Success stories in G5 ranks that took a decade to build?

[kansasCowboy]

I'm not saying fire Bohl or anything but show me a coach at a G5 school that went from 4-8 to 0-12 in his 2nd year and then became successful.... The odds are stacked heavily against Mr. Bohl right now. Will Wyoming go 0-12 ? I think they will they are the worst team in FBS.

Obviously the odds are against it when you limit the requirements to that level. Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Al Golden won a total of 5 games in his first two seasons at Temple. Won 17 games in Years 4 and 5.

I am not saying limit the requirements. He will still get another two years probably on top of the first 2 but I am just saying show me a coach who actually not only got worse from his first year to his 2nd year but actually didn't win even one single game and then turned it around by year 5 or 6? I don't think there is a case for it.

This wasn't part of the criteria.
So you need proof? In your eyes were already 0-12. And I'm sure in a short 20 year time span this probably hasn't occurred. Not sure what your looking for here? Hope? Proof? So what do we do? Do we hope that Bohl will be the first coach to perform this feat? Or do we can him now or in two years and do it again, and again, and again?

The only thing I hope is we don't shoot ourselves in the foot too soon. Koenning is NOT the guy that killed our program. Dimels lack of recruiting for three years was. Koenning had to come in and start with a extremely young team. The wins didn't come... BUT he did progress, from getting Blown out in years one and two, to losing 6 or 7 games by a td or less. We cut him lose the year before he could take HIS seniors to success. Glenn underachieved with a senior heavy team. It's my opinion: but I really think Koenning would have had 6 + wins in Bramlet's, Floyd's, McGuffey's, and Vines last year. But we want something better and went with a "Champion" Glenn and who gave us a 4-8 year.

I have a feeling that Bohl is going to rebuild this program and we will cut him loose too soon and give the reigns to somebody else who will underachieve with Bohls talent.

[kansasCowboy]

If we go 0-12 significant changes need to be made during the off-season.

I don't think anyone minds the idea of a total rebuild of the program. But if the program truly was being "rebuilt" it wouldn't show this regression. There is simply no justification, in the second year of a program, to trot out a team that could reasonably be described as The Worst in the Country. None.

If Bohl and staff were as good as advertised they should have been able to beat North Dakota and Eastern Michigan, at home, on scheme and preparation alone. Not only did they not win, but the games weren't even competitive.

No one is going to fire Bohl after two years. If Wyoming pulled that trigger and tried to find another $750k/year head coach, we might as well just shut the program down for good. Forget dropping to FCS. Just close the doors and have Mad Dog turn off the lights at that point. That simply isn't happening.

But you can google all you want (trust me, I have) but you can't find many examples of an FBS coach who went 0-12 in Year 2 and came back to produce a champion. This shouldn't be surprising. If Bohl thinks recruiting to Laramie is hard now, wait until he carries 0-12 with him over the summer.

I hope this argument is rendered moot and the Pokes pick up three or four surprise wins down the stretch and that the program starts to show some real growth. But if that doesn't happen I hope Bohl or someone will have the nuts to step in and say some adjustments need to be made.

And goddamnit, that's not the same as "giving up" and starting all over. But you tell me if Joe Glenn shouldn't have made the switch from Cockhill two years before he did, or if DC shouldn't have put his ego in check and brought in a real, P5 quality defensive coordinator early in his tenure...

Going 4-8 this year, or even 3-9 but losing a lot of really tough, close, competitive games would have shown me that the culture is changing and that Bohl's rebuild is working. But losing every week, and the way in which we've lost, should tell anyone who is really watching that we have a problem.

I encourage you to read one of the other trending threads that discusses this in length. It explains EXACTLY why we would drop in year two. And probably will.

[TheCup]

So what do we do? I guess we either believe Bohl will be the first to do this and make us a winner or cry like little girls and find another coach and do it again, and again, and again, and again.

That's a good description of where we are. First, I hope we don;t go 0-12 or 1-11. But if we do, I hope Bohl/Burman have the courage to make some course corrections. It seems clear to me that our staff is a bit underwater and could use some experience on board.

Not sure that it would be sustainable to go 0-12 and come back next year with the same staff running the same concepts. There is no shame in making adjustments.

[TheCup]

I encourage you to read one of the other trending threads that discusses this in length. It explains EXACTLY why we would drop in year two. And probably will.

I read it. I enjoyed reading it. And I don't agree entirely with the posts I think you are referencing.

I think many people were ready to accept a step back in Year 2. Even 3-9 with some close, hard-fought losses would have showed long term progression. But that's not what we're seeing. We're seeing a program that took a running, flying leap backwards.

I was ready, and continue to be ready, to enjoy watching a team this year take a step backward in order to take two steps forward next year, and two more steps forward the year after that. But I am not ready, and never will be ready, to watch this program set itself on fire and throw itself down a deep, dark hole.

I hope we pick up a few wins as the year goes by and that all these fears are laid to rest. But all I can do is judge what I see on the field.

[ragtimejoe1]

A couple of points. First, it is much easier to find successful G5 coaches who were successful within the first 4 years than find those who took 5+ years and were successful.

I don't think many if anyone is calling for Bohl's head or suggesting that he gets less than 4 years. Lots of people are concerned, however, with the current level of the program and that concern leads them to question Bohl's long-term success here.

Finally, the learning curve is a steep one for freshmen playing FBS for the first time. However, progress often happens at a much faster pace in young players. Thus, we should see dramatic progress by the end of the season. I have no idea how that will translate to wins and losses this year, but we might not be a 0 win or 1 win team. There are some other pretty bad teams on the schedule. Not as bad as we are, but hopefully we can progress at a faster rate.

[McPeachy]

So what do we do? I guess we either believe Bohl will be the first to do this and make us a winner or cry like little girls and find another coach and do it again, and again, and again, and again.

Did you say the same thing for Vic, and Joe, and Dave? Did you believe that they would have made us winners, and then watched as they were let go, and we had to being again, and again, and again?

Vic, Joe, and DF, at least competed - I haven't seen that from Bohl (with the exception of using Christensen's 20+ seniors he left in place, last year). At least there was a shot at always winning with Joe & Dave. We look completely lost out there, not only from "how young" we are, but every single aspect of the game. We don't compete. We can't even kick a 25 yard field goal.

[J-Rod]

It is okay to want the process and still complain. You can be on board with Bohl and not have to sit in the stands and accept 0-12 like it's part of the process.

If you pay money to go to WMS, or cut out time in your day to watch this team play...you have every right to complain. Especially here...that's what message boards are for. Even winning programs have fans bitching all the time. This isn't WyoPepRallyNation.com

[seattlecowboy]

So here is an article about the worst teams in college football over the last 25 years. Looks like it was written in October of 2014 so pretty much recent.

Every team on this list did not win a game and was outscored by huge amounts. What I did was pick out the G5 schools on the list and look them up to see how they fared with that current coach and what they were able to do after going 0-11 or 0-12.

First team was the 1998 Kent St. team coached by Dean Pees. This is his record by years he coached there.


1998 0-11
1999-2-9
2000-1-10
2001 6-5
2002 3-9
2003 5-7 Fired

SMU Coached by Phil Bennet.... This one could be comparable based on the fact he went 0-12 his 2nd year if indeed Wyoming finished 0-12.

2002 3-9
2003 0-12
2004 3-8
2005 5-6
2006 6-6
2007 1-11 Fired

Temple 2005 0-11 Coached by Bobby Wallace

1998 2-9
1999 2-9
2000 4-7
2001 4-7
2002 4-8
2003 1-10
2004 2-9
2005 0-11 Fired.

The rest are P5 schools so not as comparable.

None of them that went 0-11 or 0-12 after the first year turned it around.

The 1997 Illinois team went 0-11 in Ron Turners first year. Then ended up by 2001 winning the Big Ten but again it was in his First year not his 2nd year that they went 0-11 or 0-12.

Turners record

1997 0-11
1998 3-8
1999 8-4
2000 5-6
2001 10-2
2002 5-7
2003 1-11
2004 3-8 Fired.

As you can see even though Turner turned it around at Illinois for a couple of years they then went right back down the toilet.

So there is no coach that has went 0-12 his 2nd year and turned it around. Maybe coach Bohl will be the first but like I said the odds are against it.

Here is the article if any of you want to read it

http://www.sportingnews.com/list/461744 ... ide/271839

[joshvanklomp]

First team was the 1998 Kent St. team coached by Dean Pees. This is his record by years he coached there.


1998 0-11
1999-2-9
2000-1-10
2001 6-5
2002 3-9
2003 5-7 Fired

SMU Coached by Phil Bennet.... This one could be comparable based on the fact he went 0-12 his 2nd year if indeed Wyoming finished 0-12.

2002 3-9
2003 0-12
2004 3-8
2005 5-6
2006 6-6
2007 1-11 Fired

In both of these cases, it wasn't the original 0-12 season that made them a failure. Both of them got out of the cellar and got their teams to 6 wins. It was their performance once they got to 6 wins that got them fired.

[cali2wyo]

Has a coach of an 0-12 team ever gone on to win a conference championship in that same tenure? I can even be optimist and stretch it out to 1-11, assuming a miracle may happen this season...

[seattlecowboy]

First team was the 1998 Kent St. team coached by Dean Pees. This is his record by years he coached there.


1998 0-11
1999-2-9
2000-1-10
2001 6-5
2002 3-9
2003 5-7 Fired

SMU Coached by Phil Bennet.... This one could be comparable based on the fact he went 0-12 his 2nd year if indeed Wyoming finished 0-12.

2002 3-9
2003 0-12
2004 3-8
2005 5-6
2006 6-6
2007 1-11 Fired

In both of these cases, it wasn't the original 0-12 season that made them a failure. Both of them got out of the cellar and got their teams to 6 wins. It was their performance once they got to 6 wins that got them fired.

I can agree with you on this point but my point is they weren't able to turn the program around enough to make the program successful. So I guess Bohl will get us to 6-6 again which is a lot better than 0-12 but What is the point of that when Joe Glenn and DC did the same thing? They hired a coach to become better than 6-6 so if all we want is 6-6 there are plenty of coaches who can do that once every 4 or 5 years.

[seattlecowboy]

Has a coach of an 0-12 team ever gone on to win a conference championship in that same tenure? I can even be optimist and stretch it out to 1-11, assuming a miracle may happen this season...

Ron Turner did it at Illinois from 1997 to 2001. After they won the conference championship they then went back to being terrible. Ron Turners first team didn't win a game though not his 2nd team. So there is a big difference there.

[cowboyz]

These are very specific metrics to find comparisons, if we were to go 0-12 in Bohl's second year and then come back to win, has it ever been done? I looked up records of some good coaches to see if they were in a similar situation (none are the same, as it's too exact).

Eddie Robison won one game in 41 at Grambling, went undefeated the next year.
Woddy Hayes' first coaching job at Denison he was 2-6 and then followed up with 2 undefeated seasons.
Bear Bryant was 1-9 at Texas A&M and 2 years later undefeated.
Lou Holtz was 0-11 at South Carolina and was 9-3 two years later.
Mack Brown was 1-10 at North Carolina and 9-3 three seasons later.
Bill Snyder was 1-10 at Kansas State, 7-4 two years later and 9-2-1, two years after that.
Hayden Fry seems to be the closest comparison, was 1-9 in his 3rd season at SMU and 8-3 two years later.

[alyssa]

SMU is such a bad example because the program was not allowed to try like other programs (The Pye Penalty).
So after things like the DP and the Pye Penalty it has only been in the last few years that SMU relaxed entry standards but June Jones did not recruit. He would not go down the street to visit the closest high school etc.

The 2016 recruiting class will be SMU's first since the DP where the school is giving it's best try with a serious HC etc.
And is working on making it better.

[Poke in Billings]

Who gives a hoot if its been done before or not. I'm only interested in what happens here. As long as Bohl is pulling in quality recruits, which appears he continues to do, he's got a shot at a great turnaround. I'm bummed like everyone here, but certainly not discouraged. It's going to be fascinating to watch these youngsters and see how they improve as they grow up.

[kansasCowboy]

Who gives a hoot if its been done before or not. I'm only interested in what happens here. As long as Bohl is pulling in quality recruits, which appears he continues to do, he's got a shot at a great turnaround. I'm bummed like everyone here, but certainly not discouraged. It's going to be fascinating to watch these youngsters and see how they improve as they grow up.

I like your enthusiasm. And I'm bummed too. Some of us are able to hold out for hope. Others need proof that that hope exists. That's what this thread is for. To show that turnarounds are possible even in the worst of times.

[cowboyz]

SMU is such a bad example because the program was not allowed to try like other programs (The Pye Penalty).
So after things like the DP and the Pye Penalty it has only been in the last few years that SMU relaxed entry standards but June Jones did not recruit. He would not go down the street to visit the closest high school etc.

The 2016 recruiting class will be SMU's first since the DP where the school is giving it's best try with a serious HC etc.
And is working on making it better.

I actually thought Hayden Fry/SMU was the best example, as it showed a coach that won 4 games and then the next year he won only one, but a couple years later had the team up to 8 wins, which is where this thread started. It was also a roller coaster for years after that, losing season, winning season, but it shows that you can take a step backward and still build a competitive program. All of this was before the death penalty.

[kansasCowboy]

SMU is such a bad example because the program was not allowed to try like other programs (The Pye Penalty).
So after things like the DP and the Pye Penalty it has only been in the last few years that SMU relaxed entry standards but June Jones did not recruit. He would not go down the street to visit the closest high school etc.

The 2016 recruiting class will be SMU's first since the DP where the school is giving it's best try with a serious HC etc.
And is working on making it better.

I actually thought Hayden Fry/SMU was the best example, as it showed a coach that won 4 games and then the next year he won only one, but a couple years later had the team up to 8 wins, which is where this thread started. It was also a roller coaster for years after that, losing season, winning season, but it shows that you can take a step backward and still build a competitive program. All of this was before the death penalty.

I know no one will like this but: Dana Dimel at Houston

3-8
0-11
5-7 - fired
Art Briles takes over same team and goes to a bowl his first year. 7-6.

Northern Illin. Joe Novak:
1-10
0-11
2-9
5-6
6-5
6-5
8-4
10-2
9-3 first Bowl! 6 years of bad to mediocre before actually taking off. Probably would've fired him here since he had 6 years like Glenn. Was worse his second year also.

Rocky Long at New Mexico
3-9
4-7
5-7
6-5
7-7
8-5
This is not his entire career there but shows the years it took to progress.

Darrell Dickey at North Texas
3-8
2-9
3-8
5-7 probably fired at WYO at this point
8-5bowl
9-4 bowl
7-5 bowl to bad we fired him to early... I'm bring a hypothetical here.

That's just a few I've found so far.

[ragtimejoe1]

As soon as you fellas are done, let me know. We'll start listing failed coaches who did not succeed in 4 years and more importantly coaches who were highly successful and succeeded in first 4 years. That ought to give the fanboys weeks of excuse making of why that is not relevant to WYO

[kansasCowboy]

As soon as you fellas are done, let me know. We'll start listing failed coaches who did not succeed in 4 years and more importantly coaches who were highly successful and succeeded in first 4 years. That ought to give the fanboys weeks of excuse making of why that is not relevant to WYO