Cowboy and Cowgirl Basketball - Where's The Love?

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:14 pm

Lost in all of the soul crushing disappointment from Saturday night is that the only Brown and Gold clad group that performed worse over the weekend than our Offensive Line was the season ticket holders for Men's and Women's Basketball. Ok, not just season ticket holders, but the entire fanbase.

Northern Iowa was as good of a non-conference home game as we can get (top tier MVC team with marquee victories already this season, NCAA Tourney rematch, etc.) and we got them on a Saturday afternoon with everyone in town for the FB game and attendance was..5500? I just don't get it.

The DU game last week was about the worst crowd that I can remember that didn't involve road closures/blizzards, etc.

Last season we only averaged 5500 for the year despite coming off of a NCAA tourney appearance. Now obviously expectations were modest, but still.

By way of comparison, for newer UW fans, the last time we came off a NCAA appearance (02-03, after the 01-02) we averaged over 10k. Now that might have been a little misleading because we were returning a ton of talent and expected to win the next year. However, the following year (03-04) had a lot of similarities to last year in that we lost all the key players from a great run except for one high scoring guard (Jay Straight in those days). That team finished in a tie for last in the MWC, yet still averaged over 8k per game.

At the beginning of Shyatt's tenure it was much discussed regarding whether or not the fanbase was just in hibernation as a result of the end of McClain's tenure and the Schroyer debacle or whether it was gone. As Shyatt started to build some success it began to look like the fanbase was coming back to an extent, but even the well attended games couldn't sell out our new smaller capacity AA. Now, it is apparent that the basketball fanbase is gone.

The Cowgirls are seeing something similar. Cowgirl attendance has been on a long term decline since the NCAA tournament season where the per game attendance now is less than half of what it was.

I guess where I am going is this: Why do you guys think that is? Why no support/excitement for our two hoops programs?

Both of these current teams feature some young, talented players that will be fun to watch develop over the next couple of seasons. They deserve our support.

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:38 pm

The new seating has sucked all life from the arena. Students behind the hoop? That's a joke.

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:50 pm

LanderPoke wrote:The new seating has sucked all life from the arena. Students behind the hoop? That's a joke.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Not necessarily the student section, although that is part of it, but the fact that there is a huge section of empty seats due to season ticket holders not showing up that is the in the prime area. It looks horrible on TV (for whatever that is worth) and doesn't provide energy for the team.

I can understand having some issues after the remodel, but I can't understand why nothing has been done in terms of seating locations, policies, etc.

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:53 pm

NowherePoke wrote:
LanderPoke wrote:The new seating has sucked all life from the arena. Students behind the hoop? That's a joke.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Not necessarily the student section, although that is part of it, but the fact that there is a huge section of empty seats due to season ticket holders not showing up that is the in the prime area. It looks horrible on TV (for whatever that is worth) and doesn't provide energy for the team.

I can understand having some issues after the remodel, but I can't understand why nothing has been done in terms of seating locations, policies, etc.

Agree. Nothing is going to get better until they change the seating situation.

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:53 pm

I was actually just looking at the media guide last night and the recent attendance history definitely stood out. It's far more than just the new seating. This goes back over a decade. The peak was in the early 2000s when the AA averaged 10k plus in consecutive years. But since then? See for yourself:

2001-02: 10,026
2002-03: 10,108
2003-04: 8,201
2004-05: 7,467
2005-06: 5,672
2006-07: 6,069
2007-08: 5,262
2008-09: 5,326
2009-10: 4,885
2010-11: 4,346
2011-12: 4,955
2012-13: 5,615
2013-14: 5,151
2014-15: 6,310
2015-16: 5,501

Should note too that the Cowboys have averaged 10k in a season just four times in AA history (and just three more over 9k), but before this stretch most seasons were in the 6-8k range and not the 4-6k range.

Right now, the highest attendance of the season was for South Dakota State (6,833). Saturday afternoon was the second-best (5,539).

Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:05 pm

joshvanklomp wrote:I was actually just looking at the media guide last night and the recent attendance history definitely stood out. It's far more than just the new seating. This goes back over a decade. The peak was in the early 2000s when the AA averaged 10k plus in consecutive years. But since then? See for yourself:

2001-02: 10,026 - 22-9 - MWC Champs/NCAA Tourney
2002-03: 10,108 - 21-12 - NIT - 3rd Place MWC
2003-04: 8,201 - 11-18 - T-7th MWC (8 team MWC)
2004-05: 7,467 - 15-12 - .500 in MWC play
2005-06: 5,672 - 14-18 - Bottom tier MWC
2006-07: 6,069 - 17-15
2007-08: 5,262 - 12-19 - Pig-tail game, screw Heath Schroyer
2008-09: 5,326 - 19-12 - CBI, Ewing's senior season
2009-10: 4,885 - 10-21 - F Heath Schroyer
2010-11: 4,346 - 10-21 - F Heath Schroyer and Fred Langley
2011-12: 4,955 - 21-12 - Larry Shyatt's first season, 6-8 MWC
2012-13: 5,615 - 20-14 - Larry Shyatt's second season, started 13-0 and ranked before the Martinez issue
2013-14: 5,151 - 18-15 - .500 in MWC play for the first time in nearly a decade. Emergence of Nance
2014-15: 6,310 - 24-10 - MWC Tourney champs, NCAA appearance, first place in MWC before Mono hit.
2015-16: 5,501 - 14-18 - The Josh Adams Show

Should note too that the Cowboys have averaged 10k in a season just four times in AA history (and just three more over 9k), but before this stretch most seasons were in the 6-8k range and not the 4-6k range.

Right now, the highest attendance of the season was for South Dakota State (6,833). Saturday afternoon was the second-best (5,539).

Exactly. What is striking is when you put records next to it (see above, off the top of my head so may not be exact). Attendance shrunk from 02-03 to 10-11 dramatically, but so did the results on the court. It was hard to blame fans for staying away from the Schroyer debacle. What is strking is that they didn't really come back. You can go back further and you will see that we averaged between 6-8k in the late 90's for teams that were very similar in performance to 13-14, 14-15, and 08-09 (18, 19 wins, borderline NIT).

Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:25 pm

Looking further, 2 of the top 3 attended games in AA history were from the first two years I used above (and the third from the year before). 16k for Utah in 01-02 and 15.4k for byu in 02-03 (plus another 15k for CSU that year). The smallest home crowd in 02-03 MW play was 9k. 8.6k the year before. Last year we had one game over 7k attendance (8.1k vs CSU).

Denver got 10k fans in 02-03. This year they got 4k.

Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:06 pm

The problem is a more or less "perfect storm". The conjunction of the Shroyer debacle and the re-seating of the AA has gotten us here. The re-seating was very poorly handled. There are, in fact, many season ticket holders whose empty seats are a protest of the re-seating policy and procedure. Decades of loyalty to the program through thick and thin as well as CJC affiliation despite grandfathered status meant little to the AD's office. They basically thumbed their noses at the bedrock of the fan base. Now the price is being paid.

There's also the added factor of televised and streamed games. Tonight's game has 550 viewers...

Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:41 pm

Are students no longer getting free admission? It's either that or an organized protest is going on. Student turnout has never been this bad

Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:43 pm

AA so dead the ref was listening to Dave read a promo during a free throw

Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:49 pm

cali2wyo wrote:Are students no longer getting free admission? It's either that or an organized protest is going on. Student turnout has never been this bad

Couldn't blame them, the students got shafted...

Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:31 am

I don't be have an answer. But to me it's a very serious long term problem that I hope the AD can grasp the gravity of. It seems as if they are capable of maybe solving one problem at a time unfortunately. Hopefully we have the wreck that was our football program now righted and we can figure out a way to get people to come back for basketball games. I think you've spoken to this Nowhere and I agree with you, in that our potential for a perennially nationally relevant program is much greater in hoops than football, but not with the current level of support from the fans.

Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:41 am

Was the layout and seating configuration done in such a way for the anticipation of club seating in the original design plan which will not be implemented now with the current plans?

Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:53 am

You have to win to fill the AA. You can't have season like last, coming off the NCAA birth, and expect fans to show up. You can't have a team that loses at home to Fort Lewis and expect people to brave the winter Wyoming roads. You can't have Colorado Christian come into the AA and push us around for 30+ minutes and expect fans to show up. Now, Edwards and Co. start blowing teams out and playing sound basketball and stringing together a couple years of 20+ wins and deep runs into the post season and the fans will show up. The number above prove that if you win, attendance will rise. Hell, look at football. Wyoming fans are a fickle bunch but show up when there is something to see. Give them something to see.

Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:52 am

ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:You have to win to fill the AA. You can't have season like last, coming off the NCAA birth, and expect fans to show up. You can't have a team that loses at home to Fort Lewis and expect people to brave the winter Wyoming roads. You can't have Colorado Christian come into the AA and push us around for 30+ minutes and expect fans to show up. Now, Edwards and Co. start blowing teams out and playing sound basketball and stringing together a couple years of 20+ wins and deep runs into the post season and the fans will show up. The number above prove that if you win, attendance will rise. Hell, look at football. Wyoming fans are a fickle bunch but show up when there is something to see. Give them something to see.

This isn't just about last year. We started the season 15-2 two years ago. Big home game with SDSU drew only 6,101 fans. That doesn't look like a "win and we'll show up" mentality.

Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:55 am

joshvanklomp wrote:
ItSucksToBeACSURam wrote:You have to win to fill the AA. You can't have season like last, coming off the NCAA birth, and expect fans to show up. You can't have a team that loses at home to Fort Lewis and expect people to brave the winter Wyoming roads. You can't have Colorado Christian come into the AA and push us around for 30+ minutes and expect fans to show up. Now, Edwards and Co. start blowing teams out and playing sound basketball and stringing together a couple years of 20+ wins and deep runs into the post season and the fans will show up. The number above prove that if you win, attendance will rise. Hell, look at football. Wyoming fans are a fickle bunch but show up when there is something to see. Give them something to see.
This isn't just about last year. We started the season 15-2 two years ago. Big home game with SDSU drew only 6,101 fans. That doesn't look like a "win and we'll show up" mentality.

That was over Christmas break. That one doesn't count

Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:58 am

LanderPoke wrote:That was over Christmas break. That one doesn't count

January 14 is over Christmas break?

Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:03 pm

joshvanklomp wrote:
LanderPoke wrote:That was over Christmas break. That one doesn't count
January 14 is over Christmas break?

Yes. Winter break lasted until January 25th, 2016.

Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:08 pm

Good discussion, and some valid points (re-seating of the AA, Heath debacle, etc.).

I would add to that...we are seeing what a winning football team does to the basketball attendance, for the first time in a long, long while. We also are experiencing what everyone was heated talking about last year - whether Wyoming was a basketball or football school. I think we all now can see the answer - quite clearly.

I understand that the women's attendance has tanked to the levels of 2004-ish and before. Is that correct, has anyone else been to a Women's game this year, or heard the same? Announced attendance is still in the 2000 range, but actual is in the 200 or so range from what an attending fan had told me.

Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:16 pm

McPeachy wrote:
joshvanklomp wrote:
LanderPoke wrote:That was over Christmas break. That one doesn't count
January 14 is over Christmas break?
Yes. Winter break lasted until January 25th, 2016.

This was 2015 I was talking about

Even still, we're talking numbers 2-3 thousand lower than other games. I think that has to be due to more than just students on break.