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WyoGeezer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:52 pm Because I left Wyoming for awhile to teach Third Grade in a little town in northern Nevada, I was gone for the entire Joe Tiller regime, and I didn't see many Cowboy games on TV. My sister, who was using my season tickets at The War, sent me a couple of videos and tried to tell me what was happening, but essentially, I was in the dark. My sister did tell me, however, that the fans were really hard on Tiller, and some of you guys have said the same thing. My recollection of THE SAFETY was that Tiller already had the job at Purdue, was sick of the incessant criticism from Cowboy fans, and didn't want to prepare for a bowl game. He wanted OUT of Laramie and wanted to begin his new opportunity. So ... He simply THREW THE GAME. As I recall, we were ahead by five points, with a fourth down inside our own ten yard line. Punting the ball would have required byu to score a touchdown to win. But a safety would put byu down by only three points. Tiller knew that scoring a field goal to tie was much easier than scoring a touchdown to win. Nothing was guaranteed, of course, but Tiller was well-aware of byu's ability to move the ball and score. A touchdown was possible, but a field goal was very likely. ... and overtime would favor byu. Ironically, a friend from Laramie was teaching at my school in that same little town, and we were watching the game on TV together. When the punter took the safety, we both shouted THAT SOB IS THROWING THE GAME! I haven't changed my mind. Was Tiller a traitor, or were Cowboy fans just stupid? I have no opinion, but maybe you do.

bullbugle307 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:16 pm Nebraska and AF both had/have much more diverse play calling when they run the ball that much. They didn't make it so easy for the defense to guess what was coming. They hand the ball to the FB. They toss it outside. They run the option etc. Vigen is the most predictable play caller I've ever seen. I've gotta think defensive coordinators love playing Wyoming. As long as they have the bodies to match up (and all the above average teams do), they don't have to guess much about what we're going to do

WyoGeezer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:53 pm Because I left Wyoming for awhile to teach Third Grade in a little town in northern Nevada, I was gone for the entire Joe Tiller regime, and I didn't see many Cowboy games on TV. My sister, who was using my season tickets at The War, sent me a couple of videos and tried to tell me what was happening, but essentially, I was in the dark. My sister did tell me, however, that the fans were really hard on Tiller, and some of you guys have said the same thing. My recollection of THE SAFETY was that Tiller already had the job at Purdue, was sick of the incessant criticism from Cowboy fans, and didn't want to prepare for a bowl game. He wanted OUT of Laramie and wanted to begin his new opportunity. So ... He simply THREW THE GAME. As I recall, we were ahead by five points, with a fourth down inside our own ten yard line. Punting the ball would have required byu to score a touchdown to win. But a safety would put byu down by only three points. Tiller knew that scoring a field goal to tie was much easier than scoring a touchdown to win. Nothing was guaranteed, of course, but Tiller was well-aware of byu's ability to move the ball and score. A touchdown was possible, but a field goal was very likely. ... and overtime would favor byu. Ironically, a friend from Laramie was teaching at my school in that same little town, and we were watching the game on TV together. When the punter took the safety, we both shouted THAT SOB IS THROWING THE GAME! I haven't changed my mind. Was Tiller a traitor, or were Cowboy fans just stupid? I have no opinion, but maybe you do.

Old-Bull wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:14 pm

WyoGeezer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:53 pm Because I left Wyoming for awhile to teach Third Grade in a little town in northern Nevada, I was gone for the entire Joe Tiller regime, and I didn't see many Cowboy games on TV. My sister, who was using my season tickets at The War, sent me a couple of videos and tried to tell me what was happening, but essentially, I was in the dark. My sister did tell me, however, that the fans were really hard on Tiller, and some of you guys have said the same thing. My recollection of THE SAFETY was that Tiller already had the job at Purdue, was sick of the incessant criticism from Cowboy fans, and didn't want to prepare for a bowl game. He wanted OUT of Laramie and wanted to begin his new opportunity. So ... He simply THREW THE GAME. As I recall, we were ahead by five points, with a fourth down inside our own ten yard line. Punting the ball would have required byu to score a touchdown to win. But a safety would put byu down by only three points. Tiller knew that scoring a field goal to tie was much easier than scoring a touchdown to win. Nothing was guaranteed, of course, but Tiller was well-aware of byu's ability to move the ball and score. A touchdown was possible, but a field goal was very likely. ... and overtime would favor byu. Ironically, a friend from Laramie was teaching at my school in that same little town, and we were watching the game on TV together. When the punter took the safety, we both shouted THAT SOB IS THROWING THE GAME! I haven't changed my mind. Was Tiller a traitor, or were Cowboy fans just stupid? I have no opinion, but maybe you do.

I thought it had more to do with the division in the fan base and the success of the previous coach. There were a lot of Cowboy fans that wanted to see Del Wight named as head coach. They never liked Tiller. His first season taking over from Roach he was 4-6-1 which was shocking after all the success we had under Roach. He followed that up with 5-7, 8-4(Copper Bowl blow-out), 6-6, 6-5, and then the infamous 10-2 season when he took the bad safety.


Regardless, Bohl is the only coach to get us fighting for a MWC championship since Roach.

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:21 pm

Old-Bull wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:14 pm

WyoGeezer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:53 pm Because I left Wyoming for awhile to teach Third Grade in a little town in northern Nevada, I was gone for the entire Joe Tiller regime, and I didn't see many Cowboy games on TV. My sister, who was using my season tickets at The War, sent me a couple of videos and tried to tell me what was happening, but essentially, I was in the dark. My sister did tell me, however, that the fans were really hard on Tiller, and some of you guys have said the same thing. My recollection of THE SAFETY was that Tiller already had the job at Purdue, was sick of the incessant criticism from Cowboy fans, and didn't want to prepare for a bowl game. He wanted OUT of Laramie and wanted to begin his new opportunity. So ... He simply THREW THE GAME. As I recall, we were ahead by five points, with a fourth down inside our own ten yard line. Punting the ball would have required byu to score a touchdown to win. But a safety would put byu down by only three points. Tiller knew that scoring a field goal to tie was much easier than scoring a touchdown to win. Nothing was guaranteed, of course, but Tiller was well-aware of byu's ability to move the ball and score. A touchdown was possible, but a field goal was very likely. ... and overtime would favor byu. Ironically, a friend from Laramie was teaching at my school in that same little town, and we were watching the game on TV together. When the punter took the safety, we both shouted THAT SOB IS THROWING THE GAME! I haven't changed my mind. Was Tiller a traitor, or were Cowboy fans just stupid? I have no opinion, but maybe you do.

I thought it had more to do with the division in the fan base and the success of the previous coach. There were a lot of Cowboy fans that wanted to see Del Wight named as head coach. They never liked Tiller. His first season taking over from Roach he was 4-6-1 which was shocking after all the success we had under Roach. He followed that up with 5-7, 8-4(Copper Bowl blow-out), 6-6, 6-5, and then the infamous 10-2 season when he took the bad safety.


Regardless, Bohl is the only coach to get us fighting for a MWC championship since Roach.

This post makes no sense. Bohl is the only coach to have Wyoming anywhere close to a MWC championship. But if you are talking about the WAC too, the safety under Tiller was in the WAC Championship game.

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:39 pm NDSU has another QB near the top of the draft. That makes 2. Coach or ?

Allen has made strides without Vigen coaching him and very little progress with Vigen. At very minimum, a QB coach could help substantially. I don't believe Vigen knows how to develop QBs. I also don't think Vigen is creative enough to make the offense work with an adequate college QB. Thus, I agree that the offense is limited without a top flight, NFL-level QB.

I also believe that accuracy can only be achieved to the level that mechanics can correct. Allen made strides because his mechanics improved with coaching that knew what proper mechanics were. Accuracy beyond mechanics can't be taught.

Old-Bull wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:24 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:39 pm NDSU has another QB near the top of the draft. That makes 2. Coach or ?

Allen has made strides without Vigen coaching him and very little progress with Vigen. At very minimum, a QB coach could help substantially. I don't believe Vigen knows how to develop QBs. I also don't think Vigen is creative enough to make the offense work with an adequate college QB. Thus, I agree that the offense is limited without a top flight, NFL-level QB.

I also believe that accuracy can only be achieved to the level that mechanics can correct. Allen made strides because his mechanics improved with coaching that knew what proper mechanics were. Accuracy beyond mechanics can't be taught.

You have to give Vigen and Bohl credit for identifying guys with the skills to succeed and then making them at the very least, physically ready to play in the NFL. They did it twice. It's not an accident. They're sending guys to the league that have stuck in the league and became good passing quarterbacks in the NFL after playing in a run heavy offense. Osbornes teams didn't do that.

This years offense is scoring plenty of points. So did the team we had with Allen. The problem with those teams was defense.

It would be nice if it were prettier, but if you're scoring 30 points a game, you should be beating CSU and Nevada. That's a defensive issue and that is because almost our entire defensive line is at home watching their teammates play football on t.v.

Old-Bull wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:04 pm

bullbugle307 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:16 pm Nebraska and AF both had/have much more diverse play calling when they run the ball that much. They didn't make it so easy for the defense to guess what was coming. They hand the ball to the FB. They toss it outside. They run the option etc. Vigen is the most predictable play caller I've ever seen. I've gotta think defensive coordinators love playing Wyoming. As long as they have the bodies to match up (and all the above average teams do), they don't have to guess much about what we're going to do

Agreed. We pass when it's obvious we're going to pass.

PokeNer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:28 pm

Old-Bull wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:24 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:39 pm NDSU has another QB near the top of the draft. That makes 2. Coach or ?

Allen has made strides without Vigen coaching him and very little progress with Vigen. At very minimum, a QB coach could help substantially. I don't believe Vigen knows how to develop QBs. I also don't think Vigen is creative enough to make the offense work with an adequate college QB. Thus, I agree that the offense is limited without a top flight, NFL-level QB.

I also believe that accuracy can only be achieved to the level that mechanics can correct. Allen made strides because his mechanics improved with coaching that knew what proper mechanics were. Accuracy beyond mechanics can't be taught.

You have to give Vigen and Bohl credit for identifying guys with the skills to succeed and then making them at the very least, physically ready to play in the NFL. They did it twice. It's not an accident. They're sending guys to the league that have stuck in the league and became good passing quarterbacks in the NFL after playing in a run heavy offense. Osbornes teams didn't do that.

This years offense is scoring plenty of points. So did the team we had with Allen. The problem with those teams was defense.

It would be nice if it were prettier, but if you're scoring 30 points a game, you should be beating CSU and Nevada. That's a defensive issue and that is because almost our entire defensive line is at home watching their teammates play football on t.v.

Is it though? The offense spotted the lambs 14 points to start the game and continued to do nothing to get back in the game until it was too late. The offense did jack against Nevada for 3.5 quarters, and the D held long enough to allow the offense to crawl back once dingbat opened up the playbook.

We have had great defenses the last three years which would have been even better with better offensive production. We knew we were going to have a drop off on the defensive side of the ball, even before the opt outs. The answer was experience at QB, a deep and talented O line, great RBs, and theoretically high grading at the receiver spot. In reality it's the same ole song and dance, and the D doesn't have the guys to carry the team anymore.

Poke in New England wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:15 am

PokeNer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:28 pm

Old-Bull wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 6:24 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:39 pm NDSU has another QB near the top of the draft. That makes 2. Coach or ?

Allen has made strides without Vigen coaching him and very little progress with Vigen. At very minimum, a QB coach could help substantially. I don't believe Vigen knows how to develop QBs. I also don't think Vigen is creative enough to make the offense work with an adequate college QB. Thus, I agree that the offense is limited without a top flight, NFL-level QB.

I also believe that accuracy can only be achieved to the level that mechanics can correct. Allen made strides because his mechanics improved with coaching that knew what proper mechanics were. Accuracy beyond mechanics can't be taught.

You have to give Vigen and Bohl credit for identifying guys with the skills to succeed and then making them at the very least, physically ready to play in the NFL. They did it twice. It's not an accident. They're sending guys to the league that have stuck in the league and became good passing quarterbacks in the NFL after playing in a run heavy offense. Osbornes teams didn't do that.

This years offense is scoring plenty of points. So did the team we had with Allen. The problem with those teams was defense.

It would be nice if it were prettier, but if you're scoring 30 points a game, you should be beating CSU and Nevada. That's a defensive issue and that is because almost our entire defensive line is at home watching their teammates play football on t.v.

Is it though? The offense spotted the lambs 14 points to start the game and continued to do nothing to get back in the game until it was too late. The offense did jack against Nevada for 3.5 quarters, and the D held long enough to allow the offense to crawl back once dingbat opened up the playbook.

We have had great defenses the last three years which would have been even better with better offensive production. We knew we were going to have a drop off on the defensive side of the ball, even before the opt outs. The answer was experience at QB, a deep and talented O line, great RBs, and theoretically high grading at the receiver spot. In reality it's the same ole song and dance, and the D doesn't have the guys to carry the team anymore.

It would be pretty frustrating to be a defensive player over the past few years and catch blame for giving up scores and chunk plays while the offense consistently hands the ball back to the other offense for 3 quarters or more before trying something new. The EXACT same arguments were made last season when we lost close games in the EXACT same way. The Nevada loss was near identical to like 3 of the losses last season, when people (including Bohl) said "well we didn't get a stop when we needed to" meanwhile the offense completes single digit passes and can't convert a 3rd and long to save its life. Same ole song and dance, as you say.

McPeachy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:55 am Levi has a rough game passing (decent game rushing) - and all of a sudden he is another Dax Crum as far as this board sees things. Ridiculous.