CSU Stadium Renderings

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Shy was a great hire and I too predict Bohl is. However, we handicap them and, as frequently pointed out, require them to do more with less.

My concern is that though we have coaches who do more with less, we are losing ground on the budget side of things. That is not a sustainable path of success in college athletics.

This is an honest question, not meant to rag on anyone or call anyone a liar.

Is there breakdown of budgets and where the money goes? How do we know we really lag behind everyone?

Just because the Sheep have a bigger budget ($xx,000,000) than UW ($x,000,000) doesn't necessarily mean it affects their programs in a manner different than ours...I would bet that he cost of running their university and their programs is much higher than ours as well...

I'd have to look around. Budgets are available but breakdown of expenditures are harder to find (if available). Remember, when Burman took charge, our budget was greater than CSU. The 3 largest programs leave, we add a bunch of WAC schools and as still don't increase our budgetary situation relative to our peers. Almost every program in MWC has outpaced us in budgetary increases over the past 8 years. It is a concern.

And who is leaps and bounds ahead of us in athletic prowess? Boise State is the only school that you could say has truly benefited from their increased budget. CSU hasn't had consistent success over us. UNM? FSU? Anyone? Who is consistently whipping us? None but BSU. A huge budget doesn't equate to on field/court success. I like what Shyatt is doing with what he is given. We have no way to 100% say with double the budget he will have double the success...

[ragtimejoe1]

I don't follow your logic. Had CSU not invested in their programs, they would have been stagnant. Over the past 5 or so years, they've had a few really good football seasons and a couple of NCAA appearances. I would say that is evidence of success.

In almost every conference, the consistently good programs are typically in the upper end of the budget. Personally, I'd like to shoot for BSU level success rather than the middle of dilapidated MWC. We can't get there on our current budget trajectory no matter how many "cowboy toughs" we yell.

[J-Rod]

I don't follow your logic. Had CSU not invested in their programs, they would have been stagnant. Over the past 5 or so years, they've had a few really good football seasons and a couple of NCAA appearances. I would say that is evidence of success.

In almost every conference, the consistently good programs are typically in the upper end of the budget. Personally, I'd like to shoot for BSU level success rather than the middle of dilapidated MWC. We can't get there on our current budget trajectory no matter how many "cowboy toughs" we yell.

BSU has 12 double-digit win seasons this millennium, and three major bowl victories. I don't think any G5 team will ever reach that level of success. I'd be thrilled to get the program to where Utah State has been in recent years.

But alas...how about just making a bowl game first?

[Wyo2dal]

I don't follow your logic. Had CSU not invested in their programs, they would have been stagnant. Over the past 5 or so years, they've had a few really good football seasons and a couple of NCAA appearances. I would say that is evidence of success.

In almost every conference, the consistently good programs are typically in the upper end of the budget. Personally, I'd like to shoot for BSU level success rather than the middle of dilapidated MWC. We can't get there on our current budget trajectory no matter how many "cowboy toughs" we yell.

BSU has 12 double-digit win seasons this millennium, and three major bowl victories. I don't think any G5 team will ever reach that level of success. I'd be thrilled to get the program to where Utah State has been in recent years.

But alas...how about just making a bowl game first?

That's my 2015 prediction 6-6 to the Arizona Bowl!

[J-Rod]

That's my 2015 prediction 6-6 to the Arizona Bowl!

That would be a solid season! Baby steps first before we set the bar at juggernaut status.

[ragtimejoe1]

That's my 2015 prediction 6-6 to the Arizona Bowl!

That would be a solid season! Baby steps first before we set the bar at juggernaut status.

Definitely agree. Point is, however, we won't build a sustainable program unless we also address our inability to keep budgetary pace. Ideally we actual do better than most of our peers.

[J-Rod]

Definitely agree. Point is, however, we won't build a sustainable program unless we also address our inability to keep budgetary pace. Ideally we actual do better than most of our peers.

It's definitely a topic that raises questions. Wyoming has a higher budget for football than most MW programs, yet has 3 bowl games since 2000 to show for it. That's horrible considering 6-6 is all that is required to make a bowl nowadays. The ROI is not showing up.

[ragtimejoe1]

Definitely agree. Point is, however, we won't build a sustainable program unless we also address our inability to keep budgetary pace. Ideally we actual do better than most of our peers.

It's definitely a topic that raises questions. Wyoming has a higher budget for football than most MW programs, yet has 3 bowl games since 2000 to show for it. That's horrible considering 6-6 is all that is required to make a bowl nowadays. The ROI is not showing up.

Where do you get your budget numbers showing we spend more on football than most other teams in mwc? Most I've seen show that we are middle to lower half. Not only that we have the slowest paced budget growth or at least near bottom in that category. My Java is wack right now, so I can't check. However, here are the "best" numbers that are available. I'll have to search through MWC schools' football expenses after I fix java.

http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ragtimejoe1]

Only checked some. AF not available. Our football budget more than USU, UNR, and SJSU but less than UNM, CSU, SDSU, BSU, FSU, and UNLV.

We are much closer to the teams below us than above. The 5 year trend indicates teams like USU will pass us soon.

Not sustainable.

[joshvanklomp]

Our population and small University status limits us to MWC at best but I don't buy the notion it limits our success.

I never said it would limit our success, I said it would probably hinder us from ever becoming P5.

[ragtimejoe1]

We are barely above Montana in football spending and we are much closer to ND State than CSU.

We are handicapping our excellent coaches. Perhaps this partly explains why every coach since DD has failed?

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

We are barely above Montana in football spending and we are much closer to ND State than CSU.

We are handicapping our excellent coaches. Perhaps this partly explains why every coach since DD has failed?

In what ways are we handicapping our coaches? What would a huge budget suddenly offer our coaches that they aren't getting now? I'm curious. I guess I don't know what a huge budget does for us in terms of putting a winning product on the field. Can't pay players so it's not going there.... Coaches get paid what they agree to so it cant help here... And what are the bigger budgets doing to help teams like UNM, SJSU, etc. that were not getting?

[ragtimejoe1]

We are barely above Montana in football spending and we are much closer to ND State than CSU.

We are handicapping our excellent coache. Perhaps this partly explains why every coach since DD has failed?

In what ways are we handicapping our coaches? What would a huge budget suddenly offer our coaches that they aren't getting now? I'm curious. I guess I don't know what a huge budget does for us in terms of putting a winning product on the field. Can't pay players so it's not going there.... Coaches get paid what they agree to so it cant help here... And what are the bigger budgets doing to help teams like UNM, SJSU, etc. that were not getting?

We have a current coaching vacancy. Salary will impact the quality of coach as can hire. If DC had 750K to spend to hire a DC, would our Ds have been terrible. Was Glenn too loyal or was his loyalty due to limited budget thus limited options. Recruiting costs money. More money means better recruiting--Bohl himself said as much when hired.

It is no coincidence that the most consistent teams are generally the best funded. Our budget situation has slipped the last decade and we are closer to FCS than we are outr main rival. Our record reflects that.

Wyoming legislature needs to accept that investing in people is ok rather than just investing in buildings. Atletics isn't the only area that has issues with this. Profs leaving because of no salary increases is another example...google it.

[WYCowboy]

We are barely above Montana in football spending and we are much closer to ND State than CSU.

We are handicapping our excellent coache. Perhaps this partly explains why every coach since DD has failed?

In what ways are we handicapping our coaches? What would a huge budget suddenly offer our coaches that they aren't getting now? I'm curious. I guess I don't know what a huge budget does for us in terms of putting a winning product on the field. Can't pay players so it's not going there.... Coaches get paid what they agree to so it cant help here... And what are the bigger budgets doing to help teams like UNM, SJSU, etc. that were not getting?

We have a current coaching vacancy. Salary will impact the quality of coach as can hire. If DC had 750K to spend to hire a DC, would our Ds have been terrible. Was Glenn too loyal or was his loyalty due to limited budget thus limited options. Recruiting costs money. More money means better recruiting--Bohl himself said as much when hired.

It is no coincidence that the most consistent teams are generally the best funded. Our budget situation has slipped the last decade and we are closer to FCS than we are outr main rival. Our record reflects that.

Wyoming legislature needs to accept that investing in people is ok rather than just investing in buildings. Atletics isn't the only area that has issues with this. Profs leaving because of no salary increases is another example...google it.

I have been saying this for years Joe - I just got tired of getting on my soap box about it (and so was everybody else). But the truth is the Wyoming Legislature needs to fund the UW Athletic Dept (and the rest of the university as well) at least to the mid level of the MWC. We need a whole new mindset on this.

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

We are barely above Montana in football spending and we are much closer to ND State than CSU.

We are handicapping our excellent coache. Perhaps this partly explains why every coach since DD has failed?

In what ways are we handicapping our coaches? What would a huge budget suddenly offer our coaches that they aren't getting now? I'm curious. I guess I don't know what a huge budget does for us in terms of putting a winning product on the field. Can't pay players so it's not going there.... Coaches get paid what they agree to so it cant help here... And what are the bigger budgets doing to help teams like UNM, SJSU, etc. that were not getting?

We have a current coaching vacancy. Salary will impact the quality of coach as can hire. If DC had 750K to spend to hire a DC, would our Ds have been terrible. Was Glenn too loyal or was his loyalty due to limited budget thus limited options. Recruiting costs money. More money means better recruiting--Bohl himself said as much when hired.

It is no coincidence that the most consistent teams are generally the best funded. Our budget situation has slipped the last decade and we are closer to FCS than we are outr main rival. Our record reflects that.

Wyoming legislature needs to accept that investing in people is ok rather than just investing in buildings. Atletics isn't the only area that has issues with this. Profs leaving because of no salary increases is another example...google it.

I have been saying this for years Joe - I just got tired of getting on my soap box about it (and so was everybody else). But the truth is the Wyoming Legislature needs to fund the UW Athletic Dept (and the rest of the university as well) at least to the mid level of the MWC. We need a whole new mindset on this.

I apologize to keep beating the same drum, I just am not as familiar with the process. I was under the impression that we are only allowed so many visits and trips and contact with recruits per NCAA regulation. Is that true? If so, how does a biggeof budget change our outlook? Is it HOW the money is spent on a set number of recruiting functions or can we actually schedule more recruiting functions?

The hiring of coaches I get. But it's not like if tomorrow we doubled our athletic budget that Bohl gets a huge raise. He has a contract. If he wants to renegotiate that's one thing. Hiring new coaches with a higher price point will definitely help in theory. By that same token, the concensus was that CDC was a hell of a coach and we paid him so more money doesn't always mean the best coach.

[ragtimejoe1]

I apologize to keep beating the same drum, I just am not as familiar with the process. I was under the impression that we are only allowed so many visits and trips and contact with recruits per NCAA regulation. Is that true? If so, how does a biggeof budget change our outlook? Is it HOW the money is spent on a set number of recruiting functions or can we actually schedule more recruiting functions?

The hiring of coaches I get. But it's not like if tomorrow we doubled our athletic budget that Bohl gets a huge raise. He has a contract. If he wants to renegotiate that's one thing. Hiring new coaches with a higher price point will definitely help in theory. By that same token, the concensus was that CDC was a hell of a coach and we paid him so more money doesn't always mean the best coach.

Coaches and more specifically assistant coaches are where bigger budgets are very helpful. Pay the main man money but give him as much as you can to get the best assistants he can. If/when he leaves, hire from within. You already have better people on staff. I think both DC and Glenn suffered from not being able to get quality assistants or coordinators. The question is was it due to budget or poor decisions? Probably a little of both, but budgets definitely could help in this regard.

For recruiting, it isn't black and white or a linear response (i.e. x dollars in = y more wins). At the end of the day, it is still a somewhat unpredictable game. Still, bigger recruiting budgets can help with consistency. You can hire more people, travel to see more kids, watch more film, etc. That being said, I haven't personally been involved with recruiting, so I'm going off of press. Here are a couple of articles that I like. They also point out some who spent a lot and didn't have success. Still, basing on the past 15 years at WYO, I would say the data is sufficient to suggest budgets are hurting us.

http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2013/08/17/co ... recruiting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... /22813887/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ragtimejoe1]

I have been saying this for years Joe - I just got tired of getting on my soap box about it (and so was everybody else). But the truth is the Wyoming Legislature needs to fund the UW Athletic Dept (and the rest of the university as well) at least to the mid level of the MWC. We need a whole new mindset on this.

I think the only area we disagree on is the level of accountability for Burman. We ask all of our coaches to do more with less and fire them if they don't. I mean I get it; AD is a tough job at WYO. However, shouldn't we hold the AD to the same standards as our coaches?

I just wish Burman had plans other than "ask the legislature" or "ask 1 or 2 big donor". Maybe there are no other options and I'm too hard on Burman? If that is the case, then our future is indeed very bleak.

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

I apologize to keep beating the same drum, I just am not as familiar with the process. I was under the impression that we are only allowed so many visits and trips and contact with recruits per NCAA regulation. Is that true? If so, how does a biggeof budget change our outlook? Is it HOW the money is spent on a set number of recruiting functions or can we actually schedule more recruiting functions?

The hiring of coaches I get. But it's not like if tomorrow we doubled our athletic budget that Bohl gets a huge raise. He has a contract. If he wants to renegotiate that's one thing. Hiring new coaches with a higher price point will definitely help in theory. By that same token, the concensus was that CDC was a hell of a coach and we paid him so more money doesn't always mean the best coach.

Coaches and more specifically assistant coaches are where bigger budgets are very helpful. Pay the main man money but give him as much as you can to get the best assistants he can. If/when he leaves, hire from within. You already have better people on staff. I think both DC and Glenn suffered from not being able to get quality assistants or coordinators. The question is was it due to budget or poor decisions? Probably a little of both, but budgets definitely could help in this regard.

For recruiting, it isn't black and white or a linear response (i.e. x dollars in = y more wins). At the end of the day, it is still a somewhat unpredictable game. Still, bigger recruiting budgets can help with consistency. You can hire more people, travel to see more kids, watch more film, etc. That being said, I haven't personally been involved with recruiting, so I'm going off of press. Here are a couple of articles that I like. They also point out some who spent a lot and didn't have success. Still, basing on the past 15 years at WYO, I would say the data is sufficient to suggest budgets are hurting us.

http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2013/08/17/co ... recruiting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc ... /22813887/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks! I will check out the articles.

[joshvanklomp]

Only 2 head coaches make more than Bohl (Fresno, CSU -- BSU and SDSU make the same)
Only 4 head coaches make more than Shyatt (CSU, UNLV, UNM, SDSU)
Burman makes the least of the ADs that reported their salaries

http://www.abqjournal.com/coaches" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Only 2 head coaches make more than Bohl (Fresno, CSU -- BSU and SDSU make the same)
Only 4 head coaches make more than Shyatt (CSU, UNLV, UNM, SDSU)
Burman makes the least of the ADs that reported their salaries

http://www.abqjournal.com/coaches" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didnt know that. Hard to ask him to act like AD's at other successful universities if he TOO isnt compensated like one...