Re: Former Beav QB transferring.
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:28 pm
Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb?
Haha oh dear. I mean...possibly?BJC wrote:Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb?
Absolutely.BJC wrote:Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb?
And the two RS-freshman on our roster were ranked as good or better than Smith was. Looking on Rivals I don't see any rankings for any of them but they all had a 5.4 rating. On Espn Brett was a 2 star recruit and the #107 QB recruit in the nation. Nick Smith and Austin Fort were both 3 star recruits and Nick Smith was the #71 pocket passer and Fort was the #36 Dual Threat qb.J-Rod wrote:Agreed. Smith wasn't a total unknown though. He was the 89th overall best QB coming out of high school, and he did have a rating. That isn't "highly-touted" by any means, but trust me....that's more than most Wyo recruits can say. Smith was actually one of the top 3 rated recruits in the CDC era.ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Oh I agree completely. Smith was a stud. But he also wasn't highly touted out of high school. Its guys like him Bohl will have to recruit to be successful. He will have to take diamonds in the rough and polish them into something special. The problem with that is 97 times out of 100 all you get is a polished turd.
But yeah, you're overall point is correct. Taking a bunch of unknown, highly under-recruited talent and expecting them to all blossom into something special isn't realistic. If you're lucky, you get one emerging star for every 7-10 terrible players.
I agree. Those numbers mean nothing on themselves, throw in that the system here may not benefit them either. Fort is a Dual Threat which is not advantageous in a pro style offense. Yes its nice he can scramble and create if a play breaks down but he isn't being asked to run spread, isn't asked to run zone reads and zone option reads, and he isn't being asked to be a main running option. Again numbers mean nothing until the cleats hit the field. Can someone step up and lead the team, thats all that matters.TSpoke wrote:And the two RS-freshman on our roster were ranked as good or better than Smith was. Looking on Rivals I don't see any rankings for any of them but they all had a 5.4 rating. On Espn Brett was a 2 star recruit and the #107 QB recruit in the nation. Nick Smith and Austin Fort were both 3 star recruits and Nick Smith was the #71 pocket passer and Fort was the #36 Dual Threat qb.J-Rod wrote:Agreed. Smith wasn't a total unknown though. He was the 89th overall best QB coming out of high school, and he did have a rating. That isn't "highly-touted" by any means, but trust me....that's more than most Wyo recruits can say. Smith was actually one of the top 3 rated recruits in the CDC era.ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Oh I agree completely. Smith was a stud. But he also wasn't highly touted out of high school. Its guys like him Bohl will have to recruit to be successful. He will have to take diamonds in the rough and polish them into something special. The problem with that is 97 times out of 100 all you get is a polished turd.
But yeah, you're overall point is correct. Taking a bunch of unknown, highly under-recruited talent and expecting them to all blossom into something special isn't realistic. If you're lucky, you get one emerging star for every 7-10 terrible players.
What does all that mean? Nothing really. It for sure doesn't mean these two will be as good as Brett but I think it is ridiculous that we have people writing these guys off without ever seeing them perform and claiming since they didn't win the starting job as true freshmen with only the 3 or 4 weeks of fall camp they must be busts.
That doesn't even include Josh Allen who the coaches have been praising so far in camp.
I watched some of NDSU's games after we found out Bohl was coming here. There were several read options and designed QB runs throughout the games. So yeah, dual threat QBs can and will be used to their strengths.ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:I agree. Those numbers mean nothing on themselves, throw in that the system here may not benefit them either. Fort is a Dual Threat which is not advantageous in a pro style offense. Yes its nice he can scramble and create if a play breaks down but he isn't being asked to run spread, isn't asked to run zone reads and zone option reads, and he isn't being asked to be a main running option. Again numbers mean nothing until the cleats hit the field. Can someone step up and lead the team, thats all that matters.TSpoke wrote:And the two RS-freshman on our roster were ranked as good or better than Smith was. Looking on Rivals I don't see any rankings for any of them but they all had a 5.4 rating. On Espn Brett was a 2 star recruit and the #107 QB recruit in the nation. Nick Smith and Austin Fort were both 3 star recruits and Nick Smith was the #71 pocket passer and Fort was the #36 Dual Threat qb.J-Rod wrote:Agreed. Smith wasn't a total unknown though. He was the 89th overall best QB coming out of high school, and he did have a rating. That isn't "highly-touted" by any means, but trust me....that's more than most Wyo recruits can say. Smith was actually one of the top 3 rated recruits in the CDC era.ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Oh I agree completely. Smith was a stud. But he also wasn't highly touted out of high school. Its guys like him Bohl will have to recruit to be successful. He will have to take diamonds in the rough and polish them into something special. The problem with that is 97 times out of 100 all you get is a polished turd.
But yeah, you're overall point is correct. Taking a bunch of unknown, highly under-recruited talent and expecting them to all blossom into something special isn't realistic. If you're lucky, you get one emerging star for every 7-10 terrible players.
What does all that mean? Nothing really. It for sure doesn't mean these two will be as good as Brett but I think it is ridiculous that we have people writing these guys off without ever seeing them perform and claiming since they didn't win the starting job as true freshmen with only the 3 or 4 weeks of fall camp they must be busts.
That doesn't even include Josh Allen who the coaches have been praising so far in camp.
I guess maybe it is dependent on the personel. Colby wasn't running a zone read option but maybe Brett Smith would have. Good point.fromolwyoming wrote:I watched some of NDSU's games after we found out Bohl was coming here. There were several read options and designed QB runs throughout the games. So yeah, dual threat QBs can and will be used to their strengths.ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:I agree. Those numbers mean nothing on themselves, throw in that the system here may not benefit them either. Fort is a Dual Threat which is not advantageous in a pro style offense. Yes its nice he can scramble and create if a play breaks down but he isn't being asked to run spread, isn't asked to run zone reads and zone option reads, and he isn't being asked to be a main running option. Again numbers mean nothing until the cleats hit the field. Can someone step up and lead the team, thats all that matters.TSpoke wrote:And the two RS-freshman on our roster were ranked as good or better than Smith was. Looking on Rivals I don't see any rankings for any of them but they all had a 5.4 rating. On Espn Brett was a 2 star recruit and the #107 QB recruit in the nation. Nick Smith and Austin Fort were both 3 star recruits and Nick Smith was the #71 pocket passer and Fort was the #36 Dual Threat qb.J-Rod wrote:Agreed. Smith wasn't a total unknown though. He was the 89th overall best QB coming out of high school, and he did have a rating. That isn't "highly-touted" by any means, but trust me....that's more than most Wyo recruits can say. Smith was actually one of the top 3 rated recruits in the CDC era.ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: Oh I agree completely. Smith was a stud. But he also wasn't highly touted out of high school. Its guys like him Bohl will have to recruit to be successful. He will have to take diamonds in the rough and polish them into something special. The problem with that is 97 times out of 100 all you get is a polished turd.
But yeah, you're overall point is correct. Taking a bunch of unknown, highly under-recruited talent and expecting them to all blossom into something special isn't realistic. If you're lucky, you get one emerging star for every 7-10 terrible players.
What does all that mean? Nothing really. It for sure doesn't mean these two will be as good as Brett but I think it is ridiculous that we have people writing these guys off without ever seeing them perform and claiming since they didn't win the starting job as true freshmen with only the 3 or 4 weeks of fall camp they must be busts.
That doesn't even include Josh Allen who the coaches have been praising so far in camp.
That is true. There are some decent-to-above average coaches who have high level success despite not knowing the game well...all due to recruiting.BeaverPoke wrote:Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.
Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.
Exceptions are UNLV Basketball & SJSU Football.J-Rod wrote:That is true. There are some decent-to-above average coaches who have high level success despite not knowing the game well...all due to recruiting.BeaverPoke wrote:Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.
Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.
Les Miles - talent developer? Not a chance. We didn't know who Odell Beckham Jr. was until last season with NYG.
Jim Mora Jr. - Recruiting giant, average coach
Steve Sarkisian - See Mora.
Plenty of other examples. Talent wins big at the FBS level.
Eh, I disagree.WYCowboy wrote:Exceptions are UNLV Basketball & SJSU Football.J-Rod wrote:That is true. There are some decent-to-above average coaches who have high level success despite not knowing the game well...all due to recruiting.BeaverPoke wrote:Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.
Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.
Les Miles - talent developer? Not a chance. We didn't know who Odell Beckham Jr. was until last season with NYG.
Jim Mora Jr. - Recruiting giant, average coach
Steve Sarkisian - See Mora.
Plenty of other examples. Talent wins big at the FBS level.
Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?BeaverPoke wrote:Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.
Boise State had an OT now headed for Canton in that game along with 5-6 other NFL players. They were no Cinderella, there was a ton of legitimate talent on that team.Not saying Boise didn't out-coach OU, but the Broncos had a ton of talent on that roster.joshvanklomp wrote: Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?
Every argument you bring up is always the exception vs the rule.joshvanklomp wrote:Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?BeaverPoke wrote:Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.
Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by RivalsJ-Rod wrote:Boise State had an OT now headed for Canton in that game along with 5-6 other NFL players.joshvanklomp wrote: Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?
Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.joshvanklomp wrote: Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals
BeaverPoke wrote:Absolutely.BJC wrote:Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb?
That's the whole reason he put up crazy numbers, didn't get drafted, and got cut 3 days into his NFL "career".
BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.J-Rod wrote:Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.joshvanklomp wrote: Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals
Ryan Clady's NFL career is proof they under valued him on the rating system. Simple as that.joshvanklomp wrote:BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.J-Rod wrote:Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.joshvanklomp wrote: Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals
Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.