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Wyovanian wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 4:22 pm Speaking for one particular industry, Wyoming really has nothing to lose by raising alcohol taxes. A modestly aggressive increase would still be lower than surrounding states. The argument against it is that it raises prices on residents. My answer to that is that too many of our residents want to live in a time bubble and pretend that Wyoming's prices for alcoholic beverages should always be ridiculously lower than they are elsewhere.

Simply put, if the state was to force the retailers to raise prices by boosting the wholesale cost, no one could really retaliate by voting with their wallets and going to another bar or liquor store. Retailers, whether liquor store, bar, or restaurant will simply pass the increased cost along to the customer....

Good point, I agree.

Wyoming should have also raised tobacco taxes (that they fanned on), as well as implemented an additional state wide - (separate from the county) tourism tax (on hotel room nights). It would also benefit Wyoming to hike rates on out of state hunting and fishing licenses, as well as out of state camping site use fees.

Bad part is, and you referenced it, the "time bubble" folks (aka good 'ol boys) hear "tax increases" and instantly close their eyes and ears to potential opportunity.

McPeachy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 9:55 am

Wyovanian wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 4:22 pm Speaking for one particular industry, Wyoming really has nothing to lose by raising alcohol taxes. A modestly aggressive increase would still be lower than surrounding states. The argument against it is that it raises prices on residents. My answer to that is that too many of our residents want to live in a time bubble and pretend that Wyoming's prices for alcoholic beverages should always be ridiculously lower than they are elsewhere.

Simply put, if the state was to force the retailers to raise prices by boosting the wholesale cost, no one could really retaliate by voting with their wallets and going to another bar or liquor store. Retailers, whether liquor store, bar, or restaurant will simply pass the increased cost along to the customer....

Good point, I agree.

Wyoming should have also raised tobacco taxes (that they fanned on), as well as implemented an additional state wide - (separate from the county) tourism tax (on hotel room nights). It would also benefit Wyoming to hike rates on out of state hunting and fishing licenses, as well as out of state camping site use fees.

Bad part is, and you referenced it, the "time bubble" folks (aka good 'ol boys) hear "tax increases" and instantly close their eyes and ears to potential opportunity.

Here's what I don't get, Wyoming has lower alcohol taxes than Nebraska but wholesale beer in Wyoming is more expensive than retail in Nebraska.

McPeachy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 9:55 am

Wyovanian wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 4:22 pm Speaking for one particular industry, Wyoming really has nothing to lose by raising alcohol taxes. A modestly aggressive increase would still be lower than surrounding states. The argument against it is that it raises prices on residents. My answer to that is that too many of our residents want to live in a time bubble and pretend that Wyoming's prices for alcoholic beverages should always be ridiculously lower than they are elsewhere.

Simply put, if the state was to force the retailers to raise prices by boosting the wholesale cost, no one could really retaliate by voting with their wallets and going to another bar or liquor store. Retailers, whether liquor store, bar, or restaurant will simply pass the increased cost along to the customer....

Good point, I agree.

Wyoming should have also raised tobacco taxes (that they fanned on), as well as implemented an additional state wide - (separate from the county) tourism tax (on hotel room nights). It would also benefit Wyoming to hike rates on out of out of state hunting and fishing licenses, as well as out of state camping site use fees.

Bad part is, and you referenced it, the "time bubble" folks (aka good 'ol boys) hear "tax increases" and instantly close their eyes and ears to potential opportunity.

if we double the cost and say 40% less buy them we still make more $ money and it's less crowded. Win win

303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 11:05 am Here's what I don't get, Wyoming has lower alcohol taxes than Nebraska but wholesale beer in Wyoming is more expensive than retail in Nebraska.

Liquor is taxed at a higher rate than beer in Nebraska. Beer is cheaper, but liquor is way more expensive.

Wine tax - NE $0.97/gal - WY $0.28/gal
Beer tax - NE $0.31/gal - WY $0.02/gal
Liquor tax - NE $3.75/gal - WY $0.95/gal

That being said, I have no idea why beer is cheaper in Nebraska. Maybe a lower alcohol content?

WYO1016 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 2:34 pm

303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 11:05 am Here's what I don't get, Wyoming has lower alcohol taxes than Nebraska but wholesale beer in Wyoming is more expensive than retail in Nebraska.

Liquor is taxed at a higher rate than beer in Nebraska. Beer is cheaper, but liquor is way more expensive.

Wine tax - NE $0.97/gal - WY $0.28/gal
Beer tax - NE $0.31/gal - WY $0.02/gal
Liquor tax - NE $3.75/gal - WY $0.95/gal

That being said, I have no idea why beer is cheaper in Nebraska. Maybe a lower alcohol content?

Is beer in Nebraska 3.2% like it is here in Oklahoma?

Wyokie wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 4:05 pm

WYO1016 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 2:34 pm

303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 11:05 am Here's what I don't get, Wyoming has lower alcohol taxes than Nebraska but wholesale beer in Wyoming is more expensive than retail in Nebraska.

Liquor is taxed at a higher rate than beer in Nebraska. Beer is cheaper, but liquor is way more expensive.

Wine tax - NE $0.97/gal - WY $0.28/gal
Beer tax - NE $0.31/gal - WY $0.02/gal
Liquor tax - NE $3.75/gal - WY $0.95/gal

That being said, I have no idea why beer is cheaper in Nebraska. Maybe a lower alcohol content?

Is beer in Nebraska 3.2% like it is here in Oklahoma?

No, same beer just cheaper. You can typically get a 30 pack of bud light for the same price as a case in Wyo

WYO1016 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 2:34 pm

303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 11:05 am Here's what I don't get, Wyoming has lower alcohol taxes than Nebraska but wholesale beer in Wyoming is more expensive than retail in Nebraska.

Liquor is taxed at a higher rate than beer in Nebraska. Beer is cheaper, but liquor is way more expensive.

Wine tax - NE $0.97/gal - WY $0.28/gal
Beer tax - NE $0.31/gal - WY $0.02/gal
Liquor tax - NE $3.75/gal - WY $0.95/gal

That being said, I have no idea why beer is cheaper in Nebraska. Maybe a lower alcohol content?

Supply and Demand???

303cowboy wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2017 8:43 am

Wyokie wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 4:05 pm

WYO1016 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 2:34 pm

303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 11:05 am Here's what I don't get, Wyoming has lower alcohol taxes than Nebraska but wholesale beer in Wyoming is more expensive than retail in Nebraska.

Liquor is taxed at a higher rate than beer in Nebraska. Beer is cheaper, but liquor is way more expensive.

Wine tax - NE $0.97/gal - WY $0.28/gal
Beer tax - NE $0.31/gal - WY $0.02/gal
Liquor tax - NE $3.75/gal - WY $0.95/gal

That being said, I have no idea why beer is cheaper in Nebraska. Maybe a lower alcohol content?

Is beer in Nebraska 3.2% like it is here in Oklahoma?

No, same beer just cheaper. You can typically get a 30 pack of bud light for the same price as a case in Wyo

So a promotional item (the 30 pack) in Nebraska is retail priced about the same as a case (24 pack) retail priced in Wyoming? How does that mean that wholesale prices in Wyoming are higher than retail prices in Nebraska?

McPeachy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 9:55 am

Wyovanian wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 4:22 pm Speaking for one particular industry, Wyoming really has nothing to lose by raising alcohol taxes. A modestly aggressive increase would still be lower than surrounding states. The argument against it is that it raises prices on residents. My answer to that is that too many of our residents want to live in a time bubble and pretend that Wyoming's prices for alcoholic beverages should always be ridiculously lower than they are elsewhere.

Simply put, if the state was to force the retailers to raise prices by boosting the wholesale cost, no one could really retaliate by voting with their wallets and going to another bar or liquor store. Retailers, whether liquor store, bar, or restaurant will simply pass the increased cost along to the customer....

Good point, I agree.

Wyoming should have also raised tobacco taxes (that they fanned on), as well as implemented an additional state wide - (separate from the county) tourism tax (on hotel room nights). It would also benefit Wyoming to hike rates on out of state hunting and fishing licenses, as well as out of state camping site use fees.

Bad part is, and you referenced it, the "time bubble" folks (aka good 'ol boys) hear "tax increases" and instantly close their eyes and ears to potential opportunity.

The fiscal risk aversion in this state is near-comical. It is so easy for out-of-state businesses to target established competitors through prudent strategic investment. Too many folks don't recognize DYNAMIC financial health as a huge competitive advantage over paranoia-hoarded cash reserves. They're so worried about the financial end of their world (or at least revenue end) that they ignore how the rest of the world is still flying right along.

Dealing with a local outdoor sports advocate and lobbyist, I asked him what the cost to a Wyoming resident was to fish in Idaho and Utah vs. residents of those states. His answer- "Dunno." he followed that up with, "But why mess with a good thing?" My reply, "Maybe the good thing could be a whole lot better. In other words, what you may think is a good thing, isn't such a good thing."

Sometimes it's hard for people to face that because it means they've been a sucker for quite some time. Better to ignore it and pretend, along with everyone else, that it's not a possibility.

Sadly, people in Wyoming seem to waste a great deal of time and squander a lot of money to avoid inevitable realities.

Wyovanian wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 3:11 pm

303cowboy wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2017 8:43 am

Wyokie wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 4:05 pm

WYO1016 wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 2:34 pm

303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 11:05 am Here's what I don't get, Wyoming has lower alcohol taxes than Nebraska but wholesale beer in Wyoming is more expensive than retail in Nebraska.

Liquor is taxed at a higher rate than beer in Nebraska. Beer is cheaper, but liquor is way more expensive.

Wine tax - NE $0.97/gal - WY $0.28/gal
Beer tax - NE $0.31/gal - WY $0.02/gal
Liquor tax - NE $3.75/gal - WY $0.95/gal

That being said, I have no idea why beer is cheaper in Nebraska. Maybe a lower alcohol content?

Is beer in Nebraska 3.2% like it is here in Oklahoma?

No, same beer just cheaper. You can typically get a 30 pack of bud light for the same price as a case in Wyo

So a promotional item (the 30 pack) in Nebraska is retail priced about the same as a case (24 pack) retail priced in Wyoming? How does that mean that wholesale prices in Wyoming are higher than retail prices in Nebraska?

30 packs aren't promotions, they just don't sell them in Wyoming or Colorado for some reason. Regarding wholesale price, my brother in law has a liquor licence so I know what he pays per beer and it's more than retail price in Nebraska.

303cowboy wrote: ↑Tue May 23, 2017 7:34 am 30 packs aren't promotions, they just don't sell them in Wyoming or Colorado for some reason. Regarding wholesale price, my brother in law has a liquor licence so I know what he pays per beer and it's more than retail price in Nebraska.

I would venture to guess that his cost issues stem from all distributors having to buy their alcohol from the Wyoming State Liquor Commission. Yes, our taxes our low, but you would think that the liquor commission marks up the products when they sell to the liquor stores and bars.

McPeachy wrote: ↑Mon May 15, 2017 9:55 am

Wyovanian wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2017 4:22 pm Speaking for one particular industry, Wyoming really has nothing to lose by raising alcohol taxes. A modestly aggressive increase would still be lower than surrounding states. The argument against it is that it raises prices on residents. My answer to that is that too many of our residents want to live in a time bubble and pretend that Wyoming's prices for alcoholic beverages should always be ridiculously lower than they are elsewhere.

Simply put, if the state was to force the retailers to raise prices by boosting the wholesale cost, no one could really retaliate by voting with their wallets and going to another bar or liquor store. Retailers, whether liquor store, bar, or restaurant will simply pass the increased cost along to the customer....

Good point, I agree.

Wyoming should have also raised tobacco taxes (that they fanned on), as well as implemented an additional state wide - (separate from the county) tourism tax (on hotel room nights). It would also benefit Wyoming to hike rates on out of state hunting and fishing licenses, as well as out of state camping site use fees.

Bad part is, and you referenced it, the "time bubble" folks (aka good 'ol boys) hear "tax increases" and instantly close their eyes and ears to potential opportunity.

Why don't we put a flat % on these taxes? Eg set the alcohol tax to 10%. The only time this doesn't work well is when we go into deflation or need more money.

I think Wyoming could learn something from Montana. A % tax should be added to license plates to allow all Wyomingites access to state parks with state plates. Then charge the out-of-staters all you want to camp/etc. Your covered with Wyoming plates on your car.

I know this won't be popular but I think we should increase the gas tax. Visitors will pay more. We will pay more. But we need the roads anyways. We just happen to have alot of visitors!

I've often thought Montana screws up by not having a Sales tax because of all the visitors. It would take alot of gas tax to deter all that I80 traffic

WyoBrandX wrote:I know this won't be popular but I think we should increase the gas tax. Visitors will pay more. We will pay more. But we need the roads anyways. We just happen to have alot of visitors!

I've often thought Montana screws up by not having a Sales tax because of all the visitors. It would take alot of gas tax to deter all that I80 traffic

Wyo plates are already pretty damn expensive. I've have plates from several different states, and Wyo was one of the most expensive to get/keep.

kdwrightuwyo wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2017 6:38 am

WyoBrandX wrote:I know this won't be popular but I think we should increase the gas tax. Visitors will pay more. We will pay more. But we need the roads anyways. We just happen to have alot of visitors!

I've often thought Montana screws up by not having a Sales tax because of all the visitors. It would take alot of gas tax to deter all that I80 traffic

Wyo plates are already pretty damn expensive. I've have plates from several different states, and Wyo was one of the most expensive to get/keep.

This is true. Compared to several other states, our vehicle registrations are high.

The state should use some of the billions of dollars in its coffers to invest in bringing high speed internet to the majority of Wyoming communities. The importance of that commodity is not well understood unless you have spent time outside of the state. If you want to attract young people and new business you simply have to have it. Young people and entrepreneurs are simply not moving to somewhere where internet service is sketchy and slow at best. It would require a massive investment and forward thinking from the state legislature, which means it won't happen.

calpoke25 wrote:The state should use some of the billions of dollars in its coffers to invest in bringing high speed internet to the majority of Wyoming communities. The importance of that commodity is not well understood unless you have spent time outside of the state. If you want to attract young people and new business you simply have to have it. Young people and entrepreneurs are simply not moving to somewhere where internet service is sketchy and slow at best. It would require a massive investment and forward thinking from the state legislature, which means it won't happen.

Years ago, a sweetwater county commissioner was trying to bring fiber here but was summarily blocked by the local cable company's owner and his ties to the GR government. Hell, he light have even been a city council member. Sort of a conflict of interest/. Would have been real nice if we had done that years ago.


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laxwyo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:01 am

calpoke25 wrote:The state should use some of the billions of dollars in its coffers to invest in bringing high speed internet to the majority of Wyoming communities. The importance of that commodity is not well understood unless you have spent time outside of the state. If you want to attract young people and new business you simply have to have it. Young people and entrepreneurs are simply not moving to somewhere where internet service is sketchy and slow at best. It would require a massive investment and forward thinking from the state legislature, which means it won't happen.

Years ago, a sweetwater county commissioner was trying to bring fiber here but was summarily blocked by the local cable company's owner and his ties to the GR government. Hell, he light have even been a city council member. Sort of a conflict of interest/. Would have been real nice if we had done that years ago.

We have municipal fiber in Longmont, CO now. CenturyLink and Comcast had spent a crapton of money to block it legislatively on a local basis, but the residents managed to get a repeal in 2010 or so. Comcast and CenturyLink kept spending a bunch of money to scare people about how terrible it was going to be and all the things they'd lose if they switched.

I spent $80/month + fees for "30 Mbps" (most of the time download speeds were at around 500 kbps) with CenturyLink until NextLight finally was available at my house. I now average about 950 Mbps down and up for $49.95 a month flat cost. No equipment rental, taxes are included, no connection fees, no randomly increasing rates... it's been awesome.

Comcast and CenturyLink are still trying to scare people who haven't switched yet... and they've finally started upgrading their own services. Funny how that never happened before there was a real competitor!


And as a side note: the housing market here has gone insane and there's a ton of businesses and people moving in. Something like that could definitely happen in Wyoming towns as well.

Asmodeanreborn wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:33 pm

laxwyo wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:01 am

calpoke25 wrote:The state should use some of the billions of dollars in its coffers to invest in bringing high speed internet to the majority of Wyoming communities. The importance of that commodity is not well understood unless you have spent time outside of the state. If you want to attract young people and new business you simply have to have it. Young people and entrepreneurs are simply not moving to somewhere where internet service is sketchy and slow at best. It would require a massive investment and forward thinking from the state legislature, which means it won't happen.

Years ago, a sweetwater county commissioner was trying to bring fiber here but was summarily blocked by the local cable company's owner and his ties to the GR government. Hell, he light have even been a city council member. Sort of a conflict of interest/. Would have been real nice if we had done that years ago.

We have municipal fiber in Longmont, CO now. CenturyLink and Comcast had spent a crapton of money to block it legislatively on a local basis, but the residents managed to get a repeal in 2010 or so. Comcast and CenturyLink kept spending a bunch of money to scare people about how terrible it was going to be and all the things they'd lose if they switched.

I spent $80/month + fees for "30 Mbps" (most of the time download speeds were at around 500 kbps) with CenturyLink until NextLight finally was available at my house. I now average about 950 Mbps down and up for $49.95 a month flat cost. No equipment rental, taxes are included, no connection fees, no randomly increasing rates... it's been awesome.

Comcast and CenturyLink are still trying to scare people who haven't switched yet... and they've finally started upgrading their own services. Funny how that never happened before there was a real competitor!

And as a side note: the housing market here has gone insane and there's a ton of businesses and people moving in. Something like that could definitely happen in Wyoming towns as well.

edit: post was horked

Did comcast finally pull their data cap as a result? That is the most greediest ploy i've seen the ISP's do in a long time.

Dial-up was originally metered. So many ISP's sprung up that everyone had to go to unlimited time. Then DSL turned out to be a bit of a flop due to distance and physical plant limitations. Its given cable a good opportunity to monopolize.

I've been starting to wonder if a municipal fiber system with competing ISP's isn't such a bad idea these days. Maybe wireless spectrum will open up a bit too to allow for some competition.

I honestly don't know. I had Comcast from about 2009 to 2010 (which I think was before data caps?), and then I switched and bundled DirecTV and CenturyLink. I don't think CenturyLink capped anything, unless that's the reason my Internet connection was so damn slow!

The one potential downside of municipal fiber, of course, would be if some new and awesome technology made it completely obsolete while the city/municipality was still paying back the costs to fund it all. It's definitely a bit of a risk, but I think for Longmont it's already paid off in terms of the tech talent that's moved here as a result and who is now paying sales tax here... and obviously higher property tax incomes as well. Oh, and adoption rate is way higher than they budgeted for, so more people subscribing means more subscription money flowing in faster. Now if only their cable partner (Layer3 - which is a private company) would add Altitude Sports so I could bail on DirecTV...

While I might grumble at my property taxes going up because of my house's appreciation in value, I suppose it's all really a great thing, especially since our park system, schools, and things to do for kids in general is pretty awesome.