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Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:44 am
by Poke in New England
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:29 am
Poke in New England wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:23 am
Revisionist history. Allen was top 5 in many 2017 mock drafts before announcing he was coming back. The day of the 2017 draft is when Adam Schefter reported that a scout believed Allen would be the #1 pick in 2018. His stock was sky high at that time. Put it this way - he had a down year (with a shoulder injury) in 2018 and a team still traded up to pick him in the top ten.
Yes, we all love to believe in a good fairytale.
Let the record reflect that Josh Allen returned to Wyoming in 2017 despite being a sure fire top 5 NFL pick and despite losing all of his offensive weapons (including Roullier, Hill, Gentry, etc..).
I mean, he literally went to bed as a declared NFL prospect and changed his mind in the morning. I thought this stuff would be common knowledge for Wyoming fans. Read the quotes in this story.:
https://apnews.com/article/sports-colle ... 1261cc3f89
Surefire top 5? Maybe not. But there is no way he was making it out of the top 1/2 of the first round in that draft. Again, he went #7 after a year throwing 16 touchdowns and hurting his shoulder. My point stands - he turned down tens of millions of dollars to come back to Laramie.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:49 am
by OrediggerPoke
Poke in New England wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:44 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:29 am
Yes, we all love to believe in a good fairytale.
Let the record reflect that Josh Allen returned to Wyoming in 2017 despite being a sure fire top 5 NFL pick and despite losing all of his offensive weapons (including Roullier, Hill, Gentry, etc..).
I mean, he literally went to bed as a declared NFL prospect and changed his mind in the morning. I thought this stuff would be common knowledge for Wyoming fans. Read the quotes in this story.:
https://apnews.com/article/sports-colle ... 1261cc3f89
Surefire top 5? Maybe not. But there is no way he was making it out of the top 1/2 of the first round in that draft. Again, he went #7 after a year throwing 16 touchdowns and hurting his shoulder. My point stands - he turned down tens of millions of dollars to come back to Laramie.
Your point doesn’t stand the tiniest amount of scrutiny, that’s the problem.
Under your theory - Why didn’t Josh Allen return to Wyoming in 2018? After all and under your theory he didn’t improve his draft stock and he apparently returned to Wyoming in 2017 purely for his devotion to the staff and team.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:30 am
by ragtimejoe1
Poke in New England wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:44 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:29 am
Yes, we all love to believe in a good fairytale.
Let the record reflect that Josh Allen returned to Wyoming in 2017 despite being a sure fire top 5 NFL pick and despite losing all of his offensive weapons (including Roullier, Hill, Gentry, etc..).
I mean, he literally went to bed as a declared NFL prospect and changed his mind in the morning. I thought this stuff would be common knowledge for Wyoming fans. Read the quotes in this story.:
https://apnews.com/article/sports-colle ... 1261cc3f89
Surefire top 5? Maybe not. But there is no way he was making it out of the top 1/2 of the first round in that draft. Again, he went #7 after a year throwing 16 touchdowns and hurting his shoulder. My point stands - he turned down tens of millions of dollars to come back to Laramie.
Allen wasn't going above Watson, Mahomes, or Trubiski
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:56 am
by OrediggerPoke
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:30 am
Poke in New England wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:44 am
I mean, he literally went to bed as a declared NFL prospect and changed his mind in the morning. I thought this stuff would be common knowledge for Wyoming fans. Read the quotes in this story.:
https://apnews.com/article/sports-colle ... 1261cc3f89
Surefire top 5? Maybe not. But there is no way he was making it out of the top 1/2 of the first round in that draft. Again, he went #7 after a year throwing 16 touchdowns and hurting his shoulder. My point stands - he turned down tens of millions of dollars to come back to Laramie.
Allen wasn't going above Watson, Mahomes, or Trubiski
Absolutely correct. As you point out, Mahomes went 10th and Watson went 12th. The next QB taken was DeShone Kizer at the end of the second round.
But somehow according to Poke in New England, Allen didn’t improve his draft stock by staying another year after his first full Division 1 season and being drafted 7th.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 am
by LanderPoke
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:49 am
Poke in New England wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:44 am
I mean, he literally went to bed as a declared NFL prospect and changed his mind in the morning. I thought this stuff would be common knowledge for Wyoming fans. Read the quotes in this story.:
https://apnews.com/article/sports-colle ... 1261cc3f89
Surefire top 5? Maybe not. But there is no way he was making it out of the top 1/2 of the first round in that draft. Again, he went #7 after a year throwing 16 touchdowns and hurting his shoulder. My point stands - he turned down tens of millions of dollars to come back to Laramie.
Your point doesn’t stand the tiniest amount of scrutiny, that’s the problem.
Under your theory - Why didn’t Josh Allen return to Wyoming in 2018? After all and under your theory he didn’t improve his draft stock and he apparently returned to Wyoming in 2017 purely for his devotion to the staff and team.
Josh would have been invited to the Combine and had a pro day and done many interviews. He certainly would have improved his stock in the pre-Draft process. He may well ahve passed those that got drafted ahead of him. Again, this is all your opinion. You don't have a crystal ball.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:45 am
by OrediggerPoke
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:49 am
Your point doesn’t stand the tiniest amount of scrutiny, that’s the problem.
Under your theory - Why didn’t Josh Allen return to Wyoming in 2018? After all and under your theory he didn’t improve his draft stock and he apparently returned to Wyoming in 2017 purely for his devotion to the staff and team.
Josh would have been invited to the Combine and had a pro day and done many interviews. He certainly would have improved his stock in the pre-Draft process. He may well ahve passed those that got drafted ahead of him. Again, this is all your opinion. You don't have a crystal ball.
Which is the point. Odds were that Allen wasn’t going to be selected ahead of those guys so he decided not to hire an agent and go through the process and return for another season to mitigate his draft risk (taking on the risk of college injury). It was a financial decision and a weighing of risk. It wasn’t a decision purely out of devotion to the Wyoming staff and team. Hell he might have even bought an injury insurance policy to further mitigate the risk of a return (I don’t remember if he did or didn’t).
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:50 pm
by doreno5
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:45 am
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 am
Josh would have been invited to the Combine and had a pro day and done many interviews. He certainly would have improved his stock in the pre-Draft process. He may well ahve passed those that got drafted ahead of him. Again, this is all your opinion. You don't have a crystal ball.
Which is the point. Odds were that Allen wasn’t going to be selected ahead of those guys so he decided not to hire an agent and go through the process and return for another season to mitigate his draft risk (taking on the risk of college injury). It was a financial decision and a weighing of risk. It wasn’t a decision purely out of devotion to the Wyoming staff and team. Hell he might have even bought an injury insurance policy to further mitigate the risk of a return (I don’t remember if he did or didn’t).
Given that he watched the national Championship game with 3 agents I sure as heck hope they advised him to take out an injury insurance policy. As it was had his injury in 2017 been more serious he may have waited another year.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:35 pm
by 307bball
The money being thrown at QB's in college is absurd. In todays environment, would Josh have stayed? Would he have taken the $$? Anybody that says they know is lying. We are all just speculating.
For me...I think he would have taken the $$ and killed it somewhere else and gone on to a great NFL career. That opinion of what would have happened does not diminish him as a Cowboy one bit....particularly because it's an absurd hypothetical. I feel that way about any of the the big time college athletes. Once you start getting paid...you are a gun for hire. The one exception to this would possibly have been Logan Wilson.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:00 pm
by OrediggerPoke
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:35 pm
The money being thrown at QB's in college is absurd. In todays environment, would Josh have stayed? Would he have taken the $$? Anybody that says they know is lying. We are all just speculating.
For me...I think he would have taken the $$ and killed it somewhere else and gone on to a great NFL career. That opinion of what would have happened does not diminish him as a Cowboy one bit....particularly because
it's an absurd hypothetical. I feel that way about any of the the big time college athletes. Once you start getting paid...you are a gun for hire. The one exception to this would possibly have been Logan Wilson.
I agree with this. I’m also in the camp that Allen probably would have transferred. I also agree that Logan Wilson probably stays.
Linebackers don’t seem to be collecting NIL deals in the ballpark of QBs. If 2017 were today, Josh Allen probably commands at least $2 million annually conservatively. (Sanders is said to command $5 million, Arch Manning $3 million as a backup, Caleb Williams $2.7 million).
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:40 pm
by LanderPoke
Josh literally said he stayed out of loyalty to Bohl and UW. He turned down millions to stay at UW. Don’t diminish Josh’s loyalty and integrity
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 pm
by 307bball
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:40 pm
Josh literally said he stayed out of loyalty to Bohl and UW. He turned down millions to stay at UW. Don’t diminish Josh’s loyalty and integrity
Loyalty and integrity are not at issue here. It turns out that NCAA rules about compensating athletes and limiting transfers were the salient variable all along. Call it loyalty and integrity all you want.... Won't change the fact that players, up until recently, had very few options.
By all accounts, Josh is a great guy and acknowledging that he may have made different decisions if he had been subject to different circumstances doesn't change any of that.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:16 am
by McPeachy
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 pm
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:40 pm
Josh literally said he stayed out of loyalty to Bohl and UW. He turned down millions to stay at UW. Don’t diminish Josh’s loyalty and integrity
Loyalty and integrity are not at issue here. It turns out that NCAA rules about compensating athletes and limiting transfers were the salient variable all along. Call it loyalty and integrity all you want.... Won't change the fact that players, up until recently, had very few options.
By all accounts, Josh is a great guy and acknowledging that he may have made different decisions if he had been subject to different circumstances doesn't change any of that.
Brandon Ewing, Mr. WYO basketball - recently came out on social and made the statement that if NIL existed when he played at UW, he would be a goner. Says a lot.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:50 am
by 307bball
McPeachy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:16 am
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 pm
Loyalty and integrity are not at issue here. It turns out that NCAA rules about compensating athletes and limiting transfers were the salient variable all along. Call it loyalty and integrity all you want.... Won't change the fact that players, up until recently, had very few options.
By all accounts, Josh is a great guy and acknowledging that he may have made different decisions if he had been subject to different circumstances doesn't change any of that.
Brandon Ewing, Mr. WYO basketball - recently came out on social and made the statement that if NIL existed when he played at UW, he would be a goner. Says a lot.
I think, for some, that makes him "not a cowboy" or something. The fact that people will make different decisions if presented with different opportunities seems to undermine some folks world view. JA and Brandon Ewing were great pokes athletes. They had the opportunities they had and made the best of it. I had a great time watching both of them do what they did while they wore the brown and gold. The hypothetical "what-ifs" are sort of interesting but they have not bearing on my memories of what actually happened and how I enjoyed it.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:20 am
by LanderPoke
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 pm
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:40 pm
Josh literally said he stayed out of loyalty to Bohl and UW. He turned down millions to stay at UW. Don’t diminish Josh’s loyalty and integrity
Loyalty and integrity are not at issue here. It turns out that NCAA rules about compensating athletes and limiting transfers were the salient variable all along. Call it loyalty and integrity all you want.... Won't change the fact that players, up until recently, had very few options.
By all accounts, Josh is a great guy and acknowledging that he may have made different decisions if he had been subject to different circumstances doesn't change any of that.
No, you don’t get it. Josh literally said he stayed out of loyalty to Bohl and UW. The coach and school that gave him a chance - and turned down millions in the process .This is not difficult to comprehend
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:38 am
by 307bball
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:20 am
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 pm
Loyalty and integrity are not at issue here. It turns out that NCAA rules about compensating athletes and limiting transfers were the salient variable all along. Call it loyalty and integrity all you want.... Won't change the fact that players, up until recently, had very few options.
By all accounts, Josh is a great guy and acknowledging that he may have made different decisions if he had been subject to different circumstances doesn't change any of that.
No, you don’t get it. Josh literally said he stayed out of loyalty to Bohl and UW. The coach and school that gave him a chance - and turned down millions in the process .This is not difficult to comprehend
I'm not saying Josh didn't say what he said...I'm not even saying that you are wrong for having the opinion about this hypothetical that you have. You feel like Josh has some sort of value of "loyalty" and "integrity" that you think maps on to this hypothetical question. This informs your opinion on what may have happened if circumstances had been different. You are entitled to your opinion. You might be right. I have no problem with that. If you are right it doesn't change my view of JA one bit. I do find it interesting to observe the certainty that people feel around this topic.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:40 am
by OrediggerPoke
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:20 am
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:38 pm
Loyalty and integrity are not at issue here. It turns out that NCAA rules about compensating athletes and limiting transfers were the salient variable all along. Call it loyalty and integrity all you want.... Won't change the fact that players, up until recently, had very few options.
By all accounts, Josh is a great guy and acknowledging that he may have made different decisions if he had been subject to different circumstances doesn't change any of that.
No, you don’t get it. Josh literally said he stayed out of loyalty to Bohl and UW. The coach and school that gave him a chance - and turned down millions in the process .This is not difficult to comprehend
But why did his indisputable and absolute loyalty to Wyoming end in 2017? Would he not have helped the team by coming back for his redshirt senior year in 2018?
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:46 am
by LanderPoke
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:40 am
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:20 am
No, you don’t get it. Josh literally said he stayed out of loyalty to Bohl and UW. The coach and school that gave him a chance - and turned down millions in the process .This is not difficult to comprehend
But why did his indisputable and absolute loyalty to Wyoming end in 2017? Would he not have helped the team by coming back for his redshirt senior year in 2018?
He felt he owed one more year and not two. I don't know. I never said Josh had "absolute" loyalty, but Josh does (obviously) have a very high level of loyalty. Still doesn't change the fact Josh came back because of Bohl and UW - and turned down millions in the process.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:49 am
by 307bball
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:46 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:40 am
But why did his indisputable and absolute loyalty to Wyoming end in 2017? Would he not have helped the team by coming back for his redshirt senior year in 2018?
He felt he owed one more year and not two. I don't know. I never said Josh had "absolute" loyalty, but Josh does (obviously) have a very high level of loyalty.
....in an environment without the incentives and rule structure governing transfers that exist today. As Chris Rock once said "
A man is only as faithful as his options."
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:51 am
by OrediggerPoke
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:46 am
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:40 am
But why did his indisputable and absolute loyalty to Wyoming end in 2017? Would he not have helped the team by coming back for his redshirt senior year in 2018?
He felt he owed one more year and not two. I don't know. I never said Josh had "absolute" loyalty, but Josh does (obviously) have a very high level of loyalty. Still doesn't change the fact Josh came back because of Bohl and UW - and turned down millions in the process.
Ok so we are moving the goal posts. He made a financial decision his senior year but made a decision merely out of loyalty his junior year.
Look - Josh Allen is my favorite pro athlete. But come on man, let’s be realistic.
Re: Bertagnole is returning!!
Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:58 am
by LanderPoke
OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:51 am
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:46 am
He felt he owed one more year and not two. I don't know. I never said Josh had "absolute" loyalty, but Josh does (obviously) have a very high level of loyalty. Still doesn't change the fact Josh came back because of Bohl and UW - and turned down millions in the process.
Ok so we are moving the goal posts. He made a financial decision his senior year but made a decision merely out of loyalty his junior year.
Look - Josh Allen is my favorite pro athlete. But come on man, let’s be realistic.
smh. Perhaps Josh felt that only one year as a starting QB wasn't enough to the guy that gave him his chance to be a football player. People have a lot of reasons for staying somewhere. Not every decision in life is guided solely by money. Not everyone wantonly chases $$ like a prostitute every chance they get. geez.