National Chaos

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ragtimejoe1
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If you cling to one party or the other and lay blame at the feet of one party or the other, YOU are the problem.

This is getting ridiculous and I wonder how far it ends up going?
"There's always excuses for a sports program not winning or academic program not succeeding. And it's not that the excuses aren't true; it's that they aren't sufficient," --Sternberg
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fromolwyoming
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Just gonna say; it wasn't Democrats, Libertarians, or Independents that decided to storm the Capital as anti-American insurrectionists looking to murder the elected leaders (GOP or Demo) that assaulted, beat, even murdered the police stationed there to protect the Capitol. And I'm not saying all Republicans support it (in fact, it seems quite a few were horrified by what happened, and it even shook a lot of the electorate to the point of turning on him).

The people to blame are obvious; it was those that stormed the building, and those that incited it in the first place.
ragtimejoe1
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If you think the national chaos is a result of one event, 1 month, or even 6 months, you are part of the problem.

If you think the national chaos is the fault of 1 party, you are part of the problem.

Term limits, abolishing the parties, a loser pays system in lawsuits, more simplified flat taxes would go a long ways (i.e. remove the ability to use tax as legislative tools), and constraining annual deficit to 0 without 2/3 vote from Senate to go above that. The budget vote is restricted to a single bill; no pork.
"There's always excuses for a sports program not winning or academic program not succeeding. And it's not that the excuses aren't true; it's that they aren't sufficient," --Sternberg
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LanderPoke
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:45 am If you think the national chaos is a result of one event, 1 month, or even 6 months, you are part of the problem.

If you think the national chaos is the fault of 1 party, you are part of the problem.

Term limits, abolishing the parties, a loser pays system in lawsuits, more simplified flat taxes would go a long ways (i.e. remove the ability to use tax as legislative tools), and constraining annual deficit to 0 without 2/3 vote from Senate to go above that. The budget vote is restricted to a single bill; no pork.
Yes. Term limits are severely needed. Crooks and dishonest people are allowed to stay in the house and senate forever make illicit relationships and make dirty money. Look no further than the Biden, Bush, Cheney and Clinton families. Can you get any slimier??? The whole premise of DC hating the Trumps is they were outsiders and wanted peace and to end the endless foreign wars and put an end to that nonsense. That was unacceptable to the swamp and national defense cartel and industrial military complex. The swampiest corners of the swamp. People's $$$$ was at stake. Sh#t gets real when you start messing with people's money. That's when you get pee pee golden showers, Russian collusion, sham impeachments and democrats trying to ruin Supreme Justice nominees' lives just because trump nominated them.

What happened at the capital was terrible and should not ever happen. unacceptable. Trump ruined his legacy, which is unfortunate, because his first three years in office were excellent. Not sure where the republican party goes from here.
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alyssa
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That was fake MAGA supporters doing bad things at the WH. Many of them have already been arrested (recorded) with ANTIFA, BLM, etc. groups destroying other parts of the US. They were (once again) bussed in.
I have three family members that live in D.C. that work in law and politics.

It's globalists against YOU (THE PEOPLE) in terms of the BS out there.
Be smart and safe.
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Asmodeanreborn
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alyssa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:44 pm That was fake MAGA supporters doing bad things at the WH. Many of them have already been arrested (recorded) with ANTIFA, BLM, etc. groups destroying other parts of the US. They were (once again) bussed in.
I have three family members that live in D.C. that work in law and politics.

It's globalists against YOU (THE PEOPLE) in terms of the BS out there.
Be smart and safe.
When making these types of statements, it would be neat if you actually gave names of said arrested BLMers and antifa people, especially considering that it would at least somewhat balance out the very long list of QAnon morons (like Chansley), elected GOP officials (like Evans, WV), White Power people (like Proud Boy Nick Ochs), and even a few police officers.

I'm sure people like Fuentes and Baked Alaska have spent years at Trump rallies and online, spewing hatred and crap, only to have been antifa and BLM all along.
ragtimejoe1
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The media and our politicians have successfully radicalized the population. It's astonishing. They've successfully pitted millions against each other and galvanized their viewpoints to 1 of 2 ideologies. This thread is a perfect example. The media and our politicians have successfully sold the philosophy that the other guy is wrong so our actions are justified. The debate endlessly sways back and forth between allegations of wrongdoing. Endless victimhood.

At some point US citizens need to realize that politicians and media have brainwashed the masses and manufactured this division. They have conditioned you. If you try, you'll see endless hypocrisy and dysfunction on both sides.

The 2 major national parties and their corresponding media are the treasonous traitors robbing us of at minimum the pursuit of happiness if not also life and liberty. The people are merely pawns in echo chambers.

For the first time in my life, I understand at least a little how Hitler did what he did. I obviously have read about it, but I now partially understand it.
"There's always excuses for a sports program not winning or academic program not succeeding. And it's not that the excuses aren't true; it's that they aren't sufficient," --Sternberg
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Wyokie
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:48 am For the first time in my life, I understand at least a little how Hitler did what he did. I obviously have read about it, but I now partially understand it.
History DOES have a nasty way of repeating itself. Which begs the question...which group of people ends up in camps like Heart Mountain Internment Camp near Cody during WWII? You know that's going to happen eventually.
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Asmodeanreborn
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Demonizing other groups always has the potential to lead to tragedy. I've seen my father-in-law's church go from focused on "reading and studying the Bible, chapter by chapter, verse by verse" to being a political tool with several pastors of large churches now defending everything Trump's done as if he was the second coming. It's been a disturbing transformation, as I would like churches I go to to focus on the actual Jesus.

Obviously this isn't just on the right... seeing the morons thinking a "revolution" will somehow bring about a society where everybody gets their "fair share" is mindboggling. Somehow the "working class" of America rising up and toppling the "ruling class" will end up different from all other recent revolutions where you just got unscrupulous turds taking power and made the situation worse than ever. Turns out, stability that might not be "optimal" is still an order of magnitude better for almost everybody than revolution and chaos.

I think you have a point with media being a large part of this, and it's insanely annoying. There's no "truth in media" restrictions anymore, and there haven't been for a long time. Outright lying and making crazy statements has no consequences anymore, and many people also pass it off as "entertainment" that "people know it shouldn't be taken for truth," when obviously most people don't have the capacity to tell the difference. Actual news shows on CNN and Fox generally stick to not making crap up, but they also leave out important details to further incense their viewers. Journalism is about generating clicks now rather than accurately portraying events (because real journalism is way more expensive than taking things out of context from another source).

Is there a way out of this weird cycle where people just get more and more violent? I don't know... start with consequences for those threatening and hurting others - regardless of whether they're Proud Boys or antifa. Instead of just tossing them into prison where they can join whichever extremist groups and then come out even more broken after serving their sentence, though, maybe find a way to make these people do good? Not that I have a solution to this.
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Asmodeanreborn
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Guess some churches have it even worse:
https://religionunplugged.com/news/2021 ... mp-victory

Honestly, churches need to stay the hell away from overall politics. Yes, do speak out against abortion, argue for funds for soup kitchens and whatever, but if you start telling your congregation who to vote for and that God has told you who's going to win, then you better be prepared to start paying taxes as you've left actual religion behind and now you're just another weird propaganda channel.
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Wyokie
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Asmodeanreborn wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:32 am Guess some churches have it even worse:
https://religionunplugged.com/news/2021 ... mp-victory

Honestly, churches need to stay the hell away from overall politics. Yes, do speak out against abortion, argue for funds for soup kitchens and whatever, but if you start telling your congregation who to vote for and that God has told you who's going to win, then you better be prepared to start paying taxes as you've left actual religion behind and now you're just another weird propaganda channel.
Part of why I loathe religion. Proud to be atheist.
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laxwyo
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Asmodeanreborn wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:45 pm
alyssa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:44 pm That was fake MAGA supporters doing bad things at the WH. Many of them have already been arrested (recorded) with ANTIFA, BLM, etc. groups destroying other parts of the US. They were (once again) bussed in.
I have three family members that live in D.C. that work in law and politics.

It's globalists against YOU (THE PEOPLE) in terms of the BS out there.
Be smart and safe.
When making these types of statements, it would be neat if you actually gave names of said arrested BLMers and antifa people, especially considering that it would at least somewhat balance out the very long list of QAnon morons (like Chansley), elected GOP officials (like Evans, WV), White Power people (like Proud Boy Nick Ochs), and even a few police officers.

I'm sure people like Fuentes and Baked Alaska have spent years at Trump rallies and online, spewing hatred and crap, only to have been antifa and BLM all along.
They literally arrested and charged a known blm protester for storming the capitol

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/left- ... pitol-riot

It truly would have been tragic if something happened to the commies that have called for trump voters/supporters to be put on lists and to be re-educated. The pearl clutching by the media and politicians that essentially incited violence against republicans is truly remarkable. After the capitol storming, the rhetoric coming from the same politicians and media is truly frightening. We’ve seen that talk played out before in China and Russia and it isn’t good.
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Asmodeanreborn
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laxwyo wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:35 pm
Asmodeanreborn wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:45 pm
alyssa wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:44 pm That was fake MAGA supporters doing bad things at the WH. Many of them have already been arrested (recorded) with ANTIFA, BLM, etc. groups destroying other parts of the US. They were (once again) bussed in.
I have three family members that live in D.C. that work in law and politics.

It's globalists against YOU (THE PEOPLE) in terms of the BS out there.
Be smart and safe.
When making these types of statements, it would be neat if you actually gave names of said arrested BLMers and antifa people, especially considering that it would at least somewhat balance out the very long list of QAnon morons (like Chansley), elected GOP officials (like Evans, WV), White Power people (like Proud Boy Nick Ochs), and even a few police officers.

I'm sure people like Fuentes and Baked Alaska have spent years at Trump rallies and online, spewing hatred and crap, only to have been antifa and BLM all along.
They literally arrested and charged a known blm protester for storming the capitol

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/left- ... pitol-riot

It truly would have been tragic if something happened to the commies that have called for trump voters/supporters to be put on lists and to be re-educated. The pearl clutching by the media and politicians that essentially incited violence against republicans is truly remarkable. After the capitol storming, the rhetoric coming from the same politicians and media is truly frightening. We’ve seen that talk played out before in China and Russia and it isn’t good.
The claim was that it was antifa and BLM "doing the bad things." You have a single moron claiming to be on the left - sweet, hope they throw the book at him. It still doesn't negate that this was a right wing affair and that a vast majority of those arrested have been right wingers. Threatening the VP and the Speaker of the House because they think the President is wrong is not normal behavior, regardless of which side of the aisle you're on.

No matter who planted the explosives, I hope they get them too and toss them in prison for a long time. It's time to quit letting extremists get away with violence, whether they're Proud Boys or avowed Communists.
ragtimejoe1
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From Bush to Obama to Trump and Biden, all bet on low interest rates to justify debt.

If projections are wrong and interst rises quickly, we're screwed. We're now with Italy, Japan, and Greece with borrowing over 100% GDP. Consider SS and Medicaire, we're on track to be 200%+ GDP :o

The budget scenario is right where China and Russia would want us.

The 2 parties brought this on us. Anyone ever consider they are 2 different boards on the same trojan horse? How do they hide it? Fan the flames of civil rivalries and fabricate race and class warfare.

If you support a party, you are responsible for the downfall of the US.
"There's always excuses for a sports program not winning or academic program not succeeding. And it's not that the excuses aren't true; it's that they aren't sufficient," --Sternberg
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Asmodeanreborn
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:30 am From Bush to Obama to Trump and Biden, all bet on low interest rates to justify debt.

If projections are wrong and interst rises quickly, we're screwed. We're now with Italy, Japan, and Greece with borrowing over 100% GDP. Consider SS and Medicaire, we're on track to be 200%+ GDP :o

The budget scenario is right where China and Russia would want us.

The 2 parties brought this on us. Anyone ever consider they are 2 different boards on the same trojan horse? How do they hide it? Fan the flames of civil rivalries and fabricate race and class warfare.

If you support a party, you are responsible for the downfall of the US.
Yep. I want to cut the deficit like crazy, but it won't happen until the economy's back on track. Even before COVID hit, we were at a Trillion dollar+ deficit when we were at a great point to actually FIX the deficit somewhat. I know the budget hawks will suddenly come out of the woodwork now again this year, but fact is, this has been ongoing.

Also, a lot of people will be pretty unhappy when the tax cuts expire in a few months... meanwhile, the corporate tax cuts from the same bill were made permanent.

In all seriousness, there won't be an easy way out of this until we start looking at military spending, figuring out who's outsourcing their profits to where they don't have to pay taxes, and so on. I'm really uncomfortable just sitting on savings/emergency cash right now, because it's not growing at all, and with the amount of money we've printed over the last year, inflation could hit us really hard.
ragtimejoe1
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Democratic (or Republican) talking points aren't fixing the problem nor do they want to.

The rich don't have enough and can't generate enough money to fix this. Take 100% of the defense budget and you stopgap the deficit but don't touch debt and incumbered funds with ss and medicare.

Democrats and Republicans have bankrupt us which is exactly what the people controlling those parties wanted to do. Unfortunately we have a population of zombies who are happy to mindlessly regurgitate the party line. It amazes me how engrained it has become in people's minds.
"There's always excuses for a sports program not winning or academic program not succeeding. And it's not that the excuses aren't true; it's that they aren't sufficient," --Sternberg
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Asmodeanreborn
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ragtimejoe1 wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:37 pm Democratic (or Republican) talking points aren't fixing the problem nor do they want to.

The rich don't have enough and can't generate enough money to fix this. Take 100% of the defense budget and you stopgap the deficit but don't touch debt and incumbered funds with ss and medicare.

Democrats and Republicans have bankrupt us which is exactly what the people controlling those parties wanted to do. Unfortunately we have a population of zombies who are happy to mindlessly regurgitate the party line. It amazes me how engrained it has become in people's minds.
Well, there isn't a single solution to the problem. We're going to have to take a long look at many different avenues. I'm not a fan of finding ways to tax certain people - even though, sure, it's kind of messed up that Buffett and Musk pay a lower percentage than I do as a result of the capital gains rate. Changing the rules for corporations like Apple and Amazon so they can't buy services from their own subsidiaries in tax havens equal to their entire profits and paying zero taxes where they actually make their money could make a huge difference. Of course, something tells me nobody in Congress would be in favor of something like this, except possibly a few of the idealists. Quite honestly, as much as I love money a bit too much, I could probably afford to be taxed at a higher rate too.

We're also in an interesting situation where slowly but surely, businesses killed off pensions in favor of 401k, meaning that the responsibility to save for retirement fell on a bunch of people who had no idea or know-how how to do so - and since it's voluntary to participate, many won't even when their employer actually matches contributions.

This is likely going to have serious consequences down the line where more and more elderly will hit retirement in complete poverty. I love my in-laws, but they are definitely in this situation as a Pastor's family. One of the first things that happened during rough times 25 years or whatever ago was that they sacrificed their church benefits and a portion of my FIL's salary to keep people on staff, and each time they've talked about reinstating the 401k, it's been met with hemming and hawing. They had it again for a short time before the last recession, and then it went away again. "Many people in our congregation don't have retirement savings either - it would look bad. God will provide."

Meanwhile, many of the people who haven't been saving are driving around large trucks they can't afford, hauling boats and 4-wheelers financed on high-interest credit cards, all with no thought of tomorrow. They pray for solutions to their retirements in the prayer groups, but they aren't willing to actually put aside money and sacrifice some of their current fun (and sure, I understand wanting to hunt and fish while your body allows for it, but do you have to go top of the line on everything?). It's so incredibly frustrating, and yes, I'm being very judgmental abut the situation. I'm just too close to the situation not to be, I guess? I know eventually my in-laws will likely have to move in with us, and I suppose that's fine. It's just not quite what I had envisioned for the future? [/rant]
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