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307bball
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:43 am
307bball wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:28 am For you guys that are running the scenarios...What are the odds that in 2025 or 2027 Wyoming is in a conference with the Dakota schools, the Montana schools, and Idaho?

Are we sure that can't happen?
I already posted my projected 2027 MWC - I personally believe it is highly likely that Wyoming is left behind in a watered down MWC. We aren't going anywhere but some of our conference mates probably are. I believe Utah Tech, North Dakota State and South Dakota State are the most likely FCS to move to the MWC given their ambitions. I believe New Mexico State is the most likely FBS team to move to the MWC because I don't see New Mexico going anywhere either.

BTW - it is no secret that San Diego State, Boise State, Hawaii, UNLV, Colorado State, Fresno State, etc...are working the phones to try and move on.
https://amp.fresnobee.com/sports/colleg ... 67968.html
Seems about right...

If you look at the BCS and CFP era as an audition for schools to show that they belonged....some are making the cut (Utah, TCU, BYU) and some are sort of on the fringes (CSU, SDSU, Fresno). It's not all about being competitive either...if it were only about football competitiveness, Boise St would be in a P5 conference right now. They were dominant over that stretch. It's about market size, cultural fit, and academic reputation as well. Wyoming is not high in any of those categories. There was never any chance the market size was going to change...I don't think the west coast schools view Wyoming as a "cultural fit" ... maybe we would fit better in with the mountain and midwest schools. What about academic reputation? My sense is that UW is viewed as a good value for students but it's not a prized research institution. That leaves the ability to be competitive on the gridiron as the only real metric Wyoming ever had that it could possibly use to increase it's attractiveness to a larger conference. How did that go?...not well.
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The P5 is now the P2. Technically others will play at the same level but really aren't. Similar to current G5/P5 structure.

WA and OR are head scratchers. They seem like they would be in the P2 but they may not make it. ND, Miami, FL State, and Clemson are likely next up. Yes, some teams are in the P2 by original affiliation and don't belong. However, it doesn't look like they'll be kicked out.

The strongest conferences possible will form in the second level. Semi-Power 3 or 2 from remaining ACC, BIG12, PAC12. Some MWC and aac teams will join that mix.

I think the above speculations are correct about potentially the Dakotas, Montana schools, nmsu, utep, etc.

Honestly, I think MWC needs to think creatively away from football. Stay associated in non football sports with the MWC schools leaving in return for bball scheduling agreements with P12 and/or Big12. Try to build a bball conference.

For WYO, it may be time to investigate dropping football if/ when we're relegated to 3rd tier. We needed Bohl to be more successful. At the point of effectively playing fcs, is it worth it? I'm not sure.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:03 am.

For WYO, it may be time to investigate dropping football if/ when we're relegated to 3rd tier. We needed Bohl to be more successful. At the point of effectively playing fcs, is it worth it? I'm not sure.
That is not an option. Football is the only reason we can fund or sponsor other sports to their current levels. So many donor dollars are tied to football. We’ve already been relegated to a lower tier in football for decades based on media revenues alone, just none of us were willing to admit it. When it all shakes out, we will be in an appropriate conference, playing an appropriate level of football and hopefully free from the crazy NIL arms races of the higher tiers. There will be good players at Wyoming that will prove their talent and unfortunately leave for money rich pastures, but in the end Saturdays at the WAR will be the same.
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:52 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:03 am.

For WYO, it may be time to investigate dropping football if/ when we're relegated to 3rd tier. We needed Bohl to be more successful. At the point of effectively playing fcs, is it worth it? I'm not sure.
That is not an option. Football is the only reason we can fund or sponsor other sports to their current levels. So many donor dollars are tied to football. We’ve already been relegated to a lower tier in football for decades based on media revenues alone, just none of us were willing to admit it. When it all shakes out, we will be in an appropriate conference, playing an appropriate level of football and hopefully free from the crazy NIL arms races of the higher tiers. There will be good players at Wyoming that will prove their talent and unfortunately leave for money rich pastures, but in the end Saturdays at the WAR will be the same.
They will be the same from the standpoint of what we have seen in the last 20 years, hover around .500....but the stuff that happened in the '80s and '90s is never coming back. For those of us that would like to see a Wyoming football program that is competitively equivalent to the highs of the last century ... well...that door is shut.
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307bball wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:59 pm They will be the same from the standpoint of what we have seen in the last 20 years, hover around .500....but the stuff that happened in the '80s and '90s is never coming back. For those of us that would like to see a Wyoming football program that is competitively equivalent to the highs of the last century ... well...that door is shut.
ONLY because we had complete jackasses running the asylum in Laramie.
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307bball
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Wyokie wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:08 pm
307bball wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:59 pm They will be the same from the standpoint of what we have seen in the last 20 years, hover around .500....but the stuff that happened in the '80s and '90s is never coming back. For those of us that would like to see a Wyoming football program that is competitively equivalent to the highs of the last century ... well...that door is shut.
ONLY because we had complete jackasses running the asylum in Laramie.
I mean...that certainly didn't help...but I hesitate to completely put it at their feet. With all the ways in which money and TV markets began to drive things, It may have taken singularly gifted administrators and coaches to get us to be a consistent top-40ish program. People with that kind of ability and vision are not growing on trees and they tend to not stay long at places that can't pay them a ton of money. My guess is even if the BOT had cleaned house a few more times since '98 we would have just gotten a different set of Jackasses.
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:52 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:03 am.

For WYO, it may be time to investigate dropping football if/ when we're relegated to 3rd tier. We needed Bohl to be more successful. At the point of effectively playing fcs, is it worth it? I'm not sure.
That is not an option. Football is the only reason we can fund or sponsor other sports to their current levels. So many donor dollars are tied to football. We’ve already been relegated to a lower tier in football for decades based on media revenues alone, just none of us were willing to admit it. When it all shakes out, we will be in an appropriate conference, playing an appropriate level of football and hopefully free from the crazy NIL arms races of the higher tiers. There will be good players at Wyoming that will prove their talent and unfortunately leave for money rich pastures, but in the end Saturdays at the WAR will be the same.
If and HUGE if the MWC is decimated and we're left behind, I'm not so sure the economic models will look the same in terms of fan or booster level of interest.

You could definitely be right. I hope we don't get to test the theory.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:12 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:52 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:03 am.

For WYO, it may be time to investigate dropping football if/ when we're relegated to 3rd tier. We needed Bohl to be more successful. At the point of effectively playing fcs, is it worth it? I'm not sure.
That is not an option. Football is the only reason we can fund or sponsor other sports to their current levels. So many donor dollars are tied to football. We’ve already been relegated to a lower tier in football for decades based on media revenues alone, just none of us were willing to admit it. When it all shakes out, we will be in an appropriate conference, playing an appropriate level of football and hopefully free from the crazy NIL arms races of the higher tiers. There will be good players at Wyoming that will prove their talent and unfortunately leave for money rich pastures, but in the end Saturdays at the WAR will be the same.
If and HUGE if the MWC is decimated and we're left behind, I'm not so sure the economic models will look the same in terms of fan or booster level of interest.

You could definitely be right. I hope we don't get to test the theory.
I don't think UW needs to worry right now. I think we'll end up in a pretty good spot.

The B1G and the SEC are going to be the new P2. They'll take their time and bring in every big money TV market they can. Probably Notre Dame, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington go to the B1G. Clemson, Florida St, Miami, and North Carolina, to the SEC. There are a few teams like Cal, Duke, OKState, or Virginia who are alternates, but everyone else will get left out. Remember, it's about TV revenue. And I suspect they'll make their own league and have a playoff. They may play other schools, but maybe not. It'll be up to them to decide. They'll get so much money from ESPN and/or Fox that they won't care about who's left out. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try to kick a few schools out. Vanderbilt?

The Big 12 and ACC will divide up the rest of those they want. Maybe the ACC gets UCF, UConn, Memphis, or South Florida. The Big 12 will take Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado. The Arizona schools have big budgets, and Utah and Colorado represent rivalries and decent TV markets. So, the PAC will be left with Oregon St and Washington State. The Big 12 won't want them because their athletics budgets are small, and they're the second team in both markets. The PAC is dead.

If you take away the media money WSU and Oregon State get from the current media deal that expires soon, they are below average MWC budget teams. In line with San Jose St and Fresno. I bet we add them to the MWC. In a worst case scenario, the PAC tries to add almost everyone from the MWC, and Wyoming's budget keep us in the conversation. We have better revenue than Boise, UNM, SJSU, Fresno, USU, and Nevada. And we are as valuable to the Denver TV market as CSU.

In the long run the B1G and SEC get a ton of money and everyone else has to figure it out. I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being 4 second-tier conferences. The ACC, the Big 12, the MWC with a couple of PAC leftovers, and some version of the AAC. And maybe a playoff within those conferences. The ACC and Big 12 will see their TV money dry up, and we may even close the gap some. This could be a good thing for Wyoming.
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flyfishwyo wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:12 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:12 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:52 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:03 am.

For WYO, it may be time to investigate dropping football if/ when we're relegated to 3rd tier. We needed Bohl to be more successful. At the point of effectively playing fcs, is it worth it? I'm not sure.
That is not an option. Football is the only reason we can fund or sponsor other sports to their current levels. So many donor dollars are tied to football. We’ve already been relegated to a lower tier in football for decades based on media revenues alone, just none of us were willing to admit it. When it all shakes out, we will be in an appropriate conference, playing an appropriate level of football and hopefully free from the crazy NIL arms races of the higher tiers. There will be good players at Wyoming that will prove their talent and unfortunately leave for money rich pastures, but in the end Saturdays at the WAR will be the same.
If and HUGE if the MWC is decimated and we're left behind, I'm not so sure the economic models will look the same in terms of fan or booster level of interest.

You could definitely be right. I hope we don't get to test the theory.
I don't think UW needs to worry right now. I think we'll end up in a pretty good spot.

The B1G and the SEC are going to be the new P2. They'll take their time and bring in every big money TV market they can. Probably Notre Dame, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington go to the B1G. Clemson, Florida St, Miami, and North Carolina, to the SEC. There are a few teams like Cal, Duke, OKState, or Virginia who are alternates, but everyone else will get left out. Remember, it's about TV revenue. And I suspect they'll make their own league and have a playoff. They may play other schools, but maybe not. It'll be up to them to decide. They'll get so much money from ESPN and/or Fox that they won't care about who's left out. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try to kick a few schools out. Vanderbilt?

The Big 12 and ACC will divide up the rest of those they want. Maybe the ACC gets UCF, UConn, Memphis, or South Florida. The Big 12 will take Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado. The Arizona schools have big budgets, and Utah and Colorado represent rivalries and decent TV markets. So, the PAC will be left with Oregon St and Washington State. The Big 12 won't want them because their athletics budgets are small, and they're the second team in both markets. The PAC is dead.

If you take away the media money WSU and Oregon State get from the current media deal that expires soon, they are below average MWC budget teams. In line with San Jose St and Fresno. I bet we add them to the MWC. In a worst case scenario, the PAC tries to add almost everyone from the MWC, and Wyoming's budget keep us in the conversation. We have better revenue than Boise, UNM, SJSU, Fresno, USU, and Nevada. And we are as valuable to the Denver TV market as CSU.

In the long run the B1G and SEC get a ton of money and everyone else has to figure it out. I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being 4 second-tier conferences. The ACC, the Big 12, the MWC with a couple of PAC leftovers, and some version of the AAC. And maybe a playoff within those conferences. The ACC and Big 12 will see their TV money dry up, and we may even close the gap some. This could be a good thing for Wyoming.
This here is a very similar scenario I've been mulling around in my head. I strongly believe however that there will be games played between all divisions still and yes the small guys will still have an opportunity to whip them now and again. Next two months will be very interesting.
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aranderson wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:06 pm
flyfishwyo wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:12 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:12 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:52 pm
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:03 am.

For WYO, it may be time to investigate dropping football if/ when we're relegated to 3rd tier. We needed Bohl to be more successful. At the point of effectively playing fcs, is it worth it? I'm not sure.
That is not an option. Football is the only reason we can fund or sponsor other sports to their current levels. So many donor dollars are tied to football. We’ve already been relegated to a lower tier in football for decades based on media revenues alone, just none of us were willing to admit it. When it all shakes out, we will be in an appropriate conference, playing an appropriate level of football and hopefully free from the crazy NIL arms races of the higher tiers. There will be good players at Wyoming that will prove their talent and unfortunately leave for money rich pastures, but in the end Saturdays at the WAR will be the same.
If and HUGE if the MWC is decimated and we're left behind, I'm not so sure the economic models will look the same in terms of fan or booster level of interest.

You could definitely be right. I hope we don't get to test the theory.
I don't think UW needs to worry right now. I think we'll end up in a pretty good spot.

The B1G and the SEC are going to be the new P2. They'll take their time and bring in every big money TV market they can. Probably Notre Dame, Stanford, Oregon, and Washington go to the B1G. Clemson, Florida St, Miami, and North Carolina, to the SEC. There are a few teams like Cal, Duke, OKState, or Virginia who are alternates, but everyone else will get left out. Remember, it's about TV revenue. And I suspect they'll make their own league and have a playoff. They may play other schools, but maybe not. It'll be up to them to decide. They'll get so much money from ESPN and/or Fox that they won't care about who's left out. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't try to kick a few schools out. Vanderbilt?

The Big 12 and ACC will divide up the rest of those they want. Maybe the ACC gets UCF, UConn, Memphis, or South Florida. The Big 12 will take Arizona, ASU, Utah, and Colorado. The Arizona schools have big budgets, and Utah and Colorado represent rivalries and decent TV markets. So, the PAC will be left with Oregon St and Washington State. The Big 12 won't want them because their athletics budgets are small, and they're the second team in both markets. The PAC is dead.

If you take away the media money WSU and Oregon State get from the current media deal that expires soon, they are below average MWC budget teams. In line with San Jose St and Fresno. I bet we add them to the MWC. In a worst case scenario, the PAC tries to add almost everyone from the MWC, and Wyoming's budget keep us in the conversation. We have better revenue than Boise, UNM, SJSU, Fresno, USU, and Nevada. And we are as valuable to the Denver TV market as CSU.

In the long run the B1G and SEC get a ton of money and everyone else has to figure it out. I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being 4 second-tier conferences. The ACC, the Big 12, the MWC with a couple of PAC leftovers, and some version of the AAC. And maybe a playoff within those conferences. The ACC and Big 12 will see their TV money dry up, and we may even close the gap some. This could be a good thing for Wyoming.
This here is a very similar scenario I've been mulling around in my head. I strongly believe however that there will be games played between all divisions still and yes the small guys will still have an opportunity to whip them now and again. Next two months will be very interesting.
I don't know how realistic it will be to "whip" the major programs anymore...Time will tell, but I think the ability of talent to move where it wants to go will spell the end of competitiveness between tiers. That issue is not really a part of conference realignment... but it's more about the relaxation of transfer rules. Probably right to allow players to go where ever they want to go...but it hurts small programs who invest in players that nobody wants and then when they prove themselves, they end up playing their junior and senior seasons at a major program.
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I wouldn’t think the current PAC schools would be really comfortable in their position knowing that Fresno and co are on their way in.

I see a scenario where the PAC accepts some MW teams but it ultimately falls apart because they keep losing schools even after other schools commit.
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laxwyo wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:49 am I wouldn’t think the current PAC schools would be really comfortable in their position knowing that Fresno and co are on their way in.

I see a scenario where the PAC accepts some MW teams but it ultimately falls apart because they keep losing schools even after other schools commit.
I'm betting the dominoes fall well in advance of 1 or 2 MWC teams leaving. WA, OR, and possibly Stanford (if ND joins and advocates) should be on their way to B1G. If not, look for WA and OR to petition the SEC. The real wildcard is what will the politicians do? Will they try to tie OSU and WSU to OR and WA? Will the California group try to tie Cal to something?

I'm betting AZ schools, Utah, and CO are announced as Big 12 schools within the next 2-3 weeks.

The PAC "left outs" could be OSU, WSU, Cal, and possible Stanford. More than enough of a core to poach the MWC/Gonzaga/St. Mary's to build a dominant basketball/olympic sports league with decent football.

Even if only OSU and WSU remain, I don't think our conference mates are loyal enough to hold and force them to join the MWC. I think our conference mates jump ship to shed programs like sjsu, UW, nv, unm, and possibly usu or AF to get out of the front range entirely.

I just don't see this being good for WYO unless somehow the Pac holds and only poaches a couple MWC teams.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:40 pm
laxwyo wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:49 am I wouldn’t think the current PAC schools would be really comfortable in their position knowing that Fresno and co are on their way in.

I see a scenario where the PAC accepts some MW teams but it ultimately falls apart because they keep losing schools even after other schools commit.
I'm betting the dominoes fall well in advance of 1 or 2 MWC teams leaving. WA, OR, and possibly Stanford (if ND joins and advocates) should be on their way to B1G. If not, look for WA and OR to petition the SEC. The real wildcard is what will the politicians do? Will they try to tie OSU and WSU to OR and WA? Will the California group try to tie Cal to something?

I'm betting AZ schools, Utah, and CO are announced as Big 12 schools within the next 2-3 weeks.

The PAC "left outs" could be OSU, WSU, Cal, and possible Stanford. More than enough of a core to poach the MWC/Gonzaga/St. Mary's to build a dominant basketball/olympic sports league with decent football.

Even if only OSU and WSU remain, I don't think our conference mates are loyal enough to hold and force them to join the MWC. I think our conference mates jump ship to shed programs like sjsu, UW, nv, unm, and possibly usu or AF to get out of the front range entirely.

I just don't see this being good for WYO unless somehow the Pac holds and only poaches a couple MWC teams.
There's no reason for any individual MWC team to leave for the PAC if there's only 4 teams left. They have to renegotiate their TV deal for 2024 and no MWC teams add enough for the media rights to have any value.

Besides, there's only going to be 2 teams left in the PAC. Cal and Stanford will either be in the B1G or Big 12. Cal's athletic revenue exceeds $90M, and Stanford's is bigger.

UW is in good shape. Our budget is $40M+, we have the best donor base in the MWC, and are as important to the Denver media market as CSU. SJSU, UNM, Fresno, USU, Nevada, and Hawaii should worry about being left behind. Small budgets and no fan base.
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flyfishwyo wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:13 am
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:40 pm
laxwyo wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:49 am I wouldn’t think the current PAC schools would be really comfortable in their position knowing that Fresno and co are on their way in.

I see a scenario where the PAC accepts some MW teams but it ultimately falls apart because they keep losing schools even after other schools commit.
I'm betting the dominoes fall well in advance of 1 or 2 MWC teams leaving. WA, OR, and possibly Stanford (if ND joins and advocates) should be on their way to B1G. If not, look for WA and OR to petition the SEC. The real wildcard is what will the politicians do? Will they try to tie OSU and WSU to OR and WA? Will the California group try to tie Cal to something?

I'm betting AZ schools, Utah, and CO are announced as Big 12 schools within the next 2-3 weeks.

The PAC "left outs" could be OSU, WSU, Cal, and possible Stanford. More than enough of a core to poach the MWC/Gonzaga/St. Mary's to build a dominant basketball/olympic sports league with decent football.

Even if only OSU and WSU remain, I don't think our conference mates are loyal enough to hold and force them to join the MWC. I think our conference mates jump ship to shed programs like sjsu, UW, nv, unm, and possibly usu or AF to get out of the front range entirely.

I just don't see this being good for WYO unless somehow the Pac holds and only poaches a couple MWC teams.
There's no reason for any individual MWC team to leave for the PAC if there's only 4 teams left. They have to renegotiate their TV deal for 2024 and no MWC teams add enough for the media rights to have any value.

Besides, there's only going to be 2 teams left in the PAC. Cal and Stanford will either be in the B1G or Big 12. Cal's athletic revenue exceeds $90M, and Stanford's is bigger.

UW is in good shape. Our budget is $40M+, we have the best donor base in the MWC, and are as important to the Denver media market as CSU. SJSU, UNM, Fresno, USU, Nevada, and Hawaii should worry about being left behind. Small budgets and no fan base.
I'm tending to agree to a point with flyfishwyo, I however don't believe our budget scares anyone, nor do I believe our fan base does. I do believe our donors will have a say in this if it's looking like we have seat at the bigger boys table. We will never have a seat at the VIP, but have a better chance than many I believe at getting to the preferred table than being left behind. I do believe the MWC and what remains of the PAC make one conference and take on several that make sense and try to form a second tier conference on the level with the BIG 12 and ACC. Thus leaving the Sun Belt, C-USA and MAC as the remaining bottom three conferences.
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aranderson wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:42 pm
flyfishwyo wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:13 am
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:40 pm
laxwyo wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:49 am I wouldn’t think the current PAC schools would be really comfortable in their position knowing that Fresno and co are on their way in.

I see a scenario where the PAC accepts some MW teams but it ultimately falls apart because they keep losing schools even after other schools commit.
I'm betting the dominoes fall well in advance of 1 or 2 MWC teams leaving. WA, OR, and possibly Stanford (if ND joins and advocates) should be on their way to B1G. If not, look for WA and OR to petition the SEC. The real wildcard is what will the politicians do? Will they try to tie OSU and WSU to OR and WA? Will the California group try to tie Cal to something?

I'm betting AZ schools, Utah, and CO are announced as Big 12 schools within the next 2-3 weeks.

The PAC "left outs" could be OSU, WSU, Cal, and possible Stanford. More than enough of a core to poach the MWC/Gonzaga/St. Mary's to build a dominant basketball/olympic sports league with decent football.

Even if only OSU and WSU remain, I don't think our conference mates are loyal enough to hold and force them to join the MWC. I think our conference mates jump ship to shed programs like sjsu, UW, nv, unm, and possibly usu or AF to get out of the front range entirely.

I just don't see this being good for WYO unless somehow the Pac holds and only poaches a couple MWC teams.
There's no reason for any individual MWC team to leave for the PAC if there's only 4 teams left. They have to renegotiate their TV deal for 2024 and no MWC teams add enough for the media rights to have any value.

Besides, there's only going to be 2 teams left in the PAC. Cal and Stanford will either be in the B1G or Big 12. Cal's athletic revenue exceeds $90M, and Stanford's is bigger.

UW is in good shape. Our budget is $40M+, we have the best donor base in the MWC, and are as important to the Denver media market as CSU. SJSU, UNM, Fresno, USU, Nevada, and Hawaii should worry about being left behind. Small budgets and no fan base.
I'm tending to agree to a point with flyfishwyo, I however don't believe our budget scares anyone, nor do I believe our fan base does. I do believe our donors will have a say in this if it's looking like we have seat at the bigger boys table. We will never have a seat at the VIP, but have a better chance than many I believe at getting to the preferred table than being left behind. I do believe the MWC and what remains of the PAC make one conference and take on several that make sense and try to form a second tier conference on the level with the BIG 12 and ACC. Thus leaving the Sun Belt, C-USA and MAC as the remaining bottom three conferences.
This sounds about right. The fact that UW has a decent budget, smallish but solid fan base, donors that hopefully will step up SHOULD allow us to fall into whatever conference rises out of the ashes of this Pac 10 (and MW) meltdown. My main concern here would be "small time" thinking by the UW admin/Burman and, especially the Board of Trustees/Legislature. No amount of wishful thinking will ever take things back to the way they were in the 1950's-60's. Times have definitely changed.......
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wwplayer wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 5:16 pm
aranderson wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:42 pm
flyfishwyo wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:13 am
ragtimejoe1 wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:40 pm
laxwyo wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 8:49 am I wouldn’t think the current PAC schools would be really comfortable in their position knowing that Fresno and co are on their way in.

I see a scenario where the PAC accepts some MW teams but it ultimately falls apart because they keep losing schools even after other schools commit.
I'm betting the dominoes fall well in advance of 1 or 2 MWC teams leaving. WA, OR, and possibly Stanford (if ND joins and advocates) should be on their way to B1G. If not, look for WA and OR to petition the SEC. The real wildcard is what will the politicians do? Will they try to tie OSU and WSU to OR and WA? Will the California group try to tie Cal to something?

I'm betting AZ schools, Utah, and CO are announced as Big 12 schools within the next 2-3 weeks.

The PAC "left outs" could be OSU, WSU, Cal, and possible Stanford. More than enough of a core to poach the MWC/Gonzaga/St. Mary's to build a dominant basketball/olympic sports league with decent football.

Even if only OSU and WSU remain, I don't think our conference mates are loyal enough to hold and force them to join the MWC. I think our conference mates jump ship to shed programs like sjsu, UW, nv, unm, and possibly usu or AF to get out of the front range entirely.

I just don't see this being good for WYO unless somehow the Pac holds and only poaches a couple MWC teams.
There's no reason for any individual MWC team to leave for the PAC if there's only 4 teams left. They have to renegotiate their TV deal for 2024 and no MWC teams add enough for the media rights to have any value.

Besides, there's only going to be 2 teams left in the PAC. Cal and Stanford will either be in the B1G or Big 12. Cal's athletic revenue exceeds $90M, and Stanford's is bigger.

UW is in good shape. Our budget is $40M+, we have the best donor base in the MWC, and are as important to the Denver media market as CSU. SJSU, UNM, Fresno, USU, Nevada, and Hawaii should worry about being left behind. Small budgets and no fan base.
I'm tending to agree to a point with flyfishwyo, I however don't believe our budget scares anyone, nor do I believe our fan base does. I do believe our donors will have a say in this if it's looking like we have seat at the bigger boys table. We will never have a seat at the VIP, but have a better chance than many I believe at getting to the preferred table than being left behind. I do believe the MWC and what remains of the PAC make one conference and take on several that make sense and try to form a second tier conference on the level with the BIG 12 and ACC. Thus leaving the Sun Belt, C-USA and MAC as the remaining bottom three conferences.
This sounds about right. The fact that UW has a decent budget, smallish but solid fan base, donors that hopefully will step up SHOULD allow us to fall into whatever conference rises out of the ashes of this Pac 10 (and MW) meltdown. My main concern here would be "small time" thinking by the UW admin/Burman and, especially the Board of Trustees/Legislature. No amount of wishful thinking will ever take things back to the way they were in the 1950's-60's. Times have definitely changed.......
Burman and the support UW Athletics gets from admin/legislature are the reason we're in such a good position. Our facilities are nearly the best in the conference, and better than a lot of the Power 5 schools. We lead the MWC in annual private donations to Athletics. We're near the top in support from state government. UW Administration prioritizes Athletics. Second rate P5 schools (OSU and WSU) with way bigger enrollment don't invest as much as UW does. Frankly, it's pretty amazing what UW has accomplished given our resources. I think that's one of the reasons we'll close the gap with the P5 leftovers when their TV money dries up.
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WYO couldn't close the gap in a MUCH weaker MWC. I question our success if the conference strengthens.

No way to know how this plays out and I hate being the pessimist. However, I think you guys are overestimating WYO'S position and underestimating the position of our "byu-like" conference mates.
WYO1016 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:05 am WYO couldn't close the gap in a MUCH weaker MWC. I question our success if the conference strengthens.

No way to know how this plays out and I hate being the pessimist. However, I think you guys are overestimating WYO'S position and underestimating the position of our "byu-like" conference mates.
As much as I enjoy disagreeing with you Ragtime, I'm in your camp on this. Of all the ways this plays out...I'm predicting worse not better. Time will tell.
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I can't imagine it will be acceptable to the remaining Pac 12 schools to accept Fresno st., or San diego st., SJS, or csewe, for that matter. These MWC schools play to mostly empty stadiums, bring no fans with them, and often field horrible teams. Even Boise st, with a stadium that seats about 34k, is not going to look that attractive to schools with far bigger stadiums.

The television contracts will determine how this plays out. Let's say csewe somehow ends up in the Big 12. They better get some big tv money because if they are consistent basement dwellers in the Big 12, their fickle fan base won't even bother showing up - let alone bailing out late in the 3d quarter like they usually do.

Regional rivalries are what makes small market teams exciting. Without them, many of these teams will be better off dropping football. How many teams can sustain travel costs like USC and UCLA are about to face? Flying an entire team and staff back to Ohio is a little pricier than driving the bus up to Cal. Will a UCLA vs. Purdue matchup bring big tv ratings? I don't see it. None of this makes sense to me.
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