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calpoke25 wrote:

Wyovanian wrote:

calpoke25 wrote:I think it's actually pretty obvious he was jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate moved in the meantime and he was falling and bracing himself. His teammate is trying to catch him you can see. That being said I still think it warranted a penalty but this talk of criminal battery is absurd.

The player, #95, clearly cocked his arm back and made a fist. I'd say that is pretty clear intent followed by a deliberate blow.

Some see a nut punch (even though he doesn't hit him in the nuts) and others see what I described. Good luck with your case.....

He may have missed his mark, but the footage clearly shows his intent and the delivery of the blow.

It was definitely a closed fist.

I was watching the original broadcast and didn't see anything dirty. The following day, I saw this video on the Facebook feed and wondered how I could possibly have missed that. I found out it was because somebody took the time to edit the video. Click bait. I went back and watched the replay from the ESPN3 app. At 1 hr and 48 minutes into it, you can see the play. The guy jumped up, lost his balance, landed on Josh's ankle and caught himself with an open hand on Josh's thigh. It was certainly unnecessary and probably deserved a flag but editing the video to make it look dirty is much worse IMO.

Charpy wrote:I was watching the original broadcast and didn't see anything dirty. The following day, I saw this video on the Facebook feed and wondered how I could possibly have missed that. I found out it was because somebody took the time to edit the video. Click bait. I went back and watched the replay from the ESPN3 app. At 1 hr and 48 minutes into it, you can see the play. The guy jumped up, lost his balance, landed on Josh's ankle and caught himself with an open hand on Josh's thigh. It was certainly unnecessary and probably deserved a flag but editing the video to make it look dirty is much worse IMO.

Seriously?

Do you have links to both? That sounds rather pathetic.

calpoke25 wrote:I think it's actually pretty obvious he was jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate moved in the meantime and he was falling and bracing himself. His teammate is trying to catch him you can see. That being said I still think it warranted a penalty but this talk of criminal battery is absurd.

I agree.

Criminal battery is absurd in a football game unless a player starts beating up a ref or a fan.

I saw it from the stadium and thought it was a cheap shot as well. After rewatching it, I have no idea. Something should have probably been called.

It was a close game. We could have won that game on any number of merits. Officiating wasn't one of them.

i really don't think he was "catching himself"


he also didn't make a fist......but you can clearly see him land on his foot and then dna rifle his arm back and give josh a shot to the thigh with the heel of his hand.....and as soon as the ref looks at him his hands go up like "i didn't do anything...don't look at me "

i don't give a poop what it looked like in slow motion, the ref was standing there watching it in real time and should have thrown a flag

and nobody stepped on josh's ankle....you can clearly see the player that gives the piggy back ride standin gabout a fioot to the south of josh's feet.....and 95 lands behind him

in basketball this would have been a flagrant 2 all day long

WyoBrandX wrote:

calpoke25 wrote:I think it's actually pretty obvious he was jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate moved in the meantime and he was falling and bracing himself. His teammate is trying to catch him you can see. That being said I still think it warranted a penalty but this talk of criminal battery is absurd.

I agree.

Criminal battery is absurd in a football game unless a player starts beating up a ref or a fan.

I saw it from the stadium and thought it was a cheap shot as well. After rewatching it, I have no idea. Something should have probably been called.

It was a close game. We could have won that game on any number of merits. Officiating wasn't one of them.

i dunno....if you assault someone whyat about standing on a football field makes it okay?

criminal battery? no.....but i think it would be hilarious if josh pressed assault charges

It should have been flagged for excessive celebration like that. I don't see a closed fist, you can interpret it as him cocking his arm back if you want to. Get a couple of D lineman trying to jump on each other's backs in the heat of the moment when the other one isn't looking and I'm sure you could come up with a thousand random little motions that may or may not look like something ergregiois. To me the most egregious thing on that clip is the official standing there and then doing nothing. Should have flagged it for celebrating so close to and making contact with a defenseless player on the ground but it's just so random, it's not a pre-meditated thing.

The player is excited and jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate isn't expecting someone to be jumping on him since he buckles under it. From the time the guy starts buckling and it's apparent the jumper is going to make contact with Allen he has who knows how many mili-seconds to decide "hey I'm gonna try to punch him while I'm at it." Unless you're assuming his goal was to hit Allen all along? Come on guys.

calpoke25 wrote:It should have been flagged for excessive celebration like that. I don't see a closed fist, you can interpret it as him cocking his arm back if you want to. Get a couple of D lineman trying to jump on each other's backs in the heat of the moment when the other one isn't looking and I'm sure you could come up with a thousand random little motions that may or may not look like something ergregiois. To me the most egregious thing on that clip is the official standing there and then doing nothing. Should have flagged it for celebrating so close to and making contact with a defenseless player on the ground but it's just so random, it's not a pre-meditated thing.

The player is excited and jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate isn't expecting someone to be jumping on him since he buckles under it. From the time the guy starts buckling and it's apparent the jumper is going to make contact with Allen he has who knows how many mili-seconds to decide "hey I'm gonna try to punch him while I'm at it." Unless you're assuming his goal was to hit Allen all along? Come on guys.

i said he didn't make a fist


but he does land on his foot and looks plenty stable before hitting josh.....if he was catching himself, we wouldn't have stood right back up like that


and yeah....i do think he ran over to celebrate and saw josh and decide to give him a shot


dude looks super guilty when the ref looks up at him

whyoh wrote:

calpoke25 wrote:It should have been flagged for excessive celebration like that. I don't see a closed fist, you can interpret it as him cocking his arm back if you want to. Get a couple of D lineman trying to jump on each other's backs in the heat of the moment when the other one isn't looking and I'm sure you could come up with a thousand random little motions that may or may not look like something ergregiois. To me the most egregious thing on that clip is the official standing there and then doing nothing. Should have flagged it for celebrating so close to and making contact with a defenseless player on the ground but it's just so random, it's not a pre-meditated thing.

The player is excited and jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate isn't expecting someone to be jumping on him since he buckles under it. From the time the guy starts buckling and it's apparent the jumper is going to make contact with Allen he has who knows how many mili-seconds to decide "hey I'm gonna try to punch him while I'm at it." Unless you're assuming his goal was to hit Allen all along? Come on guys.

i said he didn't make a fist


but he does land on his foot and looks plenty stable before hitting josh.....if he was catching himself, we wouldn't have stood right back up like that


and yeah....i do think he ran over to celebrate and saw josh and decide to give him a shot


dude looks super guilty when the ref looks up at him

Others have said closed fist. What you interpret as a "guilty" look could also be a "oh poop, I didn't mean to touch him I hope I don't get a flag" look. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

It's just amazing the official didn't throw a flag. The first part of the clip shows him running over with his hand up to stop the action and he is literally one foot from Allen on the ground, then it cuts to the jumping action where you can't exactly see how close the official was to the whole matter. The fact that he ran in with his hand up before the jumping and was right there and didn't throw a flag is ridiculous.

WyoBrandX wrote:

calpoke25 wrote:I think it's actually pretty obvious he was jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate moved in the meantime and he was falling and bracing himself. His teammate is trying to catch him you can see. That being said I still think it warranted a penalty but this talk of criminal battery is absurd.

I agree.

Criminal battery is absurd in a football game unless a player starts beating up a ref or a fan.

I saw it from the stadium and thought it was a cheap shot as well. After rewatching it, I have no idea. Something should have probably been called.

It was a close game. We could have won that game on any number of merits. Officiating wasn't one of them.

People used to say the same thing about hockey and basketball. Participation in a game doesn't suspend the rule of law. It would be like saying that if a player somehow brought a gun onto the field and opened fire at the opposition, then it wouldn't be the same as if they weren't playing a game. Running across a field after a play is over and whistled dead and delivering a sucker punch is just as criminal as if it occurred in a parking lot.

Charpy wrote:I was watching the original broadcast and didn't see anything dirty. The following day, I saw this video on the Facebook feed and wondered how I could possibly have missed that. I found out it was because somebody took the time to edit the video. Click bait. I went back and watched the replay from the ESPN3 app. At 1 hr and 48 minutes into it, you can see the play. The guy jumped up, lost his balance, landed on Josh's ankle and caught himself with an open hand on Josh's thigh. It was certainly unnecessary and probably deserved a flag but editing the video to make it look dirty is much worse IMO.

Sounds very apocryphal...

Wyovanian wrote:

WyoBrandX wrote:

calpoke25 wrote:I think it's actually pretty obvious he was jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate moved in the meantime and he was falling and bracing himself. His teammate is trying to catch him you can see. That being said I still think it warranted a penalty but this talk of criminal battery is absurd.

I agree.

Criminal battery is absurd in a football game unless a player starts beating up a ref or a fan.

I saw it from the stadium and thought it was a cheap shot as well. After rewatching it, I have no idea. Something should have probably been called.

It was a close game. We could have won that game on any number of merits. Officiating wasn't one of them.

People used to say the same thing about hockey and basketball. Participation in a game doesn't suspend the rule of law. It would be like saying that if a player somehow brought a gun onto the field and opened fire at the opposition, then it wouldn't be the same as if they weren't playing a game. Running across a field after a play is over and whistled dead and delivering a sucker punch is just as criminal as if it occurred in a parking lot.

There is a huge difference between playing in a game where rules are defined and the rule of law. Taking a gun, knife, or any other weapon for that matter anywhere to cause harm upon a person is criminal (unless there are some legal gun/knife fighting sports that I'm not aware of somewhere).

Hockey is much different than football. Football is much different than boxing. Fighting on the street is much different than fighting in a sport. If it wasn't, football as well as many contact sports would have many arrests during each game. Most contact sports would be illegal.

WyoBrandX wrote:

Wyovanian wrote:

WyoBrandX wrote:

calpoke25 wrote:I think it's actually pretty obvious he was jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate moved in the meantime and he was falling and bracing himself. His teammate is trying to catch him you can see. That being said I still think it warranted a penalty but this talk of criminal battery is absurd.

I agree.

Criminal battery is absurd in a football game unless a player starts beating up a ref or a fan.

I saw it from the stadium and thought it was a cheap shot as well. After rewatching it, I have no idea. Something should have probably been called.

It was a close game. We could have won that game on any number of merits. Officiating wasn't one of them.

People used to say the same thing about hockey and basketball. Participation in a game doesn't suspend the rule of law. It would be like saying that if a player somehow brought a gun onto the field and opened fire at the opposition, then it wouldn't be the same as if they weren't playing a game. Running across a field after a play is over and whistled dead and delivering a sucker punch is just as criminal as if it occurred in a parking lot.

There is a huge difference between playing in a game where rules are defined and the rule of law. Taking a gun, knife, or any other weapon for that matter anywhere to cause harm upon a person is criminal (unless there are some legal gun/knife fighting sports that I'm not aware of somewhere).

Hockey is much different than football. Football is much different than boxing. Fighting on the street is much different than fighting in a sport. If it wasn't, football as well as many contact sports would have many arrests during each game. Most contact sports would be illegal.

Hockey has as much or possibly more contact than football, and basketball has less, but incidents in both sports have resulted in criminal charges against players who engaged in contact that fell beyond the boundaries that are both explicit and implicit in the rules of the respective games.

We have penalties in football for certain forms of excessive roughness, such as horse collars, targeting, etc. that generally happen in the course of play. A player, however, who was nowhere near the end of a play who deliberately walks yards across the field of play after it is blown dead and delivers a blow to another player who is not in much of a position to defend himself or flee is not exceeding the threshold of roughness the rules allow, rather, that player is committing an assault and possible battery on a participant when no rule-defined action is occurring, therefore the player's actions are not protected as game activity.

Wyovanian wrote:

Charpy wrote:I was watching the original broadcast and didn't see anything dirty. The following day, I saw this video on the Facebook feed and wondered how I could possibly have missed that. I found out it was because somebody took the time to edit the video. Click bait. I went back and watched the replay from the ESPN3 app. At 1 hr and 48 minutes into it, you can see the play. The guy jumped up, lost his balance, landed on Josh's ankle and caught himself with an open hand on Josh's thigh. It was certainly unnecessary and probably deserved a flag but editing the video to make it look dirty is much worse IMO.

Sounds very apocryphal...

well poop would have worked just as well......but i like your version.....sounds fancy


but yeah....i have the game sitting on my dvr and it looks just the same as this....nobody anywhere near josh's ankle


"found out someone edited the video" with no explanation of where this magical info came from or a link to where to find it......also the video was shot by someone holding their phone up to the screen.....you're talking some pretty serious professional level editing, and to what gain? to make a player look bad? if the league were to investigate it i assure you they would use the plethora of camera angles available thanks to espn as opposed to judging by some random vine users cell phone video

whyoh wrote:but yeah....i have the game sitting on my dvr and it looks just the same as this....nobody anywhere near josh's ankle

Nobody near his ankle? How do you think Allen got on the ground in the first place? You think he voluntarily downed the ball at the 5-yard line?

59 sacked him. He stood up. As he stood up, 95 jumped on his back, falling over 59 and into Allen. Pay close enough attention and you'll see the ankles/feet were contacted before the open hand on Allen's lower thigh.

https://sportslaw.uslegal.com/sports-crimes/


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joshvanklomp wrote:

whyoh wrote:but yeah....i have the game sitting on my dvr and it looks just the same as this....nobody anywhere near josh's ankle

Nobody near his ankle? How do you think Allen got on the ground in the first place? You think he voluntarily downed the ball at the 5-yard line?

59 sacked him. He stood up. As he stood up, 95 jumped on his back, falling over 59 and into Allen. Pay close enough attention and you'll see the ankles/feet were contacted before the open hand on Allen's lower thigh.

alright i guess if you stretch my definition of the word "near" it's pretty easy to make me sound like a wacko

but you can clearly see that 59 is standing south of josh and 95's feet land behind his

that's what i see every time....i'll check the slo mo on the dvr when i get home tonight

Wyovanian wrote:

WyoBrandX wrote:

Wyovanian wrote:

WyoBrandX wrote:

calpoke25 wrote:I think it's actually pretty obvious he was jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate moved in the meantime and he was falling and bracing himself. His teammate is trying to catch him you can see. That being said I still think it warranted a penalty but this talk of criminal battery is absurd.

I agree.

Criminal battery is absurd in a football game unless a player starts beating up a ref or a fan.

I saw it from the stadium and thought it was a cheap shot as well. After rewatching it, I have no idea. Something should have probably been called.

It was a close game. We could have won that game on any number of merits. Officiating wasn't one of them.

People used to say the same thing about hockey and basketball. Participation in a game doesn't suspend the rule of law. It would be like saying that if a player somehow brought a gun onto the field and opened fire at the opposition, then it wouldn't be the same as if they weren't playing a game. Running across a field after a play is over and whistled dead and delivering a sucker punch is just as criminal as if it occurred in a parking lot.

There is a huge difference between playing in a game where rules are defined and the rule of law. Taking a gun, knife, or any other weapon for that matter anywhere to cause harm upon a person is criminal (unless there are some legal gun/knife fighting sports that I'm not aware of somewhere).

Hockey is much different than football. Football is much different than boxing. Fighting on the street is much different than fighting in a sport. If it wasn't, football as well as many contact sports would have many arrests during each game. Most contact sports would be illegal.

Hockey has as much or possibly more contact than football, and basketball has less, but incidents in both sports have resulted in criminal charges against players who engaged in contact that fell beyond the boundaries that are both explicit and implicit in the rules of the respective games.

We have penalties in football for certain forms of excessive roughness, such as horse collars, targeting, etc. that generally happen in the course of play. A player, however, who was nowhere near the end of a play who deliberately walks yards across the field of play after it is blown dead and delivers a blow to another player who is not in much of a position to defend himself or flee is not exceeding the threshold of roughness the rules allow, rather, that player is committing an assault and possible battery on a participant when no rule-defined action is occurring, therefore the player's actions are not protected as game activity.

Do you have some references to the legal boundaries of sports vs legal issues in College Football? I would be interested in reading more on it.

WyoBrandX wrote:

Wyovanian wrote:

WyoBrandX wrote:

Wyovanian wrote:

WyoBrandX wrote:

calpoke25 wrote:I think it's actually pretty obvious he was jumping on his teammates back to celebrate the play, his teammate moved in the meantime and he was falling and bracing himself. His teammate is trying to catch him you can see. That being said I still think it warranted a penalty but this talk of criminal battery is absurd.

I agree.

Criminal battery is absurd in a football game unless a player starts beating up a ref or a fan.

I saw it from the stadium and thought it was a cheap shot as well. After rewatching it, I have no idea. Something should have probably been called.

It was a close game. We could have won that game on any number of merits. Officiating wasn't one of them.

People used to say the same thing about hockey and basketball. Participation in a game doesn't suspend the rule of law. It would be like saying that if a player somehow brought a gun onto the field and opened fire at the opposition, then it wouldn't be the same as if they weren't playing a game. Running across a field after a play is over and whistled dead and delivering a sucker punch is just as criminal as if it occurred in a parking lot.

There is a huge difference between playing in a game where rules are defined and the rule of law. Taking a gun, knife, or any other weapon for that matter anywhere to cause harm upon a person is criminal (unless there are some legal gun/knife fighting sports that I'm not aware of somewhere).

Hockey is much different than football. Football is much different than boxing. Fighting on the street is much different than fighting in a sport. If it wasn't, football as well as many contact sports would have many arrests during each game. Most contact sports would be illegal.

Hockey has as much or possibly more contact than football, and basketball has less, but incidents in both sports have resulted in criminal charges against players who engaged in contact that fell beyond the boundaries that are both explicit and implicit in the rules of the respective games.

We have penalties in football for certain forms of excessive roughness, such as horse collars, targeting, etc. that generally happen in the course of play. A player, however, who was nowhere near the end of a play who deliberately walks yards across the field of play after it is blown dead and delivers a blow to another player who is not in much of a position to defend himself or flee is not exceeding the threshold of roughness the rules allow, rather, that player is committing an assault and possible battery on a participant when no rule-defined action is occurring, therefore the player's actions are not protected as game activity.

Do you have some references to the legal boundaries of sports vs legal issues in College Football? I would be interested in reading more on it.

https://sportslaw.uslegal.com/sports-crimes/


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