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We had Brady Hoke at Ball State who took about 5-6 years to build a program that had some success.

What other successful G5 AND ONLY G5 programs took over 4 years to achieve a 7+ win season? If you want to discuss programs that reached 7+ wins then flamed out, start your own thread.

The question is simple what G5 coach and G5 program took 5+ years to reach 7+ wins?

What I want to know is, where do you keep getting this 10 years thing? No one here has said 10 years for Bohl. Most have said 4-5 years (you know, the normal amount of time given to a coach to see where they can get the program?).

fromolwyoming wrote:What I want to know is, where do you keep getting this 10 years thing? No one here has said 10 years for Bohl. Most have said 4-5 years (you know, the normal amount of time given to a coach to see where they can get the program?).

The "decade crowd" is a bit of mockery that mimics the hypersensitivity of some that think it is perfectly acceptable to wander in futility for 6+ years...there is more than 1.

They actually get upset if you suggest that we should see results in the next 2 years. That is my point with accelerating Bohl's timeline. Normally, I would agree with up to 5 years, but, since we blew up the program and are going the youth route, it should pay off quicker not longer.

Thus, we should be over 7 wins if not next year then the following. Obviously, one has to make reasonable judgments based on the landscape. I sure as hell hope we'll be over 7 wins if our schedule turns out as weak as this year. If something happens and a lot of programs pick up the pace making our schedule extremely difficulty, that should be considered.

If you think Bohl only needs 4-5 years, you are labeled as not understanding building a program, and you are the reason WYO fails, and yadda yadda yadda.

The "I told you so"s will get you every time.

WYCowboy wrote:The "I told you so"s will get you every time.

Care to elaborate?

ragtimejoe1 wrote:What other successful G5 AND ONLY G5 programs took over 4 years to achieve a 7+ win season?

Ken Hatfield, AFA

2-9
2-9-1
4-7
8-5
10-2

I'm intrigued by this question. I have a day off, for once... Maybe I'll do some digging into college footballs past today. See what I can find.
Good find Josh.

kansasCowboy wrote:I'm intrigued by this question. I have a day off, for once... Maybe I'll do some digging into college footballs past today. See what I can find.
Good find Josh.

I have some of the Bohl fanboys on ignore so I didn't see his example, but remember, the criteria are: over 4 years (i.e. no 7 win seasons in year 1, 2, 3, or 4), G5 coaches only, and modern era (say since BCS inception).

I could only come up with Brady Hoke. Year 3 to 4 seems pivotal in most G5 rebuilds.

Another is Randy Walker at Miami OH. Didn't win 7 games until Year 6. Started string of 8 wins, 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins

ragtimejoe1 wrote:

kansasCowboy wrote:I'm intrigued by this question. I have a day off, for once... Maybe I'll do some digging into college footballs past today. See what I can find.
Good find Josh.

I have some of the Bohl fanboys on ignore so I didn't see his example, but remember, the criteria are: over 4 years (i.e. no 7 win seasons in year 1, 2, 3, or 4), G5 coaches only, and modern era (say since BCS inception).

I could only come up with Brady Hoke. Year 3 to 4 seems pivotal in most G5 rebuilds.

Another good find Josh. I might not need to look up anything...
When did BCS come in? Was it 98 or so?

joshvanklomp wrote:Another is Randy Walker at Miami OH. Didn't win 7 games until Year 6. Started string of 8 wins, 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins

This isn't even comparable. Your Ken Hatfield comparison was close but this one isn't even the same. While it is true it took Randy Walker 6 years to win more than 7 games he was at least mediocre the first 5 years. 5-5-1, 6-4-1,6-4-1, 4-7, 6-4-1. Bohl is 4-8 and will be 0-12 most likely.

I'm not saying fire Bohl or anything but show me a coach at a G5 school that went from 4-8 to 0-12 in his 2nd year and then became successful.... The odds are stacked heavily against Mr. Bohl right now. Will Wyoming go 0-12 ? I think they will they are the worst team in FBS.

I can see the "Wyoming was the problem, not Bohl" posts coming from Bison fans from 3 years away.

seattlecowboy wrote:I'm not saying fire Bohl or anything but show me a coach at a G5 school that went from 4-8 to 0-12 in his 2nd year and then became successful.... The odds are stacked heavily against Mr. Bohl right now. Will Wyoming go 0-12 ? I think they will they are the worst team in FBS.

Obviously the odds are against it when you limit the requirements to that level. Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Al Golden won a total of 5 games in his first two seasons at Temple. Won 17 games in Years 4 and 5.

J-Rod wrote:I can see the "Wyoming was the problem, not Bohl" posts coming from Bison fans from 3 years away.

Well you can't use that excuse because Wyoming has won in the past and Bohl has actually made Wyoming worse to date then Joe Glenn or DC did. So if Wyoming continues to get worse then it is a Bohl Problem and not a Wyoming problem. It is pretty hard to make something worse then what Wyoming has been but so far Bohl has figured it out. Let's hope he turns it around though.

If you're looking for an example, just stay here in Wyoming and look at Joe Tiller.

'91 4-6-1
'92 5-7
'93 8-4
'94 6-6
'95 6-5
'96 10-2

That's what the sunshine pumpers would say. Just to be clear, I don't think we're on that track. This program stinks of death right now, not of growth or progression. But that's what folks would say and I try to understand where they're coming from - even if it does make me piss blood worse than taking a dozen Aleve.

joshvanklomp wrote:

seattlecowboy wrote:I'm not saying fire Bohl or anything but show me a coach at a G5 school that went from 4-8 to 0-12 in his 2nd year and then became successful.... The odds are stacked heavily against Mr. Bohl right now. Will Wyoming go 0-12 ? I think they will they are the worst team in FBS.

Obviously the odds are against it when you limit the requirements to that level. Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Al Golden won a total of 5 games in his first two seasons at Temple. Won 17 games in Years 4 and 5.

I am not saying limit the requirements. He will still get another two years probably on top of the first 2 but I am just saying show me a coach who actually not only got worse from his first year to his 2nd year but actually didn't win even one single game and then turned it around by year 5 or 6? I don't think there is a case for it.

seattlecowboy wrote:

J-Rod wrote:I can see the "Wyoming was the problem, not Bohl" posts coming from Bison fans from 3 years away.

Well you can't use that excuse because Wyoming has won in the past and Bohl has actually made Wyoming worse to date then Joe Glenn or DC did. So if Wyoming continues to get worse then it is a Bohl Problem and not a Wyoming problem. It is pretty hard to make something worse then what Wyoming has been but so far Bohl has figured it out. Let's hope he turns it around though.

And then when the next coach is fired after 4 years because he hasn't won 7 games in a season? Or the coach after that? Or the next one?

joshvanklomp wrote:

seattlecowboy wrote:

J-Rod wrote:I can see the "Wyoming was the problem, not Bohl" posts coming from Bison fans from 3 years away.

Well you can't use that excuse because Wyoming has won in the past and Bohl has actually made Wyoming worse to date then Joe Glenn or DC did. So if Wyoming continues to get worse then it is a Bohl Problem and not a Wyoming problem. It is pretty hard to make something worse then what Wyoming has been but so far Bohl has figured it out. Let's hope he turns it around though.

And then when the next coach is fired after 4 years because he hasn't won 7 games in a season? Or the coach after that? Or the next one?

If Bohl shows he can win at least 4 or 5 games then maybe he will get an extra year but based on the way things are going I am not sure Bohl will be able to even win 3 games a year in the next 2 years. So let's say he goes 4-8, 0-12, 3-9, 3-9..... Do we give him another year? Most of the coaches records being posted in this thread at least won 4 or 5 games a couple of times before their teams got to 7 wins.

seattlecowboy wrote:

joshvanklomp wrote:

seattlecowboy wrote:I'm not saying fire Bohl or anything but show me a coach at a G5 school that went from 4-8 to 0-12 in his 2nd year and then became successful.... The odds are stacked heavily against Mr. Bohl right now. Will Wyoming go 0-12 ? I think they will they are the worst team in FBS.

Obviously the odds are against it when you limit the requirements to that level. Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Al Golden won a total of 5 games in his first two seasons at Temple. Won 17 games in Years 4 and 5.

I am not saying limit the requirements. He will still get another two years probably on top of the first 2 but I am just saying show me a coach who actually not only got worse from his first year to his 2nd year but actually didn't win even one single game and then turned it around by year 5 or 6? I don't think there is a case for it.

This wasn't part of the criteria, but...
Okay. So in your eyes we will be 0-12 by years ends. I haven't looked anything up yet, but I doubt there is someone who went to 0-12 in their second year and then succeeds in a 18-20 year period.

So what do we do? I guess we either believe Bohl will be the first to do this and make us a winner or cry like little girls and find another coach and do it again, and again, and again, and again.

If we go 0-12 significant changes need to be made during the off-season.

I don't think anyone minds the idea of a total rebuild of the program. But if the program truly was being "rebuilt" it wouldn't show this regression. There is simply no justification, in the second year of a program, to trot out a team that could reasonably be described as The Worst in the Country. None.

If Bohl and staff were as good as advertised they should have been able to beat North Dakota and Eastern Michigan, at home, on scheme and preparation alone. Not only did they not win, but the games weren't even competitive.

No one is going to fire Bohl after two years. If Wyoming pulled that trigger and tried to find another $750k/year head coach, we might as well just shut the program down for good. Forget dropping to FCS. Just close the doors and have Mad Dog turn off the lights at that point. That simply isn't happening.

But you can google all you want (trust me, I have) but you can't find many examples of an FBS coach who went 0-12 in Year 2 and came back to produce a champion. This shouldn't be surprising. If Bohl thinks recruiting to Laramie is hard now, wait until he carries 0-12 with him over the summer.

I hope this argument is rendered moot and the Pokes pick up three or four surprise wins down the stretch and that the program starts to show some real growth. But if that doesn't happen I hope Bohl or someone will have the nuts to step in and say some adjustments need to be made.

And goddamnit, that's not the same as "giving up" and starting all over. But you tell me if Joe Glenn shouldn't have made the switch from Cockhill two years before he did, or if DC shouldn't have put his ego in check and brought in a real, P5 quality defensive coordinator early in his tenure...

Going 4-8 this year, or even 3-9 but losing a lot of really tough, close, competitive games would have shown me that the culture is changing and that Bohl's rebuild is working. But losing every week, and the way in which we've lost, should tell anyone who is really watching that we have a problem.