UW Block Grant Budget Amendment

[LawPoke]

I can’t see how the legislature directly limiting the courses and degrees available for students as helping enrollment. For those students (perhaps unwisely) desiring to study and/or earn a degree in Women’s Studies, clearly Wyoming is no longer a viable option.

How many students is that? 5? 10? Not being a jerk but from a practical standpoint, I doubt lack of women's studies impacts UW that much. Most likely those that are interested in Women's Studies AND UW will just pick another major. I might be wrong but I seriously doubt UW was pulling a lot of students solely for the Women's Studies program.

My bigger concern is the impact on recruiting faculty. It's Women's Studies today. It might be Geology, Chemistry, Biology or Atmospheric Science tomorrow if they deign to study anything that might touch on climate change. It might be the law school - as it was when I was in Law School - if a professor questions livestock grazing practices on federal land. It's the slippery slope of restricting thought. Frankly, if you want to cut funding for the WS department - fine. But they did much more than that. They said that even if UW brings in 100% outside money to fund the department, they can't. The WS amendment is clear that any funding of a WS program (no matter the source of funds) means UW loses all state funding.

Pairing the WS amendment with the idea of having the WY Legislature being able to line item anything they want on a whim by doing away with the block grant form of funding makes it 100x worse. Again, what whizbang Tier 1 prof is going to come here if they risk getting whacked because they might be a little controversial? Are we that scared of new ideas and different thoughts that we can't even have people discuss certain topics? Censorship and limiting academic freedom is the refuge of the weak. If your ideas are so gall-derned superior, what are you afraid of?

[ragtimejoe1]

How many students is that? 5? 10? Not being a jerk but from a practical standpoint, I doubt lack of women's studies impacts UW that much. Most likely those that are interested in Women's Studies AND UW will just pick another major. I might be wrong but I seriously doubt UW was pulling a lot of students solely for the Women's Studies program.

My bigger concern is the impact on recruiting faculty. It's Women's Studies today. It might be Geology, Chemistry, Biology or Atmospheric Science tomorrow if they deign to study anything that might touch on climate change. It might be the law school - as it was when I was in Law School - if a professor questions livestock grazing practices on federal land. It's the slippery slope of restricting thought. Frankly, if you want to cut funding for the WS department - fine. But they did much more than that. They said that even if UW brings in 100% outside money to fund the department, they can't. The WS amendment is clear that any funding of a WS program (no matter the source of funds) means UW loses all state funding.

Pairing the WS amendment with the idea of having the WY Legislature being able to line item anything they want on a whim by doing away with the block grant form of funding makes it 100x worse. Again, what whizbang Tier 1 prof is going to come here if they risk getting whacked because they might be a little controversial? Are we that scared of new ideas and different thoughts that we can't even have people discuss certain topics? Censorship and limiting academic freedom is the refuge of the weak. If your ideas are so gall-derned superior, what are you afraid of?

Meh, I'm not talking right or wrong. I'm just saying I really doubt that anything too extreme happens. I don't think there will be any meaningful and measurable impacts on UW. I guess time will tell.

[LawPoke]

My bigger concern is the impact on recruiting faculty. It's Women's Studies today. It might be Geology, Chemistry, Biology or Atmospheric Science tomorrow if they deign to study anything that might touch on climate change. It might be the law school - as it was when I was in Law School - if a professor questions livestock grazing practices on federal land. It's the slippery slope of restricting thought. Frankly, if you want to cut funding for the WS department - fine. But they did much more than that. They said that even if UW brings in 100% outside money to fund the department, they can't. The WS amendment is clear that any funding of a WS program (no matter the source of funds) means UW loses all state funding.

Pairing the WS amendment with the idea of having the WY Legislature being able to line item anything they want on a whim by doing away with the block grant form of funding makes it 100x worse. Again, what whizbang Tier 1 prof is going to come here if they risk getting whacked because they might be a little controversial? Are we that scared of new ideas and different thoughts that we can't even have people discuss certain topics? Censorship and limiting academic freedom is the refuge of the weak. If your ideas are so gall-derned superior, what are you afraid of?

Meh, I'm not talking right or wrong. I'm just saying I really doubt that anything too extreme happens. I don't think there will be any meaningful and measurable impacts on UW. I guess time will tell.

I don’t trust the WY Legislature anymore than I trust the US Congress.

[LanderPoke]

Like 95% of college professors are leftists or left leaning so it’s super naive to think no leftist indoctrination happens at universities including ours. I understand both sides. It’s not great that you send a kid to college and all this leftist ideology gets rammed down their throats, and I truly think the world would be better off with many fewer democrats, but I also believe in academic freedom and everyone has a brain and can choose what to believe for themselves. It’s a tough one - I mean most of the DEI stuff is utterly useless BS, but I want that stuff to be defeated in t he marketplace of ideas. Perhaps this is that happening in a way

[LanderPoke]

Here’s a good article on what the state of Utah is doing with their universities. I gotta say I’m very impressed.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/t ... has-begun/

Students are way better served to be educated in the classical tradition of western liberalism than the marxist poop the DEI is.

[Asmodeanreborn]

Like 95% of college professors are leftists or left leaning so it’s super naive to think no leftist indoctrination happens at universities including ours. I understand both sides. It’s not great that you send a kid to college and all this leftist ideology gets rammed down their throats, and I truly think the world would be better off with many fewer democrats, but I also believe in academic freedom and everyone has a brain and can choose what to believe for themselves. It’s a tough one - I mean most of the DEI stuff is utterly useless BS, but I want that stuff to be defeated in t he marketplace of ideas. Perhaps this is that happening in a way

What's "leftist" in your mind?

Anthropomorphic climate change is real?
Gay people should have the same rights and responsibilities as straight people?
It's healthy to question the beliefs and values you were raised with, even if you don't change them?
The United States have not always been on the right side of history?
Planet earth is significantly older than 6,000 years?
Injustices in the past can have a bearing on the success of future generations?

If those are leftist ideas - sure! That also means the rest of the first world is leaning heavily to the left.

On the other hand, if you've had college professors who are talking about how private industry should be owned and controlled by the government, and people should be happy standing in line for their weekly rations and working whatever job is assigned to them for the rest of their lives, then you might have actually had leftist professors. Maybe they'll even throw in how Lenin was truly a great leader, and that Stalin had good intentions.


Also, if you actually believe the vast majority of the Democratic party is leftist... lol. Almost all of the ones in Congress are owned by their corporate overlords - same as GOP.

[ragtimejoe1]

Like 95% of college professors are leftists or left leaning so it’s super naive to think no leftist indoctrination happens at universities including ours. I understand both sides. It’s not great that you send a kid to college and all this leftist ideology gets rammed down their throats, and I truly think the world would be better off with many fewer democrats, but I also believe in academic freedom and everyone has a brain and can choose what to believe for themselves. It’s a tough one - I mean most of the DEI stuff is utterly useless BS, but I want that stuff to be defeated in t he marketplace of ideas. Perhaps this is that happening in a way

What's "leftist" in your mind?

Anthropomorphic climate change is real?
Gay people should have the same rights and responsibilities as straight people?
It's healthy to question the beliefs and values you were raised with, even if you don't change them?
The United States have not always been on the right side of history?
Planet earth is significantly older than 6,000 years?
Injustices in the past can have a bearing on the success of future generations?

If those are leftist ideas - sure! That also means the rest of the first world is leaning heavily to the left.

On the other hand, if you've had college professors who are talking about how private industry should be owned and controlled by the government, and people should be happy standing in line for their weekly rations and working whatever job is assigned to them for the rest of their lives, then you might have actually had leftist professors. Maybe they'll even throw in how Lenin was truly a great leader, and that Stalin had good intentions.


Also, if you actually believe the vast majority of the Democratic party is leftist... lol. Almost all of the ones in Congress are owned by their corporate overlords - same as GOP.

Should children who wish to be identified a certain way be removed from parents if the parents refuse to comply with the child's wishes?

Does human brutality start with colonialism in the America's?

[doreno5]

How many students is that? 5? 10? Not being a jerk but from a practical standpoint, I doubt lack of women's studies impacts UW that much. Most likely those that are interested in Women's Studies AND UW will just pick another major. I might be wrong but I seriously doubt UW was pulling a lot of students solely for the Women's Studies program.

From the last graduation I went to, I believe that there are a considerable number of minors in the Women’s Studies program. Could be the difference between some students attending or not. Or just the fact of the legislature’s decision might turn them off. I don’t know about you, but I saw a lot of pink hats in my Facebook feed a few years ago. Whether it has a significant impact or not, I see no way it can help enrollment.

More significantly it sends a message that the Legislature is willing to ban differing points of view and ideas from UW. Basically it says we are against indoctrination unless the indoctrination is favorable to the point of view a majority of the Legislature favors.

[ragtimejoe1]

How many students is that? 5? 10? Not being a jerk but from a practical standpoint, I doubt lack of women's studies impacts UW that much. Most likely those that are interested in Women's Studies AND UW will just pick another major. I might be wrong but I seriously doubt UW was pulling a lot of students solely for the Women's Studies program.

From the last graduation I went to, I believe that there are a considerable number of minors in the Women’s Studies program. Could be the difference between some students attending or not. Or just the fact of the legislature’s decision might turn them off. I don’t know about you, but I saw a lot of pink hats in my Facebook feed a few years ago. Whether it has a significant impact or not, I see no way it can help enrollment.

I expect those working at UW and those with certain political ideologies will be raising hell about this. At the end of the day it'll primarily be a big taboo to a vocal minority on both sides with no significant impacts to UW.

[OrediggerPoke]

From the last graduation I went to, I believe that there are a considerable number of minors in the Women’s Studies program. Could be the difference between some students attending or not. Or just the fact of the legislature’s decision might turn them off. I don’t know about you, but I saw a lot of pink hats in my Facebook feed a few years ago. Whether it has a significant impact or not, I see no way it can help enrollment.

I expect those working at UW and those with certain political ideologies will be raising hell about this. At the end of the day it'll primarily be a big taboo to a vocal minority on both sides with no significant impacts to UW.

Why do you need a certain ‘political ideology’ to be against the legislature banning certain college curriculum and suppressing speech and thought?

I’ve never been accused of being a ‘liberal’ by those that know me. I am vehemently opposed to this line of legislation.

I forecast lots of qualified folks in higher education choosing to avoid Wyoming based on these types of legislative decisions.

[ragtimejoe1]

I expect those working at UW and those with certain political ideologies will be raising hell about this. At the end of the day it'll primarily be a big taboo to a vocal minority on both sides with no significant impacts to UW.

Why do you need a certain ‘political ideology’ to be against the legislature banning certain college curriculum and suppressing speech and thought?

I’ve never been accused of being a ‘liberal’ by those that know me. I am vehemently opposed to this line of legislation.

Most that are extremely opposed to this are closely affiliated with UW or a certain political ideology. I'm sure there are exceptions.

Either way, not a big deal to UW when the dust settles.

[LawPoke]

I expect those working at UW and those with certain political ideologies will be raising hell about this. At the end of the day it'll primarily be a big taboo to a vocal minority on both sides with no significant impacts to UW.

Why do you need a certain ‘political ideology’ to be against the legislature banning certain college curriculum and suppressing speech and thought?

I’ve never been accused of being a ‘liberal’ by those that know me. I am vehemently opposed to this line of legislation.

I forecast lots of qualified folks in higher education choosing to avoid Wyoming based on these types of legislative decisions.

It is an unforced error that, respectfully, will cost the University. I thought that we GOP-types were for free speech, free thought and free markets (including the marketplace of ideas). If Women's Studies and other boogieman DEI courses are as useless and harmful as the far right says they are, no one will take them and they will be cut due to non-enrollment.

[ragtimejoe1]

I'd say the optics of more than coincidental nepotism leading to, well, you know, poses much greater risk to UW's image if mainstream ever picked up on it.

[LawPoke]

I'd say the optics of more than coincidental nepotism leading to, well, you know, poses much greater risk to UW's image if mainstream ever picked up on it.

I can agree with this wholeheartedly.

[Expat_Poke]

Why do you need a certain ‘political ideology’ to be against the legislature banning certain college curriculum and suppressing speech and thought?

I’ve never been accused of being a ‘liberal’ by those that know me. I am vehemently opposed to this line of legislation.

I forecast lots of qualified folks in higher education choosing to avoid Wyoming based on these types of legislative decisions.

It is an unforced error that, respectfully, will cost the University. I thought that we GOP-types were for free speech, free thought and free markets (including the marketplace of ideas). If Women's Studies and other boogieman DEI courses are as useless and harmful as the far right says they are, no one will take them and they will be cut due to non-enrollment.

Nah the University has a work around, require diversity credits in order to graduate. I chose North American Indian Studies to fulfill mine because they have distinct long standing cultures and history worth studying. Otherwise students have to pick one sort of these studies in order to graduate. Get rid of that requirement and those classes would shrink instantly.

I want to maintain independence between the University and the Government legislatures. However Congress and the USDE have blown that out of the water. I think a better option would be specifically protecting the University from federal policies and restore true academic freedom to the University.

As for the University, there are a host of far-left ideas that were being pushed by professors during my time there. You had a religious professor who was pushing Zeitgeist garbage that is frankly embarrassing at this level. I also knew of professors pushing work ethic, nuclear family, and capitalism as white privilege and racist. A lot of students don't think for themselves (this was the hardest task dealing with freshman engineering students). As a TA I got the sense a big chunk of the class were just blindly listening so I started talking obvious complete BS. A few students started to give me weird looks the rest were der dee der. I then stopped and called on one of the students who was actually thinking and asked him what his thoughts were. Then we had a lesson about thinking through what is being presented and not being mindless followers.

So here I am, I don't like this bill, but also don't kid yourself there is some indoctrination going on mostly targeting family structure, pushing for inequality under the law, and targeting capitalism. I don't think this legislation is the way to address the indoctrination though.

[bullbugle307]

You guys crack me up. Half of you that are so sure indoctrination is happening have surely not stepped foot in a classroom at UW. Is there goofy poop going on in some classes and with some professors? Duh…it’s been that way for about forever. Did you watch Oppenheimer? Last time I checked there wasn’t a bunch openly communist professors at UW like there were back in the 30s all across the country. Btw, I’m an R, not that that makes any difference. I got a science degree, so no, there wasn’t a lot of indoctrination going on there. My wife, who got her MBA, got constantly pushed towards working in Oil and Gas, however, even though she didn’t want to do that. You can sure bet the legislature won’t concern themselves with that though. Just like they wouldn’t care if the University was indoctrinating students with the ideology of their choice. As a whole, the idea that UW is indoctrinating students one way or the other is just dumb. It needs no help from the legislature, and as I’ve said I don’t trust this legislature whatsoever. They want to regulate delta 8 for crying out loud, talk about the nanny state.


The only I see that’s changed in this whole University scenario is a bunch of chicken little politicians that are so scared of everything they think they need to step in, act like the big government they claim to hate, and regulate what can and can’t be taught. And a bunch of people that follow their drum beat, much like a certain mascot from the South

[OrediggerPoke]

The Governor said it best today when responding to Chuck Gray’s proposed rules that would require investors in Wyoming to sign a yearly document to consent to the investment in companies with any form of ESG policies:

“The solution to government overreach is not more government.”

[Itsux2beaewe]

The Governor said it best today when responding to Chuck Gray’s proposed rules that would require investors in Wyoming to sign a yearly document to consent to the investment in companies with any form of ESG policies:

“The solution to government overreach is not more government.”

Context matters.

“The crux of Gray’s argument and his rules is that investment professionals who promote investing with ESG guidelines without obtaining their clients’ approval or notice are engaging in deceitful and possibly fraudulent conduct. “ https://cowboystatedaily.com/2024/02/27 ... esg-rules/

I’m not certain Grays motives are wrong. Enron…….anyone…….

[Itsux2beaewe]

You guys crack me up. Half of you that are so sure indoctrination is happening have surely not stepped foot in a classroom at UW. Is there goofy poop going on in some classes and with some professors? Duh…it’s been that way for about forever. Did you watch Oppenheimer? Last time I checked there wasn’t a bunch openly communist professors at UW like there were back in the 30s all across the country. Btw, I’m an R, not that that makes any difference. I got a science degree, so no, there wasn’t a lot of indoctrination going on there. My wife, who got her MBA, got constantly pushed towards working in Oil and Gas, however, even though she didn’t want to do that. You can sure bet the legislature won’t concern themselves with that though. Just like they wouldn’t care if the University was indoctrinating students with the ideology of their choice. As a whole, the idea that UW is indoctrinating students one way or the other is just dumb. It needs no help from the legislature, and as I’ve said I don’t trust this legislature whatsoever. They want to regulate delta 8 for crying out loud, talk about the nanny state.


The only I see that’s changed in this whole University scenario is a bunch of chicken little politicians that are so scared of everything they think they need to step in, act like the big government they claim to hate, and regulate what can and can’t be taught. And a bunch of people that follow their drum beat, much like a certain mascot from the South

I’m guessing ExpatPoke, right above yours stepped foot on UWs campus recently. Actually was in classrooms. His take is different than yours.

[OrediggerPoke]

The Governor said it best today when responding to Chuck Gray’s proposed rules that would require investors in Wyoming to sign a yearly document to consent to the investment in companies with any form of ESG policies:

“The solution to government overreach is not more government.”

Context matters.

“The crux of Gray’s argument and his rules is that investment professionals who promote investing with ESG guidelines without obtaining their clients’ approval or notice are engaging in deceitful and possibly fraudulent conduct. “ https://cowboystatedaily.com/2024/02/27 ... esg-rules/

I’m not certain Grays motives are wrong. Enron…….anyone…….

I see…do you believe we need the government to step in to protect people from their own decisions?

And what the hell do Gray’s proposed rules (now vetoed) have to do with Enron? As someone that knows a lot about Enron and the scandal, that was pure fraud of cooking the books. It was illegal conduct then and the executives went to prison. BTW - did you know that Enron Oil & Gas Company is currently the largest oil producer in Wyoming?