Matching Funds for West Side War and Pool

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LanderPoke
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could be a no-go.

https://www.si.com/.amp-wyoming/college ... ssion=true

I think it would help to email the people in this article. West side and press box needs a serious upgrade. A new pool is needed to stay a D-1 school.
OrediggerPoke
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LanderPoke wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:42 pm
could be a no-go.

https://www.si.com/.amp-wyoming/college ... ssion=true

I think it would help to email the people in this article. West side and press box needs a serious upgrade. A new pool is needed to stay a D-1 school.
The State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in! If I were in the legislature, I too would vote NO. Wyoming has a constitutional mandate to maintain a balanced budget...we have anything but that right now.

Raining day fund projected to be down around $1.3 billion after the end of the fiscal year. I think everyone can do the math as to how many years we will have that fund until it is drained given the state of the budget.
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J-Bone
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OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:42 pm
could be a no-go.

https://www.si.com/.amp-wyoming/college ... ssion=true

I think it would help to email the people in this article. West side and press box needs a serious upgrade. A new pool is needed to stay a D-1 school.
The State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in! If I were in the legislature, I too would vote NO. Wyoming has a constitutional mandate to maintain a balanced budget...we have anything but that right now.

Raining day fund projected to be down around $1.3 billion after the end of the fiscal year. I think everyone can do the math as to how many years we will have that fund until it is drained given the state of the budget.
This. 100% agreed.
HR_Poke
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They have claimed a deficit before, while still putting several hundred million into the rainy day fund.

Haven't looked at their budgets, but when the legislature says they are broke I take it with a grain of salt.
OrediggerPoke
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HR_Poke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:21 pm
They have claimed a deficit before, while still putting several hundred million into the rainy day fund.

Haven't looked at their budgets, but when the legislature says they are broke I take it with a grain of salt.
Well you would be wrong. The State has been operating at a deficit and dipping into the rainy day fund now going on the 4th consecutive year due largely to declining coal and natural gas revenues. The forecast for the next several years looks very bleak for the State. The State isn't broke because it saved wisely during the good times but unless some substantial changes are made or Wyoming energy markets reverse course, the rainy day fund will be completely depleted within a matter of years. Believe what you want, but these are all easily verifiable facts.
WyomingAg
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So if the pool isn't built, and the swimming is no longer allowed to stay as a sports program, and there's no money to add a new program, how long does the athletic department stay D1? Is there any grace period? Or is it potentially two or three years from now that all our sports programs no longer remain as D1?
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LanderPoke
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We've got billions in various funds. The state is trying to buy 1 million acres in land in the southern portion of the state and another 4 million acres of mineral rights. The estimated cost is supposed to be around a billion dollars. If the state were truly broke I don't think we'd be trying to do this. We can afford 50 million to keep Wyoming athletic D-1 and competitive.
OrediggerPoke
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LanderPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:56 pm
We've got billions in various funds. The state is trying to buy 1 million acres in land in the southern portion of the state and another 4 million acres of mineral rights. The estimated cost is supposed to be around a billion dollars. If the state were truly broke I don't think we'd be trying to do this. We can afford 50 million to keep Wyoming athletic D-1 and competitive.
The theory on the potential Occidental purchase of surface and mineral acres is that it will 'diversify' the state's investments out of purely stocks and bonds. I actually don't believe the prospective purchase will be a go once the numbers are run and the cash flow is calculated. Or if it is a go, I do believe it will be scaled back considerably. If you want to listen to a insightful take on the prospective purchase, listen to former Governor Freudenthal's interview on Wyoming Public Media.

There are a lot of things the State needs at this point in time. The constitution requires a balanced budget thankfully. Spending money at this point on football stands when the State is bleeding money is terrible governance. Thankfully the majority of legislators are likely to recognize this.

If the athletics department was realistic, they would have separated the swimming pool (which is perhaps more of a need) from the stands (which is a want). In addition, the athletics department is fully capable of private funding if it finds the stands to be a necessity.
HR_Poke
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OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:10 pm
HR_Poke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:21 pm
They have claimed a deficit before, while still putting several hundred million into the rainy day fund.

Haven't looked at their budgets, but when the legislature says they are broke I take it with a grain of salt.
Well you would be wrong. The State has been operating at a deficit and dipping into the rainy day fund now going on the 4th consecutive year due largely to declining coal and natural gas revenues. The forecast for the next several years looks very bleak for the State. The State isn't broke because it saved wisely during the good times but unless some substantial changes are made or Wyoming energy markets reverse course, the rainy day fund will be completely depleted within a matter of years. Believe what you want, but these are all easily verifiable facts.
Easily verifiable yet, you didnt do that and spout random BS like you always do. Maybe actually verify things before trying to be a douche....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wyofil ... ficit/amp/
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LanderPoke
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OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:19 pm
LanderPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:56 pm
We've got billions in various funds. The state is trying to buy 1 million acres in land in the southern portion of the state and another 4 million acres of mineral rights. The estimated cost is supposed to be around a billion dollars. If the state were truly broke I don't think we'd be trying to do this. We can afford 50 million to keep Wyoming athletic D-1 and competitive.
The theory on the potential Occidental purchase of surface and mineral acres is that it will 'diversify' the state's investments out of purely stocks and bonds. I actually don't believe the prospective purchase will be a go once the numbers are run and the cash flow is calculated. Or if it is a go, I do believe it will be scaled back considerably. If you want to listen to a insightful take on the prospective purchase, listen to former Governor Freudenthal's interview on Wyoming Public Media.

There are a lot of things the State needs at this point in time. The constitution requires a balanced budget thankfully. Spending money at this point on football stands when the State is bleeding money is terrible governance. Thankfully the majority of legislators are likely to recognize this.

If the athletics department was realistic, they would have separated the swimming pool (which is perhaps more of a need) from the stands (which is a want). In addition, the athletics department is fully capable of private funding if it finds the stands to be a necessity.
I'll check out Fredenthaul's interview. Thanks
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laxwyo
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HR_Poke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:25 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:10 pm
HR_Poke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:21 pm
They have claimed a deficit before, while still putting several hundred million into the rainy day fund.

Haven't looked at their budgets, but when the legislature says they are broke I take it with a grain of salt.
Well you would be wrong. The State has been operating at a deficit and dipping into the rainy day fund now going on the 4th consecutive year due largely to declining coal and natural gas revenues. The forecast for the next several years looks very bleak for the State. The State isn't broke because it saved wisely during the good times but unless some substantial changes are made or Wyoming energy markets reverse course, the rainy day fund will be completely depleted within a matter of years. Believe what you want, but these are all easily verifiable facts.
Easily verifiable yet, you didnt do that and spout random BS like you always do. Maybe actually verify things before trying to be a douche....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wyofil ... ficit/amp/
I doubt they’d be looking to buy all that land in the checkerboard if we were still running deficits. I think they plan to raid the savings account to buy All that land
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J-Bone wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:12 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:42 pm
could be a no-go.

https://www.si.com/.amp-wyoming/college ... ssion=true

I think it would help to email the people in this article. West side and press box needs a serious upgrade. A new pool is needed to stay a D-1 school.
The State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in! If I were in the legislature, I too would vote NO. Wyoming has a constitutional mandate to maintain a balanced budget...we have anything but that right now.

Raining day fund projected to be down around $1.3 billion after the end of the fiscal year. I think everyone can do the math as to how many years we will have that fund until it is drained given the state of the budget.
This. 100% agreed.
The state needs to be able to raise revenue. Coal is never going to generate the revenue it once did. We are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.
Lost Poke
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OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:19 pm
If the athletics department was realistic, they would have separated the swimming pool (which is perhaps more of a need) from the stands (which is a want). In addition, the athletics department is fully capable of private funding if it finds the stands to be a necessity.
For some reason I remember the strategy was always the other way around: They packaged the pool with the west stands because the stands would garner enough support to carry the pool forward.
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WestWYOPoke
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First off, I would love to know how not upgrading the pool would lead to UW having to drop swimming & diving. While I'm obviously not familiar with NCAA pool regulations, I have a hard time thinking that something has changed in the last few years that would suddenly make this pool non-compliant. Would have been nice if the original article had state WHY swim/dive would have to disappear if changes aren't made.

2nd, contrary to what the article says, UW is NOT at the minimum number of sports to be Division 1. The minimum is 14, UW is at 15. If, for some reason, they did have to drop swim/dive, they would only need to add 1 female sport to be in compliance. Could do that with women's apline ski, rifle, bowling, softball, or (if approved by NCAA as a governed sport) women's wrestling.

Having said all that, the swim/dive team absolutely deserves better facilities and I would support it 100%.
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OrediggerPoke
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Pokes fan 24-7 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pm
J-Bone wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:12 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:42 pm
could be a no-go.

https://www.si.com/.amp-wyoming/college ... ssion=true

I think it would help to email the people in this article. West side and press box needs a serious upgrade. A new pool is needed to stay a D-1 school.
The State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in! If I were in the legislature, I too would vote NO. Wyoming has a constitutional mandate to maintain a balanced budget...we have anything but that right now.

Raining day fund projected to be down around $1.3 billion after the end of the fiscal year. I think everyone can do the math as to how many years we will have that fund until it is drained given the state of the budget.
This. 100% agreed.
The state needs to be able to raise revenue. Coal is never going to generate the revenue it once did. We are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.
I agree with you but not sure a state income is required as opposed to other methods and taxing structures. It is an unfortunate reality that our funding structure is not sustainable with current revenues.
WyoBrandX
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Pokes fan 24-7 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pm
J-Bone wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:12 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:42 pm
could be a no-go.

https://www.si.com/.amp-wyoming/college ... ssion=true

I think it would help to email the people in this article. West side and press box needs a serious upgrade. A new pool is needed to stay a D-1 school.
The State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in! If I were in the legislature, I too would vote NO. Wyoming has a constitutional mandate to maintain a balanced budget...we have anything but that right now.

Raining day fund projected to be down around $1.3 billion after the end of the fiscal year. I think everyone can do the math as to how many years we will have that fund until it is drained given the state of the budget.
This. 100% agreed.
The state needs to be able to raise revenue. Coal is never going to generate the revenue it once did. We are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.
The state is spending more money than it has because it hasn't reeled in the spending. Regardless, if we still want the services we want, the income tax is a lousy way of doing it. Add another 4% on sales tax. Start focusing on use taxes - I80 costs us a f##k[#] of money to operate constantly (it does bring in a decent amount of revenue though). Wyoming is overly careful on doing alot of things compared to neighboring states - but income tax is the wrong way to go.

Use tax - use tax - use tax - that is the only way to go.
OrediggerPoke
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If people want to see the reality of the state budget, here is an excellent breakdown from an article published yesterday from a former republican legislator:

https://www.wyofile.com/then-and-now-th ... l-reality/

A few highlights -
1) General Spending in 2011-2012 was $2.863 billion and will be $2.972 billion in 2021-2022. This is a very small increase and would actually be considered quite a decrease when inflation of 18.3% is taken into account.
2) In 2011-2012, the State received $875 million in severance taxes on minerals and $754 million in mineral royalties (total $1.629 billion). In 2021-2022, forecasts (prior to coronavirus which could make things much worse) predict that we will receive $607 million in severance taxes and $382 million in mineral royalties ($0.982 billion). This is roughly a 40% decrease in mineral revenues over the past decade despite an inflation rate of 18.3%. This means, in the past decade, the State is receiving roughly 58.3% less mineral revenues when adjusted for inflation.

Let's hear that again - in the past decade alone, the state is now receiving 58.3% less revenues from mineral extraction!

PS: Don't worry HR_Poke, you are still entitled to bury your head in the sand and decry this 'fake news'. You wouldn't be alone.
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PokeNer
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WyoBrandX wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:09 pm
Pokes fan 24-7 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pm
J-Bone wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:12 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 am
LanderPoke wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:42 pm
could be a no-go.

https://www.si.com/.amp-wyoming/college ... ssion=true

I think it would help to email the people in this article. West side and press box needs a serious upgrade. A new pool is needed to stay a D-1 school.
The State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in! If I were in the legislature, I too would vote NO. Wyoming has a constitutional mandate to maintain a balanced budget...we have anything but that right now.

Raining day fund projected to be down around $1.3 billion after the end of the fiscal year. I think everyone can do the math as to how many years we will have that fund until it is drained given the state of the budget.
This. 100% agreed.
The state needs to be able to raise revenue. Coal is never going to generate the revenue it once did. We are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.
The state is spending more money than it has because it hasn't reeled in the spending. Regardless, if we still want the services we want, the income tax is a lousy way of doing it. Add another 4% on sales tax. Start focusing on use taxes - I80 costs us a f##k[#] of money to operate constantly (it does bring in a decent amount of revenue though). Wyoming is overly careful on doing alot of things compared to neighboring states - but income tax is the wrong way to go.

Use tax - use tax - use tax - that is the only way to go.
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
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WYO1016
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PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
This is a pretty uninformed post. Let's take a look at what you said here.

"We need to toll I-80" - We already do. All commercial vehicle travel through the state pays a road use tax to the state. All tolling is going to do is have the trucking companies reroute and lose us money.

"It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses" - Patently false. There is a reason this keeps getting shot down. It would cause a mass exodus of businesses that aren't headquartered in Wyoming. That means we lose jobs, which means we lose people, which means businesses lose money.

"The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion..." - While I do agree with you that the abortion bills are absolutely ridiculous, (we only have 2 abortion clinics in the state, and they're both in Jackson. All these laws do are drive women out of state to get the procedure done if they choose.) there's a lot of talk about increasing revenue and avoiding more cuts. Don't just pay attention to the negative news. Read the bills that are being heard. Look at the schedule to see what is being voted on.
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PokeNer
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WYO1016 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:52 pm
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
This is a pretty uninformed post. Let's take a look at what you said here.

"We need to toll I-80" - We already do. All commercial vehicle travel through the state pays a road use tax to the state. All tolling is going to do is have the trucking companies reroute and lose us money.

"It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses" - Patently false. There is a reason this keeps getting shot down. It would cause a mass exodus of businesses that aren't headquartered in Wyoming. That means we lose jobs, which means we lose people, which means businesses lose money.

"The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion..." - While I do agree with you that the abortion bills are absolutely ridiculous, (we only have 2 abortion clinics in the state, and they're both in Jackson. All these laws do are drive women out of state to get the procedure done if they choose.) there's a lot of talk about increasing revenue and avoiding more cuts. Don't just pay attention to the negative news. Read the bills that are being heard. Look at the schedule to see what is being voted on.
I've spent more time on the Wyoming Legislature website this week than I really care to admit. What do you propose to raise revenue, if the State refuses to curtail spending? Look through the list of bills being debated and tell me how many actually address the most important issue to the long-term health of Wyoming?

Most citizens and the entire legislative body won't touch property tax or income tax with a 10' poll (and I don't want these either), so it has to come from somewhere. We can't continue to prop up industries that will be substantially diminished in the next decade or two. Coal is dying, and will be nearly fully dead soon. Natural gas is severely depressed due to a massive surplus. Oil is hanging on, but there has been a drastic switch in the past 4-5 years; investors on Wall Street aren't looking to oil and gas. Agriculture provides a minuscule amount to Wyoming's GDP. We need to be progressive, and it's not happening except for maybe the Blockchain and Hemp movement.

I don't want to become Montana or Colorado, but we can't become WV or the South either. If you look at the other RM states they are booming due to a shift to recreation, tourism, technology, etc.

I'm well aware that a substantial amount of dollars that are spent at the pump are taxes, but how many semis do you think drive right through the State without stopping for fuel? The only way to collect revenue on those situations is with a toll. If I remember correctly we run a severe deficit on maintenance costs of I-80 vs federal dollars received (it's been a while since I looked at this to verify).

I don't have the article handy, but there was analysis on the corporate tax bill, and it didn't sound like it would drive corporations out of Wyoming in droves. Do you think the Oil companies are going to stop drilling and making 20-50% ROR on wells because of a relatively small tax? Is Walmart just going to shut the doors? We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, cause I'm in the belief that the out-of-state entities are here to make big dollars and a corporate tax won't drive them away. I'm not a corporate accountant, but wouldn't these tax dollars be a write-off against the home state income tax?

I'm against new taxes, but the math is pretty simple. If you expenditures exceed your revenue, you're gonna go broke.
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