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PokeNer
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WYO1016 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:52 pm
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
This is a pretty uninformed post. Let's take a look at what you said here.

"We need to toll I-80" - We already do. All commercial vehicle travel through the state pays a road use tax to the state. All tolling is going to do is have the trucking companies reroute and lose us money.

"It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses" - Patently false. There is a reason this keeps getting shot down. It would cause a mass exodus of businesses that aren't headquartered in Wyoming. That means we lose jobs, which means we lose people, which means businesses lose money.

"The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion..." - While I do agree with you that the abortion bills are absolutely ridiculous, (we only have 2 abortion clinics in the state, and they're both in Jackson. All these laws do are drive women out of state to get the procedure done if they choose.) there's a lot of talk about increasing revenue and avoiding more cuts. Don't just pay attention to the negative news. Read the bills that are being heard. Look at the schedule to see what is being voted on.
The State Joint Revenue Committee estimated the Corporate Tax bill would have raised over $23 MM per year. That's not fake news, that's straight from the State.

https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2020/HB0064
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OrediggerPoke
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Posts: 3840
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:57 am

PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:40 pm
WYO1016 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:52 pm
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
This is a pretty uninformed post. Let's take a look at what you said here.

"We need to toll I-80" - We already do. All commercial vehicle travel through the state pays a road use tax to the state. All tolling is going to do is have the trucking companies reroute and lose us money.

"It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses" - Patently false. There is a reason this keeps getting shot down. It would cause a mass exodus of businesses that aren't headquartered in Wyoming. That means we lose jobs, which means we lose people, which means businesses lose money.

"The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion..." - While I do agree with you that the abortion bills are absolutely ridiculous, (we only have 2 abortion clinics in the state, and they're both in Jackson. All these laws do are drive women out of state to get the procedure done if they choose.) there's a lot of talk about increasing revenue and avoiding more cuts. Don't just pay attention to the negative news. Read the bills that are being heard. Look at the schedule to see what is being voted on.
I've spent more time on the Wyoming Legislature website this week than I really care to admit. What do you propose to raise revenue, if the State refuses to curtail spending? Look through the list of bills being debated and tell me how many actually address the most important issue to the long-term health of Wyoming?

Most citizens and the entire legislative body won't touch property tax or income tax with a 10' poll (and I don't want these either), so it has to come from somewhere. We can't continue to prop up industries that will be substantially diminished in the next decade or two. Coal is dying, and will be nearly fully dead soon. Natural gas is severely depressed due to a massive surplus. Oil is hanging on, but there has been a drastic switch in the past 4-5 years; investors on Wall Street aren't looking to oil and gas. Agriculture provides a minuscule amount to Wyoming's GDP. We need to be progressive, and it's not happening except for maybe the Blockchain and Hemp movement.

I don't want to become Montana or Colorado, but we can't become WV or the South either. If you look at the other RM states they are booming due to a shift to recreation, tourism, technology, etc.

I'm well aware that a substantial amount of dollars that are spent at the pump are taxes, but how many semis do you think drive right through the State without stopping for fuel? The only way to collect revenue on those situations is with a toll. If I remember correctly we run a severe deficit on maintenance costs of I-80 vs federal dollars received (it's been a while since I looked at this to verify).

I don't have the article handy, but there was analysis on the corporate tax bill, and it didn't sound like it would drive corporations out of Wyoming in droves. Do you think the Oil companies are going to stop drilling and making 20-50% ROR on wells because of a relatively small tax? Is Walmart just going to shut the doors? We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, cause I'm in the belief that the out-of-state entities are here to make big dollars and a corporate tax won't drive them away. I'm not a corporate accountant, but wouldn't these tax dollars be a write-off against the home state income tax?

I'm against new taxes, but the math is pretty simple. If you expenditures exceed your revenue, you're gonna go broke.
I believe you have a lot of good input and understanding. I also hate the idea of income and increased property taxes but fundamentally revenues have to be raised because mineral funds aren’t coming back to the levels they once were and this state will quickly go broke as you say if we keep kicking the can down the road and drawing from reserves. I’m actually really nervous for the future of Wyoming (would have never even crossed my mind a decade ago).
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aranderson
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PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:40 pm
WYO1016 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:52 pm
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
This is a pretty uninformed post. Let's take a look at what you said here.

"We need to toll I-80" - We already do. All commercial vehicle travel through the state pays a road use tax to the state. All tolling is going to do is have the trucking companies reroute and lose us money.

"It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses" - Patently false. There is a reason this keeps getting shot down. It would cause a mass exodus of businesses that aren't headquartered in Wyoming. That means we lose jobs, which means we lose people, which means businesses lose money.

"The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion..." - While I do agree with you that the abortion bills are absolutely ridiculous, (we only have 2 abortion clinics in the state, and they're both in Jackson. All these laws do are drive women out of state to get the procedure done if they choose.) there's a lot of talk about increasing revenue and avoiding more cuts. Don't just pay attention to the negative news. Read the bills that are being heard. Look at the schedule to see what is being voted on.
I've spent more time on the Wyoming Legislature website this week than I really care to admit. What do you propose to raise revenue, if the State refuses to curtail spending? Look through the list of bills being debated and tell me how many actually address the most important issue to the long-term health of Wyoming?

Most citizens and the entire legislative body won't touch property tax or income tax with a 10' poll (and I don't want these either), so it has to come from somewhere. We can't continue to prop up industries that will be substantially diminished in the next decade or two. Coal is dying, and will be nearly fully dead soon. Natural gas is severely depressed due to a massive surplus. Oil is hanging on, but there has been a drastic switch in the past 4-5 years; investors on Wall Street aren't looking to oil and gas. Agriculture provides a minuscule amount to Wyoming's GDP. We need to be progressive, and it's not happening except for maybe the Blockchain and Hemp movement.

I don't want to become Montana or Colorado, but we can't become WV or the South either. If you look at the other RM states they are booming due to a shift to recreation, tourism, technology, etc.

I'm well aware that a substantial amount of dollars that are spent at the pump are taxes, but how many semis do you think drive right through the State without stopping for fuel? The only way to collect revenue on those situations is with a toll. If I remember correctly we run a severe deficit on maintenance costs of I-80 vs federal dollars received (it's been a while since I looked at this to verify).

I don't have the article handy, but there was analysis on the corporate tax bill, and it didn't sound like it would drive corporations out of Wyoming in droves. Do you think the Oil companies are going to stop drilling and making 20-50% ROR on wells because of a relatively small tax? Is Walmart just going to shut the doors? We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, cause I'm in the belief that the out-of-state entities are here to make big dollars and a corporate tax won't drive them away. I'm not a corporate accountant, but wouldn't these tax dollars be a write-off against the home state income tax?

I'm against new taxes, but the math is pretty simple. If you expenditures exceed your revenue, you're gonna go broke.
As a livestock hauler, I can attest to the road use taxes. You so not have to fuel in Wyoming to pay the taxes, you pay by the miles you drive on Wyoming highways, while it is however recommended to fuel and spend some money in Wyoming just for book purposes, we are required per the federal government to record mileage driven in each state, and each states tax is different. It is called "IFTA". Now I won't get overly detailed, but look it up, Wyoming is getting tax dollars no matter what from all commercial vehicles on all road through Wyoming, not just interstate highway travel.
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PokeNer
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aranderson wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:53 am
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:40 pm
WYO1016 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:52 pm
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
This is a pretty uninformed post. Let's take a look at what you said here.

"We need to toll I-80" - We already do. All commercial vehicle travel through the state pays a road use tax to the state. All tolling is going to do is have the trucking companies reroute and lose us money.

"It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses" - Patently false. There is a reason this keeps getting shot down. It would cause a mass exodus of businesses that aren't headquartered in Wyoming. That means we lose jobs, which means we lose people, which means businesses lose money.

"The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion..." - While I do agree with you that the abortion bills are absolutely ridiculous, (we only have 2 abortion clinics in the state, and they're both in Jackson. All these laws do are drive women out of state to get the procedure done if they choose.) there's a lot of talk about increasing revenue and avoiding more cuts. Don't just pay attention to the negative news. Read the bills that are being heard. Look at the schedule to see what is being voted on.
I've spent more time on the Wyoming Legislature website this week than I really care to admit. What do you propose to raise revenue, if the State refuses to curtail spending? Look through the list of bills being debated and tell me how many actually address the most important issue to the long-term health of Wyoming?

Most citizens and the entire legislative body won't touch property tax or income tax with a 10' poll (and I don't want these either), so it has to come from somewhere. We can't continue to prop up industries that will be substantially diminished in the next decade or two. Coal is dying, and will be nearly fully dead soon. Natural gas is severely depressed due to a massive surplus. Oil is hanging on, but there has been a drastic switch in the past 4-5 years; investors on Wall Street aren't looking to oil and gas. Agriculture provides a minuscule amount to Wyoming's GDP. We need to be progressive, and it's not happening except for maybe the Blockchain and Hemp movement.

I don't want to become Montana or Colorado, but we can't become WV or the South either. If you look at the other RM states they are booming due to a shift to recreation, tourism, technology, etc.

I'm well aware that a substantial amount of dollars that are spent at the pump are taxes, but how many semis do you think drive right through the State without stopping for fuel? The only way to collect revenue on those situations is with a toll. If I remember correctly we run a severe deficit on maintenance costs of I-80 vs federal dollars received (it's been a while since I looked at this to verify).

I don't have the article handy, but there was analysis on the corporate tax bill, and it didn't sound like it would drive corporations out of Wyoming in droves. Do you think the Oil companies are going to stop drilling and making 20-50% ROR on wells because of a relatively small tax? Is Walmart just going to shut the doors? We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, cause I'm in the belief that the out-of-state entities are here to make big dollars and a corporate tax won't drive them away. I'm not a corporate accountant, but wouldn't these tax dollars be a write-off against the home state income tax?

I'm against new taxes, but the math is pretty simple. If you expenditures exceed your revenue, you're gonna go broke.
As a livestock hauler, I can attest to the road use taxes. You so not have to fuel in Wyoming to pay the taxes, you pay by the miles you drive on Wyoming highways, while it is however recommended to fuel and spend some money in Wyoming just for book purposes, we are required per the federal government to record mileage driven in each state, and each states tax is different. It is called "IFTA". Now I won't get overly detailed, but look it up, Wyoming is getting tax dollars no matter what from all commercial vehicles on all road through Wyoming, not just interstate highway travel.
I believe that is how Apportioning works. So yeah, Wyoming is getting lots of federal dollars to put towards highways. My concern is that it's not enough. I believe the last figure I saw is that it costs around $100 MM a year just to maintain I-80 in its current state (no improvements). We get ~$260 MM back from the Feds for all our highways/interstates. Once you start throwing repairs or improvements in, that $260 MM won't come close to covering expenditures.

It's hard for a State the size of Wyoming to maintain an interstate system, that primarily benefits other states, and keep a balanced budget. When you're talking $100s of millions of dollars that the State has to come up with to maintain a federal transportation system, it's easy to start running in the red and having to pull funds from accounts that would benefit our citizens much more than an interstate system. These are the big ticket items that our Legislature has to focus on.

It was discussed previously about how we really aren't running a deficit, which may be partially true for a couple years. However, it sounds like that was primarily due to unexpected returns on investments; that's also not wise to expect 15%+ returns year-after-year. I wonder how much the fund has lost in the last week due to the Coronavirus scare?

Until we can balance those side of things, it makes sense to not fund UW construction projects that are potentially considered a "luxury" by folks around the State.
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aranderson
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Location: Silesia, Montana

PokeNer wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:04 am
aranderson wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:53 am
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:40 pm
WYO1016 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:52 pm
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
This is a pretty uninformed post. Let's take a look at what you said here.

"We need to toll I-80" - We already do. All commercial vehicle travel through the state pays a road use tax to the state. All tolling is going to do is have the trucking companies reroute and lose us money.

"It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses" - Patently false. There is a reason this keeps getting shot down. It would cause a mass exodus of businesses that aren't headquartered in Wyoming. That means we lose jobs, which means we lose people, which means businesses lose money.

"The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion..." - While I do agree with you that the abortion bills are absolutely ridiculous, (we only have 2 abortion clinics in the state, and they're both in Jackson. All these laws do are drive women out of state to get the procedure done if they choose.) there's a lot of talk about increasing revenue and avoiding more cuts. Don't just pay attention to the negative news. Read the bills that are being heard. Look at the schedule to see what is being voted on.
I've spent more time on the Wyoming Legislature website this week than I really care to admit. What do you propose to raise revenue, if the State refuses to curtail spending? Look through the list of bills being debated and tell me how many actually address the most important issue to the long-term health of Wyoming?

Most citizens and the entire legislative body won't touch property tax or income tax with a 10' poll (and I don't want these either), so it has to come from somewhere. We can't continue to prop up industries that will be substantially diminished in the next decade or two. Coal is dying, and will be nearly fully dead soon. Natural gas is severely depressed due to a massive surplus. Oil is hanging on, but there has been a drastic switch in the past 4-5 years; investors on Wall Street aren't looking to oil and gas. Agriculture provides a minuscule amount to Wyoming's GDP. We need to be progressive, and it's not happening except for maybe the Blockchain and Hemp movement.

I don't want to become Montana or Colorado, but we can't become WV or the South either. If you look at the other RM states they are booming due to a shift to recreation, tourism, technology, etc.

I'm well aware that a substantial amount of dollars that are spent at the pump are taxes, but how many semis do you think drive right through the State without stopping for fuel? The only way to collect revenue on those situations is with a toll. If I remember correctly we run a severe deficit on maintenance costs of I-80 vs federal dollars received (it's been a while since I looked at this to verify).

I don't have the article handy, but there was analysis on the corporate tax bill, and it didn't sound like it would drive corporations out of Wyoming in droves. Do you think the Oil companies are going to stop drilling and making 20-50% ROR on wells because of a relatively small tax? Is Walmart just going to shut the doors? We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, cause I'm in the belief that the out-of-state entities are here to make big dollars and a corporate tax won't drive them away. I'm not a corporate accountant, but wouldn't these tax dollars be a write-off against the home state income tax?

I'm against new taxes, but the math is pretty simple. If you expenditures exceed your revenue, you're gonna go broke.
As a livestock hauler, I can attest to the road use taxes. You so not have to fuel in Wyoming to pay the taxes, you pay by the miles you drive on Wyoming highways, while it is however recommended to fuel and spend some money in Wyoming just for book purposes, we are required per the federal government to record mileage driven in each state, and each states tax is different. It is called "IFTA". Now I won't get overly detailed, but look it up, Wyoming is getting tax dollars no matter what from all commercial vehicles on all road through Wyoming, not just interstate highway travel.
I believe that is how Apportioning works. So yeah, Wyoming is getting lots of federal dollars to put towards highways. My concern is that it's not enough. I believe the last figure I saw is that it costs around $100 MM a year just to maintain I-80 in its current state (no improvements). We get ~$260 MM back from the Feds for all our highways/interstates. Once you start throwing repairs or improvements in, that $260 MM won't come close to covering expenditures.

It's hard for a State the size of Wyoming to maintain an interstate system, that primarily benefits other states, and keep a balanced budget. When you're talking $100s of millions of dollars that the State has to come up with to maintain a federal transportation system, it's easy to start running in the red and having to pull funds from accounts that would benefit our citizens much more than an interstate system. These are the big ticket items that our Legislature has to focus on.

It was discussed previously about how we really aren't running a deficit, which may be partially true for a couple years. However, it sounds like that was primarily due to unexpected returns on investments; that's also not wise to expect 15%+ returns year-after-year. I wonder how much the fund has lost in the last week due to the Coronavirus scare?

Until we can balance those side of things, it makes sense to not fund UW construction projects that are potentially considered a "luxury" by folks around the State.
While all true and fair points, I read an article somewhere that Wyoming's highway system ranks #1 in the country as they do far more with money they have than any other state. I will try to locate for reference. Apologies, I believe the article was from 6 years ago. They have since slid to middle of the pack from my short dive into looking.
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WYO1016
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OrediggerPoke wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:15 pm
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:40 pm
I'm against new taxes, but the math is pretty simple. If you expenditures exceed your revenue, you're gonna go broke.
I believe you have a lot of good input and understanding. I also hate the idea of income and increased property taxes but fundamentally revenues have to be raised because mineral funds aren’t coming back to the levels they once were and this state will quickly go broke as you say if we keep kicking the can down the road and drawing from reserves. I’m actually really nervous for the future of Wyoming (would have never even crossed my mind a decade ago).
Soapbox time for me: The only really well thought out revenue bill at the moment is HB0134 - Wyoming tourism account funding. To be totally transparent I do work in the hospitality industry, so I'm not completely impartial.

There's a lot of misunderstanding going on around this bill. It's approving a 5% statewide lodging tax. 3% of that funds the Wyoming Office of Tourism, which is currently a line-item on the general fund. 2% goes to the county. The lodging tax is only applied to hotel rooms, which are 80% occupied by out-of-state travelers.

Not only will this give consistent funding to the #2 revenue generating industry in the state, it will return roughly $23 million to the general fund. That's a win-win if I ever saw one.
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LanderPoke
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As far as the I-80 toll thing is concerned, we've basically got the nation captive. There's not other viable routes. Can't do I-70 and the other routes are too far out of the way. Seems like a good idea to me.
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laxwyo
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There are so many examples of what happens when a state or municipalities increase taxes to meet budgets. Eventually, the tax base decreases and so do the revenues. Then the remaining tax base are hit with more taxes and it shrinks more. Newark, NJ is one example that’s been analyzed as a perfect example of what happens. Income taxes are complete theft and should be abolished on all levels. Use taxes are the way to go.
W-Y, Until I Die!
307bball
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laxwyo wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:30 pm
There are so many examples of what happens when a state or municipalities increase taxes to meet budgets. Eventually, the tax base decreases and so do the revenues. Then the remaining tax base are hit with more taxes and it shrinks more. Newark, NJ is one example that’s been analyzed as a perfect example of what happens. Income taxes are complete theft and should be abolished on all levels. Use taxes are the way to go.
Just for clarification...

Use tax, Sales tax, VAT....what's the difference?
WyoBrandX
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This thread has intrigued me. I thought I'd pass on some things I've found:

https://wyoleg.gov/budget/2019databook.pdf

http://www.dot.state.wy.us/files/live/s ... Budget.pdf

http://www.dot.state.wy.us/files/live/s ... 20STIP.pdf

And of course, I'm starting to wonder if the dynamics of online retail aren't taking a toll on our roads:

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/lawsuit-c ... ing-crash/

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/05/us/a ... dents.html

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/drive ... low-amazon

That next day shippping may be pretty brutal on our interstate system.
Expat_Poke
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PokeNer wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:04 am
aranderson wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:53 am
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:40 pm
WYO1016 wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:52 pm
PokeNer wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:05 pm
It's pretty sad that our legislature hasn't taken any of this seriously. We need to toll I-80, I think there was a study a few years back that determined over 90% of that traffic neither originates or ends in Wyoming. Toll it, and pass the buck on to the consumers who are using it to transport their goods - UT/CA/NV and the Eastern States.

It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses; they were only going to tax entities that were taking money out of state. But again the legislature shot it down. They are all for small-government when it comes to taxes, but aren't afraid to keep growing when it involves over-reach or handouts.

The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion, allocating money for ranchers, and trying to prop up the dying coal industry (which is going to prove futile).
This is a pretty uninformed post. Let's take a look at what you said here.

"We need to toll I-80" - We already do. All commercial vehicle travel through the state pays a road use tax to the state. All tolling is going to do is have the trucking companies reroute and lose us money.

"It sounds like the proposed corporate tax wouldn't have hurt any Wyoming businesses" - Patently false. There is a reason this keeps getting shot down. It would cause a mass exodus of businesses that aren't headquartered in Wyoming. That means we lose jobs, which means we lose people, which means businesses lose money.

"The only thing the legislature has accomplished so far in this session was passing laws on abortion..." - While I do agree with you that the abortion bills are absolutely ridiculous, (we only have 2 abortion clinics in the state, and they're both in Jackson. All these laws do are drive women out of state to get the procedure done if they choose.) there's a lot of talk about increasing revenue and avoiding more cuts. Don't just pay attention to the negative news. Read the bills that are being heard. Look at the schedule to see what is being voted on.
I've spent more time on the Wyoming Legislature website this week than I really care to admit. What do you propose to raise revenue, if the State refuses to curtail spending? Look through the list of bills being debated and tell me how many actually address the most important issue to the long-term health of Wyoming?

Most citizens and the entire legislative body won't touch property tax or income tax with a 10' poll (and I don't want these either), so it has to come from somewhere. We can't continue to prop up industries that will be substantially diminished in the next decade or two. Coal is dying, and will be nearly fully dead soon. Natural gas is severely depressed due to a massive surplus. Oil is hanging on, but there has been a drastic switch in the past 4-5 years; investors on Wall Street aren't looking to oil and gas. Agriculture provides a minuscule amount to Wyoming's GDP. We need to be progressive, and it's not happening except for maybe the Blockchain and Hemp movement.

I don't want to become Montana or Colorado, but we can't become WV or the South either. If you look at the other RM states they are booming due to a shift to recreation, tourism, technology, etc.

I'm well aware that a substantial amount of dollars that are spent at the pump are taxes, but how many semis do you think drive right through the State without stopping for fuel? The only way to collect revenue on those situations is with a toll. If I remember correctly we run a severe deficit on maintenance costs of I-80 vs federal dollars received (it's been a while since I looked at this to verify).

I don't have the article handy, but there was analysis on the corporate tax bill, and it didn't sound like it would drive corporations out of Wyoming in droves. Do you think the Oil companies are going to stop drilling and making 20-50% ROR on wells because of a relatively small tax? Is Walmart just going to shut the doors? We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one, cause I'm in the belief that the out-of-state entities are here to make big dollars and a corporate tax won't drive them away. I'm not a corporate accountant, but wouldn't these tax dollars be a write-off against the home state income tax?

I'm against new taxes, but the math is pretty simple. If you expenditures exceed your revenue, you're gonna go broke.
As a livestock hauler, I can attest to the road use taxes. You so not have to fuel in Wyoming to pay the taxes, you pay by the miles you drive on Wyoming highways, while it is however recommended to fuel and spend some money in Wyoming just for book purposes, we are required per the federal government to record mileage driven in each state, and each states tax is different. It is called "IFTA". Now I won't get overly detailed, but look it up, Wyoming is getting tax dollars no matter what from all commercial vehicles on all road through Wyoming, not just interstate highway travel.
I believe that is how Apportioning works. So yeah, Wyoming is getting lots of federal dollars to put towards highways. My concern is that it's not enough. I believe the last figure I saw is that it costs around $100 MM a year just to maintain I-80 in its current state (no improvements). We get ~$260 MM back from the Feds for all our highways/interstates. Once you start throwing repairs or improvements in, that $260 MM won't come close to covering expenditures.

It's hard for a State the size of Wyoming to maintain an interstate system, that primarily benefits other states, and keep a balanced budget. When you're talking $100s of millions of dollars that the State has to come up with to maintain a federal transportation system, it's easy to start running in the red and having to pull funds from accounts that would benefit our citizens much more than an interstate system. These are the big ticket items that our Legislature has to focus on.

It was discussed previously about how we really aren't running a deficit, which may be partially true for a couple years. However, it sounds like that was primarily due to unexpected returns on investments; that's also not wise to expect 15%+ returns year-after-year. I wonder how much the fund has lost in the last week due to the Coronavirus scare?

Until we can balance those side of things, it makes sense to not fund UW construction projects that are potentially considered a "luxury" by folks around the State.
States can raise or lower their IFTA rates. Last I checked Wyoming is at $ 0.2400 compared to Colorado at $ 0.2050, Nebraska at $ 0.2970, and Kansas at $ 0.2600. To me the IFTA rates make the most sense in helping fund maintenance on long miles of remote interstate. Most of the maintenance is weather/climate/and commercial/industrial trucking induced. While we can't do much about weather and climate, we can do things that make it so the consumers of those items being shipped cover their share of the cost of upkeep needed for their goods to be shipped as they are.

One thing I wonder is how much additional money Wyoming has to spend with additional maintenance because the FHWA/BPR decided I-80 needed to be the shorter route between Laramie and Rawlins.
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Lost Poke
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The conference meets are done, and Our Cowgirls placed 3rd in the MWC behind SDSU and UNLV. Looking at the results, it seems we have focused in a some smart areas for a smaller team (distance, relays, diving), and that paid off.

Our Cowboys were 4th in the WAC, behind two MWC schools (AFA and UNLV) and Grand Canyon. I haven't looked at the sheets, but I'm guessin we'd see the same thing there.

I really think this shows that an investment in these two sports can get us to a conference championship level.

In addition, if the pool we build can be utilized for long course (Olympic, summer youth competitive) as well as short course (college, HS, winter youth competitive), we may see some major players training in Laramie over the course of the year, particularly in the summer when a short course pool will be sitting idle.

Here are events we could see in Laramie with a long course pool:
- Arena championship meets (High school and Collegians, of national stature)
- Competitive Wyoming Swimming summer events, that would naturally draw some big Colorado Swimming teams as far south as Colorado Springs
- Western Zones
- Western Sectionals
- TYR meets (basically collegians and olympians)

There is a long course YMCA pool in Des Moines that gets a lot of these types of events. It could be great for us.
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LanderPoke
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Lost Poke wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:18 pm
The conference meets are done, and Our Cowgirls placed 3rd in the MWC behind SDSU and UNLV. Looking at the results, it seems we have focused in a some smart areas for a smaller team (distance, relays, diving), and that paid off.

Our Cowboys were 4th in the WAC, behind two MWC schools (AFA and UNLV) and Grand Canyon. I haven't looked at the sheets, but I'm guessin we'd see the same thing there.

I really think this shows that an investment in these two sports can get us to a conference championship level.

In addition, if the pool we build can be utilized for long course (Olympic, summer youth competitive) as well as short course (college, HS, winter youth competitive), we may see some major players training in Laramie over the course of the year, particularly in the summer when a short course pool will be sitting idle.

Here are events we could see in Laramie with a long course pool:
- Arena championship meets (High school and Collegians, of national stature)
- Competitive Wyoming Swimming summer events, that would naturally draw some big Colorado Swimming teams as far south as Colorado Springs
- Western Zones
- Western Sectionals
- TYR meets (basically collegians and olympians)

There is a long course YMCA pool in Des Moines that gets a lot of these types of events. It could be great for us.
It would definitely have a positive economic impact on the town of Laramie, but a lot of legislators think Laramie gets way more than it deserves, sadly.
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WestWYOPoke
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Lost Poke wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:18 pm
The conference meets are done, and Our Cowgirls placed 3rd in the MWC behind SDSU and UNLV. Looking at the results, it seems we have focused in a some smart areas for a smaller team (distance, relays, diving), and that paid off.

Our Cowboys were 4th in the WAC, behind two MWC schools (AFA and UNLV) and Grand Canyon. I haven't looked at the sheets, but I'm guessin we'd see the same thing there.

I really think this shows that an investment in these two sports can get us to a conference championship level.

In addition, if the pool we build can be utilized for long course (Olympic, summer youth competitive) as well as short course (college, HS, winter youth competitive), we may see some major players training in Laramie over the course of the year, particularly in the summer when a short course pool will be sitting idle.

Here are events we could see in Laramie with a long course pool:
- Arena championship meets (High school and Collegians, of national stature)
- Competitive Wyoming Swimming summer events, that would naturally draw some big Colorado Swimming teams as far south as Colorado Springs
- Western Zones
- Western Sectionals
- TYR meets (basically collegians and olympians)

There is a long course YMCA pool in Des Moines that gets a lot of these types of events. It could be great for us.
I agree that a long-course pool would bring more events to Laramie, but I doubt we would see many of the high-level events come to 7220. For example, Denver would be a great location to host a large event like NCAAs, but everyone knows it won't happen because of the elevation. Have to imagine that wouldn't be much different in Laramie's case.

But state and small-region events would definitely benefit. Would be nice to have high school state events somewhere besides Gillette for once.
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TSpoke
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WestWYOPoke wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:45 pm
Lost Poke wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:18 pm
The conference meets are done, and Our Cowgirls placed 3rd in the MWC behind SDSU and UNLV. Looking at the results, it seems we have focused in a some smart areas for a smaller team (distance, relays, diving), and that paid off.

Our Cowboys were 4th in the WAC, behind two MWC schools (AFA and UNLV) and Grand Canyon. I haven't looked at the sheets, but I'm guessin we'd see the same thing there.

I really think this shows that an investment in these two sports can get us to a conference championship level.

In addition, if the pool we build can be utilized for long course (Olympic, summer youth competitive) as well as short course (college, HS, winter youth competitive), we may see some major players training in Laramie over the course of the year, particularly in the summer when a short course pool will be sitting idle.

Here are events we could see in Laramie with a long course pool:
- Arena championship meets (High school and Collegians, of national stature)
- Competitive Wyoming Swimming summer events, that would naturally draw some big Colorado Swimming teams as far south as Colorado Springs
- Western Zones
- Western Sectionals
- TYR meets (basically collegians and olympians)

There is a long course YMCA pool in Des Moines that gets a lot of these types of events. It could be great for us.
I agree that a long-course pool would bring more events to Laramie, but I doubt we would see many of the high-level events come to 7220. For example, Denver would be a great location to host a large event like NCAAs, but everyone knows it won't happen because of the elevation. Have to imagine that wouldn't be much different in Laramie's case.

But state and small-region events would definitely benefit. Would be nice to have high school state events somewhere besides Gillette for once.
Laramie currently hosts state swimming and diving events. They rotate between Gillette and Laramie with either boys or girls taking place in one or the other every year. Since the new HS opened in Laramie.
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PokeNer
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It looks like the House re-introduced the funding bill:

https://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/l ... 71c96.html

Side note:
What's the opinion on the lodging tax they passed? It's a way to generate new revenue, but this is probably the one tax that was proposed that hits Wyoming residents the hardest, especially us on this board that frequently travel to Laramie and get lodging.

I know WYO1016 discussed the pros above, just wondered what everyone else was thinking in relation to possible ways to fund State/UW projects.
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Lost Poke
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Posts: 432
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WestWYOPoke wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:45 pm
Lost Poke wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:18 pm
The conference meets are done, and Our Cowgirls placed 3rd in the MWC behind SDSU and UNLV. Looking at the results, it seems we have focused in a some smart areas for a smaller team (distance, relays, diving), and that paid off.

Our Cowboys were 4th in the WAC, behind two MWC schools (AFA and UNLV) and Grand Canyon. I haven't looked at the sheets, but I'm guessin we'd see the same thing there.

I really think this shows that an investment in these two sports can get us to a conference championship level.

In addition, if the pool we build can be utilized for long course (Olympic, summer youth competitive) as well as short course (college, HS, winter youth competitive), we may see some major players training in Laramie over the course of the year, particularly in the summer when a short course pool will be sitting idle.

Here are events we could see in Laramie with a long course pool:
- Arena championship meets (High school and Collegians, of national stature)
- Competitive Wyoming Swimming summer events, that would naturally draw some big Colorado Swimming teams as far south as Colorado Springs
- Western Zones
- Western Sectionals
- TYR meets (basically collegians and olympians)

There is a long course YMCA pool in Des Moines that gets a lot of these types of events. It could be great for us.
I agree that a long-course pool would bring more events to Laramie, but I doubt we would see many of the high-level events come to 7220. For example, Denver would be a great location to host a large event like NCAAs, but everyone knows it won't happen because of the elevation. Have to imagine that wouldn't be much different in Laramie's case.

But state and small-region events would definitely benefit. Would be nice to have high school state events somewhere besides Gillette for once.
I thought about the altitude angle later on, too. So, you're right, no zones or national level events. Colorado / Wyoming Swimming would still take advantage. High altitude training camps could really be a great selling point - I know Tom Johnson made that point during the HAPC planning. Train in Laramie for two weeks leading up to the TYR or Arena meet, and drop to sea level for the competition.
stymeman
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One of these days it'll go to an emergency need, the longer they put the band aid on that Westside its only going to get worse and worse, then what??? As for the pool it'd be nice as well, probably no time soon, unfortunately
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HomeOnTheRange
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OrediggerPoke wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 am
The State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in!
if only the state were making serious efforts to diversify its economy with major investments in renewable energy resources, which are abundant in the state, instead of trying like heck to keep fossil fuels the driving force
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HomeOnTheRange
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Pokes fan 24-7 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pm
We are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.
Amen. Healthcare and education in the state is pathetic. The cuts to higher ed have been horrible. UW is the only 4-year school in the state and supplies a major percentage of the skilled workforce in the state and you continually gut it??? Such stupid governance

Ivinson Memorial was without a single ENT on staff for several years. I am not sure if they even have one now. Had to go to Fort Collins to find a decent ENT within reasonable driving range of Laramie. Pathetic.
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