Vigen-Bohl relationship question

[307bball]

Just a question...I keep seeing posts proclaiming Vigen and Bohl are "joined at the hip". Is there some sort of arrangement beyond two guys who have built up some trust over the years? Why wouldn't Bohl move on from him?

[SDPokeFan]

All I can figure is Vigen has some compromising photos of him. I did get a good laugh watching Bohl's press conference today when he said they have a "very complicated offense." From what I can tell they have about five plays.

[yopaulie]

Vigen was at NDSU when Bohl started head coaching there, and so has been part of Bohl's staff for 15 years, since 2003.

[Adv8RU12]

...they have a "very complicated offense." From what I can tell they have about five plays.

To Vigen five plays is complicated.

[kansasCowboy]

...they have a "very complicated offense." From what I can tell they have about five plays.

To Vigen five plays is complicated.

This is what I’ve noticed and about the only way I can explain it from another OC perspective.
Take a Dive play up the middle. Each specific Dive is individualized due to a different blocking scheme on each individual play. So fans just see “run up the middle” each time. What they don’t notice is the different blocking assignments each time. So you may see five runs up the middle, but each one is different due to the blocking scheme.

Just something I’ve noticed while watching some games. And I assume it’s like this with most all our offense.

[ragtimejoe1]

...they have a "very complicated offense." From what I can tell they have about five plays.

To Vigen five plays is complicated.

This is what I’ve noticed and about the only way I can explain it from another OC perspective.
Take a Dive play up the middle. Each specific Dive is individualized due to a different blocking scheme on each individual play. So fans just see “run up the middle” each time. What they don’t notice is the different blocking assignments each time. So you may see five runs up the middle, but each one is different due to the blocking scheme.

Just something I’ve noticed while watching some games. And I assume it’s like this with most all our offense.

I think you are right and summed up Vigen's problem. He focuses his complexity on blocking schemes that don't work rather than creating mismatches on skill players and utilizing complex motions and misdirections to mentally challenge defenses.

[Brown and Gold]

Not that I like Vigen but it comes down to trust. The offense would work with better players but we are limited.....I see a lot of praise for Chambers for the game vs USU but none for Vigen calling plays for Chambers. I guess when a play works it was the player and when it doesn't....it's Vigen.....

[ragtimejoe1]

Not that I like Vigen but it comes down to trust. The offense would work with better players but we are limited.....I see a lot of praise for Chambers for the game vs USU but none for Vigen calling plays for Chambers. I guess when a play works it was the player and when it doesn't....it's Vigen.....

Personally, I'm basing on having a sub 100 offense in 4 of 5 years against a very weak SOS. That and in year 5 we lack depth, experience, and identity. Just me...

[poke_addict]

...they have a "very complicated offense." From what I can tell they have about five plays.

To Vigen five plays is complicated.

This is what I’ve noticed and about the only way I can explain it from another OC perspective.
Take a Dive play up the middle. Each specific Dive is individualized due to a different blocking scheme on each individual play. So fans just see “run up the middle” each time. What they don’t notice is the different blocking assignments each time. So you may see five runs up the middle, but each one is different due to the blocking scheme.

Just something I’ve noticed while watching some games. And I assume it’s like this with most all our offense.

Bingo like I said in an other thread it's rare when identical plays are called in the same game. The offense is extremely difficult to grasp. Each play is completely different on numerous factors. It's the QBs job to identify those things on the field. Our starting Qb has 300 plays he has to know inside out. He needs to know what to do for each one of these plays with multiple possible defensive schemes.

[ragtimejoe1]

Bingo like I said in an other thread it's rare when identical plays are called in the same game. The offense is extremely difficult to grasp. Each play is completely different on numerous factors. It's the QBs job to identify those things on the field. Our starting Qb has 300 plays he has to know inside out. He needs to know what to do for each one of these plays with multiple possible defensive schemes.

Looks like more responsibility on the linemen. The qb is calling the play but handing off to the same hole often. The offense is not working and there is no amount of excuses for bad to terrible offenses 4 out of 5 years against crap defenses.

If the complexity theory is true, that is equally as damning on Vigen and sets linemen and QBs up to fail. I have a few games recorded, so I'll have to go back and watch blocking scheme. Without a doubt, the ball attempts the same hole in a dive often.

It has been half a decade with a dysfunctional offense. You gotta adjust something.

[Cornpoke]

Bingo like I said in an other thread it's rare when identical plays are called in the same game. The offense is extremely difficult to grasp. Each play is completely different on numerous factors. It's the QBs job to identify those things on the field. Our starting Qb has 300 plays he has to know inside out. He needs to know what to do for each one of these plays with multiple possible defensive schemes.

Looks like more responsibility on the linemen. The qb is calling the play but handing off to the same hole often. The offense is not working and there is no amount of excuses for bad to terrible offenses 4 out of 5 years against crap defenses.

If the complexity theory is true, that is equally as damning on Vigen and sets linemen and QBs up to fail. I have a few games recorded, so I'll have to go back and watch blocking scheme. Without a doubt, the ball attempts the same hole in a dive often.

It has been half a decade with a dysfunctional offense. You gotta adjust something.

One of the biggest complaints is the O-line play. Why complicate the offense with such complex blocking schemes that the O-line can't seem to grasp. I'm of the belief you learn to execute one play before moving onto the next. Vigen throws 300 plays at these guys rather then focusing on execution and actual in game strategy.

[poke_addict]

Bingo like I said in an other thread it's rare when identical plays are called in the same game. The offense is extremely difficult to grasp. Each play is completely different on numerous factors. It's the QBs job to identify those things on the field. Our starting Qb has 300 plays he has to know inside out. He needs to know what to do for each one of these plays with multiple possible defensive schemes.

Looks like more responsibility on the linemen. The qb is calling the play but handing off to the same hole often. The offense is not working and there is no amount of excuses for bad to terrible offenses 4 out of 5 years against crap defenses.

If the complexity theory is true, that is equally as damning on Vigen and sets linemen and QBs up to fail. I have a few games recorded, so I'll have to go back and watch blocking scheme. Without a doubt, the ball attempts the same hole in a dive often.

It has been half a decade with a dysfunctional offense. You gotta adjust something.

You're definitely correct that alot of the responsibility is on the line. The Center has his fair share of reads to make on each play as well. Its imperative that the line knows what they are doing one missed assignment and the play ends in a pile at the line of scrimmage. Exacute that play Nico walks into the endzone untouched! ( Not always lol)

The Center makes reads about the defense for the play called in the huddle. Any pre snap changes is on the QB. It may look like the QB is only handing the ball off but he needs to identify where that defense is heading before the snap. If you have the right tools to run the offense it can be very frustrating to defend. Young QBs and Young Centers are anything but ideal for this offense.

We really don't know what's going on is those meeting rooms. Vigen is the guy calling plays but overall its Craig Bohls offense that we are running. I'm hoping the staff is installing some RPO for chambers to run the rest of the season. We went a little off script with Chambers in the game and it damn sure better have made Bohl and staff to do some soul searching. I'm convinced we beat the Aggies had Chambers started that game. The staff obviously didn't prepare Chambers to play more than a couple series. That definitely needs to change.

[specialteamsguru]

The Almighty may examine their relationship come Judgement Day, but for now the AD needs to put them on notice that adjustments need to be made, and "accountability" applies to the adults in the program, not just the undergraduate students.

[1tallpoke]

Chambers will expose this relationship. He will start and win. He’s a leader and players will rally behind him. He has an arm and “when allowed “ will use it. It was easy to see that coaches had no “plan B”when Chambers overachieved on the two plays he was given. Then we go back to the guy that looks exactly like he did in the spring game for the two-minute drive. A step better than Nick. I can’t wait to hear the story they peddle when Chambers has a good game. Player development or Player discovery is the question. B&V will ride this one out together. Forever

[Wyovanian]

The Almighty may examine their relationship come Judgement Day, but for now the AD needs to put them on notice that adjustments need to be made, and "accountability" applies to the adults in the program, not just the undergraduate students.

Hallelujah and amen to that, brother.

[WyoBrandX]

Bingo like I said in an other thread it's rare when identical plays are called in the same game. The offense is extremely difficult to grasp. Each play is completely different on numerous factors. It's the QBs job to identify those things on the field. Our starting Qb has 300 plays he has to know inside out. He needs to know what to do for each one of these plays with multiple possible defensive schemes.

Looks like more responsibility on the linemen. The qb is calling the play but handing off to the same hole often. The offense is not working and there is no amount of excuses for bad to terrible offenses 4 out of 5 years against crap defenses.

If the complexity theory is true, that is equally as damning on Vigen and sets linemen and QBs up to fail. I have a few games recorded, so I'll have to go back and watch blocking scheme. Without a doubt, the ball attempts the same hole in a dive often.

It has been half a decade with a dysfunctional offense. You gotta adjust something.

You're definitely correct that alot of the responsibility is on the line. The Center has his fair share of reads to make on each play as well. Its imperative that the line knows what they are doing one missed assignment and the play ends in a pile at the line of scrimmage. Exacute that play Nico walks into the endzone untouched! ( Not always lol)

[The Center makes reads about the defense for the play called in the huddle. Any pre snap changes is on the QB. It may look like the QB is only handing the ball off but he needs to dentify where that defense is heading before the snap. If you have the right tools to run the offense it can be very frustrating to defend. Young QBs and Young Centers are anything but ideal for this offense.

We really don't know what's going on is those meeting rooms. Vigen is the guy calling plays but overall its Craig Bohls offense that we are running. I'm hoping the staff is installing some RPO for chambers to run the rest of the season. We went a little off script with Chambers in the game and it damn sure better have made Bohl and staff to do some soul searching. I'm convinced we beat the Aggies had Chambers started that game. The staff obviously didn't prepare Chambers to play more than a couple series. That definitely needs to change.

That's one of the reasons our defense is so nasty. They line up in a formation that doesn't necessarily represent what they are doing. Eg switching from cover 2 man to cover 3 zone. Really screws with the other teams offense something fierce. Hazelton is a genius at mentally screwing with the other team.

Example: defense lines up in a blitz, safeties are coming. Offense see's this and starts licking their chops. The RB runs an angle across the middle. The WR's go into an out route. Last second, wyo defense moves and is playing cover 2 zone. Pass nearly intercepted. QB is taking a mental licking....

[stymeman]

Hopefully the D runs roughshod on the Sheeep and gives em hell all night, and our new Savior Chambers gives us hope, we take the boot back home and gives us a good feeling for quite sometime. Go Pokes get er done

[flyfishwyo]

...they have a "very complicated offense." From what I can tell they have about five plays.

To Vigen five plays is complicated.

This is what I’ve noticed and about the only way I can explain it from another OC perspective.
Take a Dive play up the middle. Each specific Dive is individualized due to a different blocking scheme on each individual play. So fans just see “run up the middle” each time. What they don’t notice is the different blocking assignments each time. So you may see five runs up the middle, but each one is different due to the blocking scheme.

Just something I’ve noticed while watching some games. And I assume it’s like this with most all our offense.

Bingo like I said in an other thread it's rare when identical plays are called in the same game. The offense is extremely difficult to grasp. Each play is completely different on numerous factors. It's the QBs job to identify those things on the field. Our starting Qb has 300 plays he has to know inside out. He needs to know what to do for each one of these plays with multiple possible defensive schemes.

Great article that talks about how Harbaugh addressed some of the same issues we're having:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/coll ... 744998002/

[Poke-proud]

Not that I like Vigen but it comes down to trust. The offense would work with better players but we are limited.....I see a lot of praise for Chambers for the game vs USU but none for Vigen calling plays for Chambers. I guess when a play works it was the player and when it doesn't....it's Vigen.....

Personally, I'm basing on having a sub 100 offense in 4 of 5 years against a very weak SOS. That and in year 5 we lack depth, experience, and identity. Just me...

Agreed, and with a QB now in the NFL.

[WyomingAg]

Great article that talks about how Harbaugh addressed some of the same issues we're having:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/coll ... 744998002/

Wait a sec, Michigan adjusted their offense to a hybrid offense to maximize the use of their players and are sitting with a great record and playoff contention.

I didn't think that was allowed. My understanding from Bohl and Vigen was you can only run the one style of offense no matter what, even if you don't have the right players. Just keep forcing the square peg in a round hole. Who would have thought that coaches can have success by identifying advantages of players and morphing their strategy to something that suits the players and the coaches philosophy more equally.