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PokeNer
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bullbugle307 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:51 pm Bullbugle... You mistake my message. PokeNer addressed it. I don't share PoneNer's opinion of Bohl's intentions for the direction of the team but I get what he saying. I just can't see a future where Bohl does something different offensively. Again, this is year 7. If we get Bohl for anther 7 years, we will get different versions (hopefully 2016 level and better) of this style but the spots on this lepeord aren't going to change.
To be fair, I'm not expecting Bohl to change the offense. I could, with very little potential, see him move Vigen to another role (no idea what) and bring someone in that run THIS offense more effectively.

This offense doesn't work. We're a run first, power team that does it out of the shotgun and shows RPO every play. However, everyone knows there is no pass or other option. If he wants to completely abandon the pass game, you need to go full in like AF or NM and throw host a couple times a game when the D is off guard.

We had 91 passing yards against one of the worst passing D's in the country. 58 of that was a pass in name only, Neyors play was a run that just counted as a pass. Beerup had 18 on his one completion. Essentials, WE GOT 15 YARDS OF PASSING PRODUCTION FROM OUR STARTER IN NEARLY 4 FULL QUARTERS.

I hope there is enough chatter to make Bohl/Burmsn realize they are in for some major most revenues and need to make a change. They are losing the fan base.
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CNPOKE
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Anyone have win/loss % to some of previous head coaches at WY. Don’t think have taken giant leap forward under Bohl. Tom Osborne 101 doesn’t work in this day and age!!!
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Poke in New England
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CNPOKE wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:27 am Anyone have win/loss % to some of previous head coaches at WY. Don’t think have taken giant leap forward under Bohl. Tom Osborne 101 doesn’t work in this day and age!!!
Roach 35-15 (.700)
Tiller 39-30-1 (.564)
Dimel 23-12 (.657)
Koenning 5-29 (.147)
Glenn 30-41 (.423)
Christensen 27-35 (.435)
Bohl 38-43 (.469)
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Wyokie
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Poke in New England wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:59 am
CNPOKE wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:27 am Anyone have win/loss % to some of previous head coaches at WY. Don’t think have taken giant leap forward under Bohl. Tom Osborne 101 doesn’t work in this day and age!!!
Roach 35-15 (.700)
Tiller 39-30-1 (.564)
Dimel 23-12 (.657)
Koenning 5-29 (.147)
Glenn 30-41 (.423)
Christensen 27-35 (.435)
Bohl 38-43 (.469)
I miss the Roach Era.
I want CHAMPIONSHIPS not chicken Sh#t! And we're getting chicken Sh#t!!!!!!!!!!!
CNPOKE
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Thanks guys for providing these stats! So my question would be, what is so special about Bohl?? Championships -No, MW dominance - No. And we are paying him how much? If you think it will get better, Dream On 😂
ragtimejoe1
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I'd like to see record broken out by strength of opponent. A loss against a T10 TCU team is not the same as a loss to bottom 10 NM. The same can be said for wins.
"There's always excuses for a sports program not winning or academic program not succeeding. And it's not that the excuses aren't true; it's that they aren't sufficient," --Sternberg
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Asmodeanreborn
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I'd like to see a QB coach who actually improves the throwing of our QBs. It's not like the throws last night were right on target - even the TE screen forced an acrobatic 1-hand catch to be completed, and multiple throws were behind receivers, too tall, too long, or hit the ground because they were several feet short. I think there was honestly just one or two bad receiver plays - one of them just happens to stand out because it was on a third down where a catch would've sealed a chip shot field goal for the win.

I don't blame Beerup - he hasn't had much practice with the team, and he got put into a really rough spot... but Levi really should be a lot better than he is, especially given how successful he was as a pro style guy in high school.
307bball
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Asmodeanreborn wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 11:45 am I'd like to see a QB coach who actually improves the throwing of our QBs. It's not like the throws last night were right on target - even the TE screen forced an acrobatic 1-hand catch to be completed, and multiple throws were behind receivers, too tall, too long, or hit the ground because they were several feet short. I think there was honestly just one or two bad receiver plays - one of them just happens to stand out because it was on a third down where a catch would've sealed a chip shot field goal for the win.

I don't blame Beerup - he hasn't had much practice with the team, and he got put into a really rough spot... but Levi really should be a lot better than he is, especially given how successful he was as a pro style guy in high school.
Once again...it has to be pointed out that qb's do not get better at throwing. The only time that has ever happened was JA...And there are a lot of factors that statheads point to that it is not JA's throwing that has improved...rather it has more to do with external factors. This is, of course, another black eye for the coaches since, if true, that would mean that the success of JA was actually hindered by the staff. Now, I don't think that to be literally true but I do not hold out hope that any coach is going to make somebody a better thrower of the football.
bullbugle307
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307bball wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:00 am
PokeNer wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:13 am
bullbugle307 wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:07 am
307bball wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:53 pm
bullbugle307 wrote: Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:51 pm If Bohl doesn't make major changes on offense this year, I'm done. I'm serious. This is a joke. We're the laughing stock of NCAA football tonight. Let that sink in.
Do we have a shred...a single shred of evidence that this is possible?
Evidence? We just lost to a winless team with the worst defense in the MW, which is saying a lot. They were on their 5th string QB. And they haven't won a conference game in two years!

You show me one team that Sh#t the bed worse this week than we just did and I'll retract my claim.
The only evidence that gives me even a glimmer of hope, is Bohl was finally critical of the offense in the off-season and said he needed more. He wanted the offense opened up in the bowl game and they did. Now we've regressed even further. I think the 2014/15 offenses were better than this.

I probably am looking through brown and gold glasses when I think there's a sliver of a chance, but I want to cheer this team on in the future. I just can't with the current offense.
Bullbugle... You mistake my message. PokeNer addressed it. I don't share PoneNer's opinion of Bohl's intentions for the direction of the team but I get what he saying. I just can't see a future where Bohl does something different offensively. Again, this is year 7. If we get Bohl for anther 7 years, we will get different versions (hopefully 2016 level and better) of this style but the spots on this lepeord aren't going to change.
I did misunderstand. My bad. To be clear, I don't really expect Bohl to change the offense. But he needs to make changes at OC, QB coach, and recievers coach.
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.

Hunter S. Thompson
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Bring back Manny Matsakis and the Triple Shoot offense!
I'm good for 3!
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Asmodeanreborn
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307bball wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:28 pm Once again...it has to be pointed out that qb's do not get better at throwing. The only time that has ever happened was JA...And there are a lot of factors that statheads point to that it is not JA's throwing that has improved...rather it has more to do with external factors. This is, of course, another black eye for the coaches since, if true, that would mean that the success of JA was actually hindered by the staff. Now, I don't think that to be literally true but I do not hold out hope that any coach is going to make somebody a better thrower of the football.
It is indeed rare that QBs improve their throwing significantly between college and the NFL, but there is ample evidence that QBs do get better at throwing _during_ college.

Just to look at where you might have gotten it from that QBs don't improve, I found an article that compared completion percentages of QBs from high school to college to show they had the same average when averaged over all players... in two completely different leagues, with completely different teams, and ignoring quality of competition.

Meanwhile, if you instead look at QBs and their completion percentages over time in college with the SAME team, a different story is presented. The very article who compared high school and college even points out that "Lock’s completion percentage in college improved from 49.0 to 54.6 to 57.8 to 62.9. Stafford’s improved from 52.7 to 55.7 to 61.4." Unfortunately then it averaged those out can compared it to their high school numbers again to prove they didn't improve...

You can look at current college QBs too... here's the current NCAA leaderboard and how much they have improved from their first year of college:
Dillon Gabriel - UCF: 2.4% (2 years)
Kyle Trask - FLA: 7.8% (3 years)
Mac Jones - ALA: 6.9% (2 years... didn't start enough his first year, or this would be 40%+)
Shane Buechele - SMU: 5% (5 years, one of which he got injured and barely played)
Sam Howell - UNC: 7.4% (2 years)
Zach Wilson - BYU: 7.1% (3 years)
Brady White - MEM: 8.8% (4 years)
Matt Corrall - MISS: 23.9% (2 years)... so this is a ridiculous outlier.
Phil Jurkovec - BC: Only had 15 attempts before this year.
Spencer Rattler - OU: Only 11 attempts before this year.

Do o-lines and receiver talent matter? Of course it does... but that changes a lot less year to year than between high school and college.

Heck, if you want to look outside of the top of NCAA, how about in our own conference?
Carson Strong - NEV: 5.4% (2 years)
Chevan Cordeiro - HAW: 4.8% (2 years)
Jake Haener - FRES: only 13 attempts before this year
Nick Starkel - SJSU: 6.2% (3 years plus one injured)
Levi Williams - Only had 39 attempts before this season

Sadly, that's the top 5 due to injuries and cancellations. Still, the trend continues. Useless exercise? I don't know, but it does seem like the trend is that QBs who start multiple years in college tend to improve their completion percentages. Nothing says that can't/won't happen with ours.
307bball
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Asmodeanreborn wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 8:09 pm
307bball wrote: Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:28 pm Once again...it has to be pointed out that qb's do not get better at throwing. The only time that has ever happened was JA...And there are a lot of factors that statheads point to that it is not JA's throwing that has improved...rather it has more to do with external factors. This is, of course, another black eye for the coaches since, if true, that would mean that the success of JA was actually hindered by the staff. Now, I don't think that to be literally true but I do not hold out hope that any coach is going to make somebody a better thrower of the football.
It is indeed rare that QBs improve their throwing significantly between college and the NFL, but there is ample evidence that QBs do get better at throwing _during_ college.

Just to look at where you might have gotten it from that QBs don't improve, I found an article that compared completion percentages of QBs from high school to college to show they had the same average when averaged over all players... in two completely different leagues, with completely different teams, and ignoring quality of competition.

Meanwhile, if you instead look at QBs and their completion percentages over time in college with the SAME team, a different story is presented. The very article who compared high school and college even points out that "Lock’s completion percentage in college improved from 49.0 to 54.6 to 57.8 to 62.9. Stafford’s improved from 52.7 to 55.7 to 61.4." Unfortunately then it averaged those out can compared it to their high school numbers again to prove they didn't improve...

You can look at current college QBs too... here's the current NCAA leaderboard and how much they have improved from their first year of college:
Dillon Gabriel - UCF: 2.4% (2 years)
Kyle Trask - FLA: 7.8% (3 years)
Mac Jones - ALA: 6.9% (2 years... didn't start enough his first year, or this would be 40%+)
Shane Buechele - SMU: 5% (5 years, one of which he got injured and barely played)
Sam Howell - UNC: 7.4% (2 years)
Zach Wilson - BYU: 7.1% (3 years)
Brady White - MEM: 8.8% (4 years)
Matt Corrall - MISS: 23.9% (2 years)... so this is a ridiculous outlier.
Phil Jurkovec - BC: Only had 15 attempts before this year.
Spencer Rattler - OU: Only 11 attempts before this year.

Do o-lines and receiver talent matter? Of course it does... but that changes a lot less year to year than between high school and college.

Heck, if you want to look outside of the top of NCAA, how about in our own conference?
Carson Strong - NEV: 5.4% (2 years)
Chevan Cordeiro - HAW: 4.8% (2 years)
Jake Haener - FRES: only 13 attempts before this year
Nick Starkel - SJSU: 6.2% (3 years plus one injured)
Levi Williams - Only had 39 attempts before this season

Sadly, that's the top 5 due to injuries and cancellations. Still, the trend continues. Useless exercise? I don't know, but it does seem like the trend is that QBs who start multiple years in college tend to improve their completion percentages. Nothing says that can't/won't happen with ours.
That is good stuff Asmodeanreborn. The fact that multiple year starters tend to improve is not something I'm addressing with my point about guys becoming better "throwers". My guess is that, in general, most college guys who start for multiple seasons are probably getting pretty close to the maximum out of whatever natural ability they have. Josh Allen's completion percentage was low and that is such a huge predictor of future nfl success that teams and media doubted him.... But not everybody. People who did the real scouting on him see what all of us wyoming fans saw. The low completion percentage was a function of the system that Bohl runs coupled with a dip in wide reciever talent during his senior year. Plug in the greatest passing college qb ever into wyoming during Josh's senior season and it's probably better that Josh did... But I don't it would be by much.

All this to say... Anybody that looks at Josh at wyoming and does not see progression is just not looking. Heck even chambers seemed to be improving as a qb, even as his passing ability remains iffy. Thankfully, the difficulty in developing as a "thrower" does not keep guys from improving from year to year. The development of a college quarterback over a college career should not be confused with becoming a better "thrower".... And that, ultimately, is what the pros are trying to find. Heck, so many great college QBs could not hack it because the arm talent required in the nfl is off the charts.
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