WyoNation.com

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:10 pm**

LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:18 pm
joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:34 pm
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:23 pmPoint guard, schmoint guard. Herndon brings the ball up the court as much as Kelly and Lieberman.
Which shows they trust James to handle the ball less than even a PF. Real encouraging!
All that shows is that it doesn't matter who brings the ball up the court. James is trusted to do whatever he wants on offense.... when he's in.

When I did the conference only stats I realized James was getting even less time than I had thought and his turnovers weren't quite as bad as I had thought. I think his two bad turnovers late in the UNLV game had been at the top of my head and made me think it was worse than it actually was.

So I looked up his minutes played and realized he is averaging 20 minutes per game in conference. He fouled out of 2 games. In the 2 games he fouled out of he played 14 minutes and 19 minutes. In the Nevada game had he not fouled out he would have played about 24 minutes. Not sure how much he would have had in the Fresno game as there is no play by play listed.

So in the 2 games he fouled out he is averaging 16.5 minutes per game. In the 3 games he didn't foul out of in conference he is averaging 22.3 minutes per game. So even if he doesn't foul out of the other two games he is averaging around 22 minutes per game. That is with me giving him benefit and saying Edwards lets him play another 6 minutes in the Fresno game.

He is clearly getting screwed on minutes. He doesn't have to start by any means but he should be playing more than he is.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 pm**

One thing that I think people need to consider is that whether James and Dalton commit costly turnovers is really a moot point if we are not in a close game. I think all of the statistics that have been thrown about prove that we have a better chance of being in contention at the end of the game if those two play more minutes. Therefore, who cares if JJ or Dalton throw the ball away once in a while if they are scoring and playing good defense and keeping us in the game (or helping us get back in the game as it were)? We could play others who supposedly make good turnovers(????) and don't score and get burned on defense, but I for one am all for the +/-.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:34 pm**

DVDA wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:56 pmUsually you try to be objective with your input. Are you really that salty about the lack of support the two point guards are getting from the board? Is it the buttlove some have for James?

I like James, but think some people go overboard with how good he is right now. To me, there's a lot of unfulfilled potential and areas he needs to improve. As one example, he has more turnovers than assists in conference play.

The coaches clearly only view the James at PG lineup as a last resort, which means he's going to have to earn minutes over McManamen and Gorski. JMac is struggling right now, but are you going to bench the 5th year senior home-state leader of the team? And Gorski is the guy who I'd argue has been the best on the team lately.

I'd also argue that with the tempo we play at and the depth we have, it's good to use that depth and keep guys fresh.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:14 pm**

seattlecowboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:10 pm
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:18 pm
joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:34 pm
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:23 pmPoint guard, schmoint guard. Herndon brings the ball up the court as much as Kelly and Lieberman.
Which shows they trust James to handle the ball less than even a PF. Real encouraging!
All that shows is that it doesn't matter who brings the ball up the court. James is trusted to do whatever he wants on offense.... when he's in.
When I did the conference only stats I realized James was getting even less time than I had thought and his turnovers weren't quite as bad as I had thought. I think his two bad turnovers late in the UNLV game had been at the top of my head and made me think it was worse than it actually was.

So I looked up his minutes played and realized he is averaging 20 minutes per game in conference. He fouled out of 2 games. In the 2 games he fouled out of he played 14 minutes and 19 minutes. In the Nevada game had he not fouled out he would have played about 24 minutes. Not sure how much he would have had in the Fresno game as there is no play by play listed.

So in the 2 games he fouled out he is averaging 16.5 minutes per game. In the 3 games he didn't foul out of in conference he is averaging 22.3 minutes per game. So even if he doesn't foul out of the other two games he is averaging around 22 minutes per game. That is with me giving him benefit and saying Edwards lets him play another 6 minutes in the Fresno game.

He is clearly getting screwed on minutes. He doesn't have to start by any means but he should be playing more than he is.

Noooooiiiiice! I see you've come around. JJ really does need to be playing more.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:20 pm**

Statistical analysis: we aren't playing as well as we need to be playing.

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Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:47 am**

joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:34 pm
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:23 pmPoint guard, schmoint guard. Herndon brings the ball up the court as much as Kelly and Lieberman.
Which shows they trust James to handle the ball less than even a PF. Real encouraging!

They trust James to bring it up when he is in also. How many games have you watched? Obviously not many or you are simply as clueless as your avatar looks....

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:55 am**

Wyolie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:47 amThey trust James to bring it up when he is in also. How many games have you watched? Obviously not many or you are simply as clueless as your avatar looks....

Never said that he doesn't bring it up.

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:32 am**

joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:55 am
Wyolie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:47 amThey trust James to bring it up when he is in also. How many games have you watched? Obviously not many or you are simply as clueless as your avatar looks....
Never said that he doesn't bring it up.

Look dufus, it is obvious that when James and Herndon are both in who the coaching staff trusts to bring up the ball. Watch a game or 3 before you spew your opinion.

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:57 am**

joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:34 pm
DVDA wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:56 pmUsually you try to be objective with your input. Are you really that salty about the lack of support the two point guards are getting from the board? Is it the buttlove some have for James?
I like James, but think some people go overboard with how good he is right now. To me, there's a lot of unfulfilled potential and areas he needs to improve. As one example, he has more turnovers than assists in conference play.

The coaches clearly only view the James at PG lineup as a last resort, which means he's going to have to earn minutes over McManamen and Gorski. JMac is struggling right now, but are you going to bench the 5th year senior home-state leader of the team? And Gorski is the guy who I'd argue has been the best on the team lately.

I'd also argue that with the tempo we play at and the depth we have, it's good to use that depth and keep guys fresh.

I'd bench JMac if it meant getting James into the game. Aka Gorski's been good on offense lately (shooting long jumpers) but he plays some of the worst defense I've seen, ever, from a Cowboy basketball player. Gorski is also a pretty awesome rebounder... not. So is Gorski really a net positive? I have my doubts.

Usually teams have one or two players that make you say ''wow'', especially when watching live. Air Force doesn't have anyone like that. Neither does Ut. State. Nevada only had one -Oliver. We have two such players, James and Louis Adams. Just like Nance, Josh Adams, Derek Cooke and Leonard Washington you have to give these guys the minutes and let the chips fall where they may, yeah there's going to be some bad, but there's going to be way more good. James and Adams are good enough ball players relative to their prodigious athleticism that they need more minutes. Their ceilings are high that it's worth it to get through these growing pains to get them comfortable so they can turn into players like JMac, Gorski, Lieberman and Kelly can only dream of.

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:58 am**

Wyolie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:32 am
joshvanklomp wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:55 am
Wyolie Coyote wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:47 amThey trust James to bring it up when he is in also. How many games have you watched? Obviously not many or you are simply as clueless as your avatar looks....
Never said that he doesn't bring it up.
Look dufus, it is obvious that when James and Herndon are both in who the coaching staff trusts to bring up the ball. Watch a game or 3 before you spew your opinion.

JVK's not a dufus, he's just obviously on the wrong side of the argument. JVK is usually a good basketball poster. What happened, JVK???!!

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:30 am**

Stats never tell the whole story. I think you need a couple more categories - like smart (intelligent) play, court awareness, & good shots/bad shots. Not sure how you would measure it, but it would show things quite a bit different.

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:47 am**

LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:57 amUsually teams have one or two players that make you say ''wow'', especially when watching live. Air Force doesn't have anyone like that. Neither does Ut. State. Nevada only had one -Oliver. We have two such players, James and Louis Adams. Just like Nance, Josh Adams, Derek Cooke and Leonard Washington you have to give these guys the minutes and let the chips fall where they may, yeah there's going to be some bad, but there's going to be way more good. James and Adams are good enough ball players relative to their prodigious athleticism that they need more minutes. Their ceilings are high that it's worth it to get through these growing pains to get them comfortable so they can turn into players like JMac, Gorski, Lieberman and Kelly can only dream of.

I disagree with this. Lindsey Drew is a really fun player to watch. He's damn good, and he looks like he's playing effortlessly!

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:11 am**

WYO1016 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:47 am
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:57 amUsually teams have one or two players that make you say ''wow'', especially when watching live. Air Force doesn't have anyone like that. Neither does Ut. State. Nevada only had one -Oliver. We have two such players, James and Louis Adams. Just like Nance, Josh Adams, Derek Cooke and Leonard Washington you have to give these guys the minutes and let the chips fall where they may, yeah there's going to be some bad, but there's going to be way more good. James and Adams are good enough ball players relative to their prodigious athleticism that they need more minutes. Their ceilings are high that it's worth it to get through these growing pains to get them comfortable so they can turn into players like JMac, Gorski, Lieberman and Kelly can only dream of.
I disagree with this. Lindsey Drew is a really fun player to watch. He's damn good, and he looks like he's playing effortlessly!

I don't think there's a team in this conference that wouldn't want Jordan Caroline on their roster, either. 6'7" guard averaging a double-double on a damn good Nevada team

Posted: **Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:19 am**

cali2wyo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:11 am
WYO1016 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:47 am
LanderPoke wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:57 amUsually teams have one or two players that make you say ''wow'', especially when watching live. Air Force doesn't have anyone like that. Neither does Ut. State. Nevada only had one -Oliver. We have two such players, James and Louis Adams. Just like Nance, Josh Adams, Derek Cooke and Leonard Washington you have to give these guys the minutes and let the chips fall where they may, yeah there's going to be some bad, but there's going to be way more good. James and Adams are good enough ball players relative to their prodigious athleticism that they need more minutes. Their ceilings are high that it's worth it to get through these growing pains to get them comfortable so they can turn into players like JMac, Gorski, Lieberman and Kelly can only dream of.
I disagree with this. Lindsey Drew is a really fun player to watch. He's damn good, and he looks like he's playing effortlessly!
I don't think there's a team in this conference that wouldn't want Jordan Caroline on their roster, either. 6'7" guard averaging a double-double on a damn good Nevada team

Both those guys are fine players. I don't know about you, but nothing they did made me say 'wow'. Caroline is a fat bruiser, effective, but not all that exciting. When James and Adams jump they are a foot above everyone else.

That dunk attempt of L. Adams that Oliver blocked was freaking impressive by both.

Posted: **Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:26 pm**

As of 01/19

Dalton 0.91
James 0.88
Naughton 0.71
Adams 0.7
Moemeka 0.69
Marshall 0.61
Herndon 0.59
Jmac 0.54
Aka Gorski 0.53
Barnes 0.51
Kelley 0.45
Lieberman 0.37
Averbuck 0.36

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:55 am**

Been very impressed with Moemeka in his limited minutes

Posted: **Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:03 am**

ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:55 am Been very impressed with Moemeka in his limited minutes

Absolutely. He's a natural rebounder.

Posted: **Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:10 pm**

As of 01/22

1. Dalton 0.93
2. James 0.87
3. Adams 0.7
4. Moemeka 0.69
5. Naughton 0.68
6. Marshall 0.61
7. Herndon 0.6
8. JMac 0.53
9. Aka Gorski 0.53
10. Barnes 0.51
11. Kelley 0.45
12. Lieberman 0.37
13. Averbuck 0.36

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:17 am**

As of 01/25

1. Dalton 0.91
2. James 0.87
3. Adams 0.72
4. Moemeka 0.69
5. Naughton 0.65
6. Marshall 0.61
7. Herndon 0.59
8. Aka Gorski 0.54
9. JMac 0.52
10. Barnes 0.48
11. Kelley 0.44
12. Lieberman 0.37
13. Averbuck 0.36

Adams sky rocketing into the top 3 as JMac continues to plummet significantly...

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:30 am**

ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:17 am Adams sky rocketing into the top 3 as JMac continues to plummet significantly...

I really do feel bad for Jmac, I like him a lot, and love that he's a Wyoming kid, but man oh man he has fallen off the edge of the world during conference play. The comparison's that have been made to Hankerson's slump a couple years ago definitely have merit. Hank that year managed to redeem himself in the conference tourney that took us to the big dance, hopefully Jmac can have a revival of similar sorts, but of late he's been straight up

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