on your position). It's much harder to set down roots when you are on a year-to-year contract or fully supported by "soft-money" (i.e. private grants) for your salary, and that money can dry up at any point, without much you can do about it.

Sure, you could have left Kansas for slightly more money, but that doesn't factor in moving costs, and costs to displace your family. When you factor those in, the differences in salary aren't significant, so why move? For an academic, it can be the difference between a paycheck and not, so it's a bit more of a concern. I'd love to get back to Wyoming and work in the state near family, but at present, there is exactly one position at the university for what I do, and it's currently filled.

Just in the last 10 years, since I left Wyoming, I've lived in 5 different places and been in three different departments at 2 different schools. And I've been pretty lucky to be that stable.
Your limb just broke. I was born and raised in Rock Springs. My wife and I moved to Kansas. That being said. Try living in a state that can't even make their budget year to year. Nothing is set in stone when it comes to working for the state. I've seen departments downsize because the state just can't afford it. Let me be clear. This is not my wage:
But to go from Kansas starting DOC wage of 13.95 hr to Cali's 34.50 hr, is pretty significant and I'm sure equals out to about the same as college faculty.
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There's a reason why Rice and Tulane are *seemingly* still on the Big 12's list of possible additions and Boise State is not.

I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Rice or Tulane get in, but every time you see a list with their name on it, their prestige/rep increase that much more.

As far as I can tell, Wyoming never even considered it, simply because it never thought it had a shot.

I don't have a problem with them not applying - it's time and effort best spent elsewhere.

What bugs me is that when evaluating ourselves as an institution, they higher-ups believed there was no point, because as an institution Wyoming didn't measure up.

Positions are being cut, but we're still building a brand-new athletic facility - which is being sold as benefitting all of athletics, and in theory would bring in high-level athletes to train in Laramie, but it looks to me more like a huge renovation of the RAC.

As for academics ...

I don't understand why people didn't see this coming???? Everyone knows Wyoming's economy ebbs and flows, so where was the university's financial plan to account for these kinds of situations? Save in the good times, live comfortably in the poor times.

Now, this is coming from someone on the outside looking in, so if you have deeper insight, please ... enlighten me.
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elfletcho wrote:This was an email fired out to both the faculty and staff list serve today. The story she is referring to was on page 3 of the boomerang, but isn't on their website. It detailed Tom Burman's meeting with the financial crisis committee. This is what we face every day on this campus. While this person isn't faculty, trust me this represents a fair portion of what you would call the "Studies" faculty. This is the mood on campus among a lot of faculty and some staff. I've considered passing on more of these diatribes from faculty, but always stopped short of posting.

UWstaff-l: Today's article in the Boomerang

I literally cried this morning after reading an article in the Laramie Boomerang. And I felt extremely nauseous. One-million dollars. A one-million dollar salary for the football coach. That salary is worth 28 staff with low/moderate pay ($35,000) or 40 staff at low pay ($25,000) or 83 part-time staff ($12,000). That salary is 20 faculty at $50,000 or 10 faculty at $100,000. One-million dollars. There are nationally and internationally renowned faculty and researchers at UW who may possibly have an income slightly over $100,000. One-million dollars. This university has been gutted over the last two months. Truly put this into perspective. Nineteen-million dollars in two months. In 45 working days, that is a cut of $422,000 per day.

There are staff who are being picked up out of their positions and moved like chess pieces, and are not being given any options or ability to have input on their job future. I suppose they do have an option of quitting, but that is really not a realistic option for most people. There are staff who have had their workload doubled, if not tripled, and are not being offered any more pay for the additional work. We are told, “You should just be happy that you have a job.” One-million dollars. I work 40+ hours every week plus interact with students from across the U.S and world, helping them in their academic goals. I go home stressed and frustrated. I do my job well for less than $40,000.

IN THE PAST, I felt UW produced very well rounded and socially productive students. That personal perspective has changed in the last 3-4 years. One-million dollars. I feel UW is on the path to becoming a glorified community college. The standing as a research university will soon disappear and the skeleton academic offerings will not be appealing to students. UW will be a great starter school, but not a place to have a polished education. UW has NOT been a magnet for top athletes since 1969. Why would it be? Many young people come from neighborhoods that are twice the population of the whole state. For many, that is not attractive. Athletics is an important component of college life, but it is not worth sacrificing quality education. UW athletics can be extremely successful within a reasonable scale. I have faith that the Wyoming community would still highly support UW athletics even at a lower division. All the EXCUSES coming from athletics for staying Division 1 are just that….excuses. All of UW is figuring out how to reduce, cut, and still be viable. I believe there would be a great outpouring of support from the UW community if athletics showed understanding, respect, and support for the academics in this ACADEMIC INSTITUTION. One-million dollars. Twenty-five years….that is the amount of time I would need to work at UW to make the one-year salary of the football coach.
Man, facts are a problem for this person. Maybe you can send this out on the same server the person used.
University money to Bohl:
Annual base salary $300,000
$50,000 annually for 15 appearances for the University
That is his annual guarantee from the University funds: $350,000

He can make incentives paid by the Univeristy of:
$20,000 each MWC win, maximum of eight
$25,000 Bowl Game or MWC title (not both)
Academic success:
Team combined GPA > 2.8 $50,000
Team combined GPA 2.7-2.79 $40,000
Team combined GPA 2.5-2.69 $25,000
Team combined GPA below 2.5 Nothing
Season Ticket Sales
to 4,999 Nothing
5,000-5,999 $20,000
6,000-6,999 $30,000
7,000-7,999-$40,000
8,000-8,999-$50,000
9,000-9,999-$60,000
10,000 and up -$70,000


Incentives paid from non-University Funds
$550,000 10 media/public relations appearances
12 marketing appearances
1 foundation appearance
12 radio shows

Athletics account for roughly 4 percent of the University budget.
BTW, the person who sent the email failed to note that when the Athletic Department goes over board on a construction project, like the AA, it has to stop and revise the plans to fit within the money (which is non-university funding) allotted.
When the Fine Arts building came up $9 million short in matching funds what happened? The shortfall was made up out of the university general funds.
WYCowboy
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TracyRingolsby wrote:
elfletcho wrote:This was an email fired out to both the faculty and staff list serve today. The story she is referring to was on page 3 of the boomerang, but isn't on their website. It detailed Tom Burman's meeting with the financial crisis committee. This is what we face every day on this campus. While this person isn't faculty, trust me this represents a fair portion of what you would call the "Studies" faculty. This is the mood on campus among a lot of faculty and some staff. I've considered passing on more of these diatribes from faculty, but always stopped short of posting.

UWstaff-l: Today's article in the Boomerang

I literally cried this morning after reading an article in the Laramie Boomerang. And I felt extremely nauseous. One-million dollars. A one-million dollar salary for the football coach. That salary is worth 28 staff with low/moderate pay ($35,000) or 40 staff at low pay ($25,000) or 83 part-time staff ($12,000). That salary is 20 faculty at $50,000 or 10 faculty at $100,000. One-million dollars. There are nationally and internationally renowned faculty and researchers at UW who may possibly have an income slightly over $100,000. One-million dollars. This university has been gutted over the last two months. Truly put this into perspective. Nineteen-million dollars in two months. In 45 working days, that is a cut of $422,000 per day.

There are staff who are being picked up out of their positions and moved like chess pieces, and are not being given any options or ability to have input on their job future. I suppose they do have an option of quitting, but that is really not a realistic option for most people. There are staff who have had their workload doubled, if not tripled, and are not being offered any more pay for the additional work. We are told, “You should just be happy that you have a job.” One-million dollars. I work 40+ hours every week plus interact with students from across the U.S and world, helping them in their academic goals. I go home stressed and frustrated. I do my job well for less than $40,000.

IN THE PAST, I felt UW produced very well rounded and socially productive students. That personal perspective has changed in the last 3-4 years. One-million dollars. I feel UW is on the path to becoming a glorified community college. The standing as a research university will soon disappear and the skeleton academic offerings will not be appealing to students. UW will be a great starter school, but not a place to have a polished education. UW has NOT been a magnet for top athletes since 1969. Why would it be? Many young people come from neighborhoods that are twice the population of the whole state. For many, that is not attractive. Athletics is an important component of college life, but it is not worth sacrificing quality education. UW athletics can be extremely successful within a reasonable scale. I have faith that the Wyoming community would still highly support UW athletics even at a lower division. All the EXCUSES coming from athletics for staying Division 1 are just that….excuses. All of UW is figuring out how to reduce, cut, and still be viable. I believe there would be a great outpouring of support from the UW community if athletics showed understanding, respect, and support for the academics in this ACADEMIC INSTITUTION. One-million dollars. Twenty-five years….that is the amount of time I would need to work at UW to make the one-year salary of the football coach.
Man, facts are a problem for this person. Maybe you can send this out on the same server the person used.
University money to Bohl:
Annual base salary $300,000
$50,000 annually for 15 appearances for the University
That is his annual guarantee from the University funds: $350,000

He can make incentives paid by the Univeristy of:
$20,000 each MWC win, maximum of eight
$25,000 Bowl Game or MWC title (not both)
Academic success:
Team combined GPA > 2.8 $50,000
Team combined GPA 2.7-2.79 $40,000
Team combined GPA 2.5-2.69 $25,000
Team combined GPA below 2.5 Nothing
Season Ticket Sales
to 4,999 Nothing
5,000-5,999 $20,000
6,000-6,999 $30,000
7,000-7,999-$40,000
8,000-8,999-$50,000
9,000-9,999-$60,000
10,000 and up -$70,000


Incentives paid from non-University Funds
$550,000 10 media/public relations appearances
12 marketing appearances
1 foundation appearance
12 radio shows

Athletics account for roughly 4 percent of the University budget.
BTW, the person who sent the email failed to note that when the Athletic Department goes over board on a construction project, like the AA, it has to stop and revise the plans to fit within the money (which is non-university funding) allotted.
When the Fine Arts building came up $9 million short in matching funds what happened? The shortfall was made up out of the university general funds.

Thanks for clarifying Tracy.
You can tell how big a person is by what it takes to discourage him/her.
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