WyoNation.com

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:20 am

Pokes fan 24-7 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pmWe are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.

Amen. Healthcare and education in the state is pathetic. The cuts to higher ed have been horrible. UW is the only 4-year school in the state and supplies a major percentage of the skilled workforce in the state and you continually gut it??? Such stupid governance

Ivinson Memorial was without a single ENT on staff for several years. I am not sure if they even have one now. Had to go to Fort Collins to find a decent ENT within reasonable driving range of Laramie. Pathetic.

You two are the f-word pathetic ones. Get the f-word out of here with that talk. Education is a never ending money pit the government has no business running. How much does the state spend on each student per year? You could hire a private tutor for each kid with the money they dump into the ever expansive money hole. Such a great place where your kids get to be bullied and Indoctrinated by liberal poop. It’ll be the one place your child is guaranteed to experience violence in their whole life. Never ever vote to increase education spending because you’ll never be able to cut it. The world of knowledge is at your fingertips and we’re still letting the government teach our children in a 19th century way??

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:20 am

Pokes fan 24-7 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pmWe are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.

Amen. Healthcare and education in the state is pathetic. The cuts to higher ed have been horrible. UW is the only 4-year school in the state and supplies a major percentage of the skilled workforce in the state and you continually gut it??? Such stupid governance

Ivinson Memorial was without a single ENT on staff for several years. I am not sure if they even have one now. Had to go to Fort Collins to find a decent ENT within reasonable driving range of Laramie. Pathetic.

They have one now. Dr. Johnson

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:17 am

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 amThe State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in!

if only the state were making serious efforts to diversify its economy with major investments in renewable energy resources, which are abundant in the state, instead of trying like heck to keep fossil fuels the driving force

Renewable energy is a blight that will wreck the planet. Those damned wind farms are destroying the view shed. Shirley Basin used to be beautiful until they filled it with ugly windmills that kill hundreds of birds.

A wind or solar farm stretching to the horizon can be replaced by a handful of gas powered generators the size of a semi.

One wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of non recyclable plastic (which requires crude oil). Solar requires even more cement, steel and glass. Production of concrete is one of the biggest sources of carbon dioxide.

Building enough wind turbines to provide half the world’s electricity would require two billion tons of coal to make the steel and two billion barrels of oil to make the composite blades. And how do you responsibly dispose of all this stuff when the turbine reaches the end of its useful life. Renewable energy indeed!

It’s all just a “feel good” proposition exploited by cronies of the politicians who advocate for it.

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:20 am

Pokes fan 24-7 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pmWe are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.

Amen. Healthcare and education in the state is pathetic. The cuts to higher ed have been horrible. UW is the only 4-year school in the state and supplies a major percentage of the skilled workforce in the state and you continually gut it??? Such stupid governance

Ivinson Memorial was without a single ENT on staff for several years. I am not sure if they even have one now. Had to go to Fort Collins to find a decent ENT within reasonable driving range of Laramie. Pathetic.

Income tax is the wrong way to go. They'd have to fund another department to collect income taxes. Then all the stupid BS that comes with it. Use tax is the way to go.

Raise:
- Fuel taxes (we use a hell of alot of fuel in the state - and have to pave alot of roadways)
- Sales tax - add another 2% on to the states 4% already. If you don't like the tax, don't buy it.
- Mineral taxes - we are at historic lows on what we tax on gas/oil/coal.

Look at reworking how our school systems work. Hell, electric busses could be a money saver in some of these areas.

The criminal justice system needs looked at closer. Way to many people in the system that didn't actually cause anyone harm.

laxwyo wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:36 pm

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:20 am

Pokes fan 24-7 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pmWe are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.

Amen. Healthcare and education in the state is pathetic. The cuts to higher ed have been horrible. UW is the only 4-year school in the state and supplies a major percentage of the skilled workforce in the state and you continually gut it??? Such stupid governance

Ivinson Memorial was without a single ENT on staff for several years. I am not sure if they even have one now. Had to go to Fort Collins to find a decent ENT within reasonable driving range of Laramie. Pathetic.

You two are the f##k[#] pathetic ones. Get the [#]f##k out of here with that talk. Education is a never ending money pit the government has no business running. How much does the state spend on each student per year? You could hire a private tutor for each kid with the money they dump into the ever expansive money hole. Such a great place where your kids get to be bullied and Indoctrinated by liberal poop. It’ll be the one place your child is guaranteed to experience violence in their whole life. Never ever vote to increase education spending because you’ll never be able to cut it. The world of knowledge is at your fingertips and we’re still letting the government teach our children in a 19th century way??

You have some great points. Private schooling is part of the answer. Wyoming schools are in pretty damn good shape though. I don't know why some of the remote schooling doesn't embrace technology more. It is where the world is going. We need to invest in our future - but damn k-12 is a bottomless pit these days.

Spend some time in Montana, some of the schools they have up there were built 100 years ago, haven't had any maintenance on them, and are falling down. - We don't have any of that - when the times are good we raze and build new. If that money went into a trust fund instead, many of these remote schools could pay the teachers and admin indefinitely.

ZapPoke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:45 pm

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:17 am

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 amThe State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in!

if only the state were making serious efforts to diversify its economy with major investments in renewable energy resources, which are abundant in the state, instead of trying like heck to keep fossil fuels the driving force

Renewable energy is a blight that will wreck the planet. Those damned wind farms are destroying the view shed. Shirley Basin used to be beautiful until they filled it with ugly windmills that kill hundreds of birds.

A wind or solar farm stretching to the horizon can be replaced by a handful of gas powered generators the size of a semi.

One wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of non recyclable plastic (which requires crude oil). Solar requires even more cement, steel and glass. Production of concrete is one of the biggest sources of carbon dioxide.

Building enough wind turbines to provide half the world’s electricity would require two billion tons of coal to make the steel and two billion barrels of oil to make the composite blades. And how do you responsibly dispose of all this stuff when the turbine reaches the end of its useful life. Renewable energy indeed!

It’s all just a “feel good” proposition exploited by cronies of the politicians who advocate for it.

+1.I loathe wind and solar. It's truly a blight and is nothing more than mindless virtue signaling

ZapPoke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:45 pm

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:17 am

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 amThe State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in!

if only the state were making serious efforts to diversify its economy with major investments in renewable energy resources, which are abundant in the state, instead of trying like heck to keep fossil fuels the driving force

Renewable energy is a blight that will wreck the planet. Those damned wind farms are destroying the view shed. Shirley Basin used to be beautiful until they filled it with ugly windmills that kill hundreds of birds.

A wind or solar farm stretching to the horizon can be replaced by a handful of gas powered generators the size of a semi.

One wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of non recyclable plastic (which requires crude oil). Solar requires even more cement, steel and glass. Production of concrete is one of the biggest sources of carbon dioxide.

Building enough wind turbines to provide half the world’s electricity would require two billion tons of coal to make the steel and two billion barrels of oil to make the composite blades. And how do you responsibly dispose of all this stuff when the turbine reaches the end of its useful life. Renewable energy indeed!

It’s all just a “feel good” proposition exploited by cronies of the politicians who advocate for it.

The funny thing part about renewables is that don’t even use the best one. From what I’ve read and heard people talk about, solar thermal is a pretty damn good renewable resource. Also, the big white wind turbines are stupid, there’s other designs that work from any direction because they’re on a vertical axis with no gear box instead of horizontal. I’d rather see one coal plant on 1/q100th the footprint of those ugly wind farms

laxwyo wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:27 pm

ZapPoke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:45 pm

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:17 am

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 amThe State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in!

if only the state were making serious efforts to diversify its economy with major investments in renewable energy resources, which are abundant in the state, instead of trying like heck to keep fossil fuels the driving force

Renewable energy is a blight that will wreck the planet. Those damned wind farms are destroying the view shed. Shirley Basin used to be beautiful until they filled it with ugly windmills that kill hundreds of birds.

A wind or solar farm stretching to the horizon can be replaced by a handful of gas powered generators the size of a semi.

One wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of non recyclable plastic (which requires crude oil). Solar requires even more cement, steel and glass. Production of concrete is one of the biggest sources of carbon dioxide.

Building enough wind turbines to provide half the world’s electricity would require two billion tons of coal to make the steel and two billion barrels of oil to make the composite blades. And how do you responsibly dispose of all this stuff when the turbine reaches the end of its useful life. Renewable energy indeed!

It’s all just a “feel good” proposition exploited by cronies of the politicians who advocate for it.

The funny thing part about renewables is that don’t even use the best one. From what I’ve read and heard people talk about, solar thermal is a pretty damn good renewable resource. Also, the big white wind turbines are stupid, there’s other designs that work from any direction because they’re on a vertical axis with no gear box instead of horizontal. I’d rather see one coal plant on 1/q100th the footprint of those ugly wind farms

Whats the stat - something like this:

In a single hour, the amount of power from the sun that strikes the Earth is more than the entire world consumes in an year.

Each hour 430 quintillion Joules of energy from the sun hits the Earth. We use 410 qunitillion / yr

Storage is the obvious issue - but pump water uphill during the day and let it spin a turbin at night. Many ways around storing it.

In the short term, the state is in a lot more trouble than it had forecast. Every $1 drop in in oil prices is roughly a loss of $70 million in tax and royalty revenues to the State.

That said - low oil prices could be a help in the long run for coal and natural gas revenues to the State. Low oil prices lead to less oil drilling and the production of less 'associated gas' from oil wells leading to lower natural gas supply and higher prices. Higher natural gas prices increase demand for coal.

HOWEVER, we look at it, things are looking REALLY BAD for the State over the next couple of years if things don't change.

WyoBrandX wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:40 pm Storage is the obvious issue - but pump water uphill during the day and let it spin a turbin at night. Many ways around storing it.

Not to mention, fresh water is becoming a huge issue in many areas. On top of pumping water uphill, you could also spend excess energy on desalinating some of it.

Asmodeanreborn wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 10:25 am

WyoBrandX wrote: ↑Wed Mar 11, 2020 1:40 pm Storage is the obvious issue - but pump water uphill during the day and let it spin a turbin at night. Many ways around storing it.

Not to mention, fresh water is becoming a huge issue in many areas. On top of pumping water uphill, you could also spend excess energy on desalinating some of it.

There's also wastewater that could be cleaned and recycled. We have 5 billion years left before the sun burns out, and if we can capture just a small percentage of its energy, humanity is set for a long long time.

Someone smarter than me would know, but I've wondered for a while, couldn't some of our coal be used to clean some waterways/help filter water sources? I know it can desalinize unless you burn it for energy, but there's got to be a use for the stuff outside of burning it.

WyoBrandX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:30 pm

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:20 am

Pokes fan 24-7 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pmWe are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.

Amen. Healthcare and education in the state is pathetic. The cuts to higher ed have been horrible. UW is the only 4-year school in the state and supplies a major percentage of the skilled workforce in the state and you continually gut it??? Such stupid governance

Ivinson Memorial was without a single ENT on staff for several years. I am not sure if they even have one now. Had to go to Fort Collins to find a decent ENT within reasonable driving range of Laramie. Pathetic.

Income tax is the wrong way to go. They'd have to fund another department to collect income taxes. Then all the stupid BS that comes with it. Use tax is the way to go.

Raise:
- Fuel taxes (we use a hell of alot of fuel in the state - and have to pave alot of roadways)
- Sales tax - add another 2% on to the states 4% already. If you don't like the tax, don't buy it.
- Mineral taxes - we are at historic lows on what we tax on gas/oil/coal.

Look at reworking how our school systems work. Hell, electric busses could be a money saver in some of these areas.

The criminal justice system needs looked at closer. Way to many people in the system that didn't actually cause anyone harm.

Something rather ridiculous about Wyoming sales tax is the exemption of all food purchased in "grocery stores" from it. I can understand exempting staples like milk, produce, meat (even processed meats), bread, etc. But to exempt candy, soda, energy drinks, bar mixers, pastries, and, most especially ready-to-eat foods that are no different than basic restaurant fare (restaurants must add sales tax), well it sure seems like a lot of revenue is being sidestepped and loopholed.

Wyovanian wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:37 pm

WyoBrandX wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:30 pm

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:20 am

Pokes fan 24-7 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:00 pmWe are way past due for a state income tax. If we were smart we would do it now before we have to gut K12 higher education, health and human services (too late here) and other essential gov functions. It won’t happen tho.

Amen. Healthcare and education in the state is pathetic. The cuts to higher ed have been horrible. UW is the only 4-year school in the state and supplies a major percentage of the skilled workforce in the state and you continually gut it??? Such stupid governance

Ivinson Memorial was without a single ENT on staff for several years. I am not sure if they even have one now. Had to go to Fort Collins to find a decent ENT within reasonable driving range of Laramie. Pathetic.

Income tax is the wrong way to go. They'd have to fund another department to collect income taxes. Then all the stupid BS that comes with it. Use tax is the way to go.

Raise:
- Fuel taxes (we use a hell of alot of fuel in the state - and have to pave alot of roadways)
- Sales tax - add another 2% on to the states 4% already. If you don't like the tax, don't buy it.
- Mineral taxes - we are at historic lows on what we tax on gas/oil/coal.

Look at reworking how our school systems work. Hell, electric busses could be a money saver in some of these areas.

The criminal justice system needs looked at closer. Way to many people in the system that didn't actually cause anyone harm.

Something rather ridiculous about Wyoming sales tax is the exemption of all food purchased in "grocery stores" from it. I can understand exempting staples like milk, produce, meat (even processed meats), bread, etc. But to exempt candy, soda, energy drinks, bar mixers, pastries, and, most especially ready-to-eat foods that are no different than basic restaurant fare (restaurants must add sales tax), well it sure seems like a lot of revenue is being sidestepped and loopholed.

Yeah - I agree. If you prepare it, no tax, if it is prepared, taxed (basically). Our alcohol tax is on the low side as well.

Well, this isn't good news...

https://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/l ... 2c00e.html

Lost Poke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:40 am Well, this isn't good news...

https://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/l ... 2c00e.html

Things have become much worse. Governor suggests now that the legislature will need to reconvene for a 'special legislative session' due to the massive funding shortfall that was not anticipated in the budget which was just recently completed. With oil prices collapse to $20/bbl and the tourism industry slated to take a major hit this summer, the State's deficit will be scary bad.

Given all of this, I don't think any capital projects will be funded for years to come.

LanderPoke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:34 pm

ZapPoke wrote: ↑Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:45 pm

HomeOnTheRange wrote: ↑Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:17 am

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:24 amThe State is running a $300 million dollar deficit. Let that sink in!

if only the state were making serious efforts to diversify its economy with major investments in renewable energy resources, which are abundant in the state, instead of trying like heck to keep fossil fuels the driving force

Renewable energy is a blight that will wreck the planet. Those damned wind farms are destroying the view shed. Shirley Basin used to be beautiful until they filled it with ugly windmills that kill hundreds of birds.

A wind or solar farm stretching to the horizon can be replaced by a handful of gas powered generators the size of a semi.

One wind turbine requires 900 tons of steel, 2500 tons of concrete and 45 tons of non recyclable plastic (which requires crude oil). Solar requires even more cement, steel and glass. Production of concrete is one of the biggest sources of carbon dioxide.

Building enough wind turbines to provide half the world’s electricity would require two billion tons of coal to make the steel and two billion barrels of oil to make the composite blades. And how do you responsibly dispose of all this stuff when the turbine reaches the end of its useful life. Renewable energy indeed!

It’s all just a “feel good” proposition exploited by cronies of the politicians who advocate for it.

+1.I loathe wind and solar. It's truly a blight and is nothing more than mindless virtue signaling

Actual mechanical engineer here...why demonize any particular form of energy? I understand that certain types of energy production/consumption have been greatly politicized. That politicization has nothing to do with the real world drawbacks/advantages of any particular source. There is a real cost-benefit case to be made for a decentralized, multi-mode energy system in the U.S. No reasonable power engineer is going to take a certain method of power production out of their toolbox. At the same time...no reasonable power engineer is going to dogmatically push for single source production at all costs. If somebody is doing either of those things it reveals a level of political/social pressure that is going to ultimately raise costs and inefficiency.

This is not to say that, given the specifics of a unique area, there aren't "bad" ways to go about energy production. We should not be trying to fit round pegs into square holes. Embedded costs of any energy source that can be used at scale is really huge. This sort of reminds me of the NISP reservoir debate going on here in northern Colorado. There is a real problem of increasing strain on the water supply that the NISP designers are trying to address. I've been following the debate around the project and the side that does not want it to go forward has some really good arguments for not doing it based on the ecological and monetary costs. The problem is that if projections of population and water consumption are correct, and nobody is really debating them, something will have to be done. The same thing is playing out in the energy sector...no-body "knows" the future but you still have to make projections and plans for 10, 20, 30+ years down the road.

I'm pretty sure it's a bad idea to try and go wholesale into some sort of "green" energy economy right now. The tech is not there...the costs would be too high. But we would be really making a mistake if we are not testing any other methods at scale. It's also a bad idea for a government to abdicate it's position to encourage investment and research energy to solely "free" market directed entity's. Is it perfect? No. Can it be captured by people looking to profit inappropriately? Yes.

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:31 pm

Lost Poke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:40 am Well, this isn't good news...

https://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/l ... 2c00e.html

Things have become much worse. Governor suggests now that the legislature will need to reconvene for a 'special legislative session' due to the massive funding shortfall that was not anticipated in the budget which was just recently completed. With oil prices collapse to $20/bbl and the tourism industry slated to take a major hit this summer, the State's deficit will be scary bad.

Given all of this, I don't think any capital projects will be funded for years to come.

I would think this is the case with every single state now.

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:31 pm

Lost Poke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:40 am Well, this isn't good news...

https://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/l ... 2c00e.html

Things have become much worse. Governor suggests now that the legislature will need to reconvene for a 'special legislative session' due to the massive funding shortfall that was not anticipated in the budget which was just recently completed. With oil prices collapse to $20/bbl and the tourism industry slated to take a major hit this summer, the State's deficit will be scary bad.

Given all of this, I don't think any capital projects will be funded for years to come.

Yeah, that $20 number is scary. Down in here in CO, there is a lot of worry about shale operators and their debt loads - many of them have bonds and credit payments coming due this year and they won't have the cash, or obtain additonal credit, to meet those obligations. It could really be a bloodbath.

LanderPoke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:25 am

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:31 pm

Lost Poke wrote: ↑Wed Mar 18, 2020 6:40 am Well, this isn't good news...

https://www.laramieboomerang.com/news/l ... 2c00e.html

Things have become much worse. Governor suggests now that the legislature will need to reconvene for a 'special legislative session' due to the massive funding shortfall that was not anticipated in the budget which was just recently completed. With oil prices collapse to $20/bbl and the tourism industry slated to take a major hit this summer, the State's deficit will be scary bad.

Given all of this, I don't think any capital projects will be funded for years to come.

I would think this is the case with every single state now.

The oil down turn is independent of the virus.

And honestly, while an epidemic certainly is not what I had in mind, the lack of developing more economically in Wyoming is just going to hurt even more as time goes on. Relying on the old "Boom & Bust" thing needs to be left behind. And already, coal is going the way of the dodo, with more plants closing all the time (worldwide at that), hampering ourselves like a number of places in say, West Virginia and Pennsylvania to spite our nose, is stupid.

fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:53 pm
The oil down turn is independent of the virus.

And honestly, while an epidemic certainly is not what I had in mind, the lack of developing more economically in Wyoming is just going to hurt even more as time goes on. Relying on the old "Boom & Bust" thing needs to be left behind. And already, coal is going the way of the dodo, with more plants closing all the time (worldwide at that), hampering ourselves like a number of places in say, West Virginia and Pennsylvania to spite our nose, is stupid.

No it isn't. The oil downturn is absolutely a result of the coronavirus pandemic.

Just in March, coronavirus had a 25% impact on total global bpd oil demand and it is expected to grow in April/May. There is no precedent for that (not even the Middle East oil embargo of 1973). The coronavirus gave Saudi Arabia and Russia the opportunity to accomplish its goals: sink US shale and gather larger market shares. Without the coronavrius pandemic, it just isn't possible to flood the market with enough oil to sink US shale as Saudi Arabia learned in 2014/2015 (i.e. Saudi and Russia don't have enough spare capacity to achieve those means in normal operating conditions without demand limitation).