A QB Away.....

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WyoVaquero
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If Wyo can just find an average passer. We run the ball so well, there has to be receivers wide open. I hope chambers comes back healthy.
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'PokeForLife
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Another question though is if our receivers are able to separate consistently. I feel like we have had bottom dweller level receivers for most of the recent years. I have thought eberhardt has looked good this year as well as Neyor at times though.
bladerunnr
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WyoVaquero wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:31 pm If Wyo can just find an average passer. We run the ball so well, there has to be receivers wide open. I hope chambers comes back healthy.
I'm afraid you may be right. I thought Levi could be the guy but he was simply horrible today. He threw it high, low, and behind receivers. With Chamber's injury history, I think we need to hit the recruiting trail hard for someone who can step in right away - maybe a transfer.
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fromolwyoming
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Chambers and Williams have both shown to be very dangerous runners. But passing... We never got to actually see how Chambers did this year, as a freak accident took him down. Williams has a cannon of an arm, but his accuracy and consistency are spotty at best.

Eberhardt and Neyor (I don't know if I'll ever say his name right) look to be pretty good in the passing game when its on point. Neyor being not only good sized, but a legit downfield threat. While Eberhardt uses his size pretty well.

But while run blocking, when not facing 10 fresh guys in the box, is pretty solid consistently, the pass blocking does leave a lot to be desired.

RB, concerned for Valladay, but with Smith and other guys behind him, along with Williams, the run game is in good hands. Usually.
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Asmodeanreborn
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Let's be honest, we're not getting a QB "who can throw better." Levi was rated a .846 by 247 sports, one of the highest we've ever had. We managed to snag him as he decommitted from Houston, where I'm sure he would've been successful.

His senior year he had 3200 passing yards and 32 TD passes in 6A High School football in Texas and played as a pro style QB (1100 yards and 7 more TDs than as a junior). There's no way the throwing he's been showing us is the kind of throwing that amasses those stats in Texas.

Hell, the highlights from his junior high school year looks better than ANY throw so far this season except maybe that one missile against Hawaii.
Old-Bull
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I wouldn't say we're a qb away. Josh Allen played in this offense with Hollister, Maulhardt, Gentry, and Brian Hill. That team averaged 36 points a game. Josh Allen's completion percentage was 56 percent. It's not the qb as much as it is the system.

It's going to be pretty damn hard for Wyoming to find a qb as good as Josh Allen.
bullbugle307
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Old-Bull wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 10:33 pm I wouldn't say we're a qb away. Josh Allen played in this offense with Hollister, Maulhardt, Gentry, and Brian Hill. That team averaged 36 points a game. Josh Allen's completion percentage was 56 percent. It's not the qb as much as it is the system.

It's going to be pretty damn hard for Wyoming to find a qb as good as Josh Allen.
I completely agree. There's a reason Josh Allen is the "unicorn". Someone here said 95 percent of QBs won't increase their accuracy. That's probably true. But 95 percent of QBs that make it to the NFL were coached as QBs in college by someone who had a half a clue how to coordinate a functional passing game at the FBS level. The other 5 percent were in an offense run by someone like Brent Vigen.

In my mind, our QB problems have to come down to a combination of bad recievers, our offensive system, and what we choose to focus on in practice. I've gotta wonder what our practice reps look like in terms of runs vs passes. I think I know the answer based on what I've seen for the past 6 or 7 years.
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LanderPoke
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To restate the painful obvious facts, we need a new QB coach and OC
OrediggerPoke
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LanderPoke wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:36 am To restate the painful obvious facts, we need a new QB coach and OC
Yea that is painfully obvious. The Pokes only put up 45 points and 400 rushing yards.
bladerunnr
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LanderPoke wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:36 am To restate the painful obvious facts, we need a new QB coach and OC
I will never understand this logic. It's like saying you really like Laramie except for the people and the weather. If you don't like the offense, then the one to blame is the guy at the top. Bohl doesn't agree with your assessment of his OC.
bullbugle307
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I don't know man. He made it pretty clear this year he expected much more out of our passing game. And it's pretty obvious Vigen ain't gonna deliver. Whether he holds him accountable is one thing, but I don't think Bohl is happy with our offense. I think he understands that him being able to deliver on his promises depends on being able to pass the ball when we need to so defenses can't just sell out on the run.

Its all well and good to curb stomp UNLV. That team we faced yesterday is probably the worst team we've faced in Bohls entire tenure. I'm not gonna ignore all the problems on offense because we ran all over an already bad team that is missing most of its players.
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PokeNer
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bullbugle307 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:10 am I don't know man. He made it pretty clear this year he expected much more out of our passing game. And it's pretty obvious Vigen ain't gonna deliver. Whether he holds him accountable is one thing, but I don't think Bohl is happy with our offense. I think he understands that him being able to deliver on his promises depends on being able to pass the ball when we need to so defenses can't just sell out on the run.

Its all well and good to curb stomp UNLV. That team we faced yesterday is probably the worst team we've faced in Bohls entire tenure. I'm not gonna ignore all the problems on offense because we ran all over an already bad team that is missing most of its players.
You nailed it. Vigen supporters will come on and pound thier chest about the offensive performance when we demolish bad teams. That's what has been very consistent in Bohl's tenure; our offensive scheme works very well when we can manhandle them at the LOS.

The problem comes when we match up with a team with similar or better talent. It fails over and over. We will never make it to the next level with Vigen. Craig Bohl, supporters of this offense, and Vigen supporters have to be happy with seasons ranging from 8-4 to 6-6, cause that's the limit with the current staff.

I really hope Bohl stands behind his off-season words. Like you stated, he was very clear he expected more out of the offense. Will he make a change, or will Vigen get another pass/excuse cause Chambers was lost? Time will tell, I guess.
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Old-Bull
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I dont know why anyone is surprised. Bohl is an Osborne protégé. Even when Nebraska dominated college football, they never had a good passing offense.

I dont want to get rid of him. I still like it better than DC, Glenn, Vic Koenning, or Dana Dimel. Hell, we ran Tiller out of Laramie for taking a safety(although it was a stupid decision).

Bohl is still the only guy to have us playing for a conference championship on the last game of the season since the early 90's.
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PokeNer
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Old-Bull wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:49 am I dont know why anyone is surprised. Bohl is an Osborne protégé. Even when Nebraska dominated college football, they never had a good passing offense.

I dont want to get rid of him. I still like it better than DC, Glenn, Vic Koenning, or Dana Dimel. Hell, we ran Tiller out of Laramie for taking a safety(although it was a stupid decision).

Bohl is still the only guy to have us playing for a conference championship on the last game of the season since the early 90's.
There's a big difference from the Osborne offenses and Bohl's. Osborne had no intention of passing, except on a few occasions off the option.

Bohl/Vigens offense needs the pass in most games. Our offense relies on PA and when we can't get more than 2-3 ypc, needs to be effective. Osborne had the scheme and lines to run 60 times a game against the best defenses in the country, we do not.

Again, Bohl has stated numerous times in the off-season that he expects more from the passing game and it's not happening. Also, any reasonable fan doesn't want to switch to an Air Raid or spread. We just want an effective pass game and better play calling to get us to Boise's level. We need a new OC and WR coach at a minimum.
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Old-Bull
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PokeNer wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:29 pm
Old-Bull wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:49 am I dont know why anyone is surprised. Bohl is an Osborne protégé. Even when Nebraska dominated college football, they never had a good passing offense.

I dont want to get rid of him. I still like it better than DC, Glenn, Vic Koenning, or Dana Dimel. Hell, we ran Tiller out of Laramie for taking a safety(although it was a stupid decision).

Bohl is still the only guy to have us playing for a conference championship on the last game of the season since the early 90's.
There's a big difference from the Osborne offenses and Bohl's. Osborne had no intention of passing, except on a few occasions off the option.

Bohl/Vigens offense needs the pass in most games. Our offense relies on PA and when we can't get more than 2-3 ypc, needs to be effective. Osborne had the scheme and lines to run 60 times a game against the best defenses in the country, we do not.

Again, Bohl has stated numerous times in the off-season that he expects more from the passing game and it's not happening. Also, any reasonable fan doesn't want to switch to an Air Raid or spread. We just want an effective pass game and better play calling to get us to Boise's level. We need a new OC and WR coach at a minimum.
I guess I dont really see that we "need" to pass anymore than the Huskers did. We are running our offense in different formations then Nebraska, but I would bet our run/pass percentages are pretty close to heyday Nebraska.

We pass when we have to: usually third and long. Thats my biggest criticism. We pass so infrequently it should be a damn surprise when we do it. Afa did that for years. They might only pass 8 times a game, but 3 of them go for 50 because they surprise the defense.

Its not the qb. It has more to do with an offensive philosophy that is 180 degrees different then Wyoming football since AL Kincaid was our coach. Our fans are accustomed to passing the ball. Osborne guys run the ball at all costs to control the clock and minimize turnovers.

Honestly, Covid screwed us this year. The offense is scoring enough. Were moving the ball. If we didn't have 3/4 players in the defensive line 2 deep opt out, we would be undefeated still. Other teams are at full strength. We're playing scout team guys on our defensive line.

I dont blame Chambers or Levi though. In the heyday of Cornhusker football, they never produced a passed as gifted as Josh Allen or Carston Wentz.
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LanderPoke
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:45 am
LanderPoke wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:36 am To restate the painful obvious facts, we need a new QB coach and OC
Yea that is painfully obvious. The Pokes only put up 45 points and 400 rushing yards.
Wow against a winless team decimated by covid with a first year head coach.

Which QBs do you feel have significantly improved during Vigen’s time as QBs coach
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PokeNer
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Old-Bull wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:56 pm
PokeNer wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:29 pm
Old-Bull wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:49 am I dont know why anyone is surprised. Bohl is an Osborne protégé. Even when Nebraska dominated college football, they never had a good passing offense.

I dont want to get rid of him. I still like it better than DC, Glenn, Vic Koenning, or Dana Dimel. Hell, we ran Tiller out of Laramie for taking a safety(although it was a stupid decision).

Bohl is still the only guy to have us playing for a conference championship on the last game of the season since the early 90's.
There's a big difference from the Osborne offenses and Bohl's. Osborne had no intention of passing, except on a few occasions off the option.

Bohl/Vigens offense needs the pass in most games. Our offense relies on PA and when we can't get more than 2-3 ypc, needs to be effective. Osborne had the scheme and lines to run 60 times a game against the best defenses in the country, we do not.

Again, Bohl has stated numerous times in the off-season that he expects more from the passing game and it's not happening. Also, any reasonable fan doesn't want to switch to an Air Raid or spread. We just want an effective pass game and better play calling to get us to Boise's level. We need a new OC and WR coach at a minimum.
I guess I dont really see that we "need" to pass anymore than the Huskers did. We are running our offense in different formations then Nebraska, but I would bet our run/pass percentages are pretty close to heyday Nebraska.

We pass when we have to: usually third and long. Thats my biggest criticism. We pass so infrequently it should be a damn surprise when we do it. Afa did that for years. They might only pass 8 times a game, but 3 of them go for 50 because they surprise the defense.

Its not the qb. It has more to do with an offensive philosophy that is 180 degrees different then Wyoming football since AL Kincaid was our coach. Our fans are accustomed to passing the ball. Osborne guys run the ball at all costs to control the clock and minimize turnovers.

Honestly, Covid screwed us this year. The offense is scoring enough. Were moving the ball. If we didn't have 3/4 players in the defensive line 2 deep opt out, we would be undefeated still. Other teams are at full strength. We're playing scout team guys on our defensive line.

I dont blame Chambers or Levi though. In the heyday of Cornhusker football, they never produced a passed as gifted as Josh Allen or Carston Wentz.
We probably don't need to pass against the UNLVs, NMs,.etc. But there's no way we can run 95% of the time against the upper half of the league and expect to win.

We averaged 3.7 ypc against Nevada, and 3.0 against CSU in those two losses. When those two teams (mid- to lower-level defensive teams) can shut down the run game, what do you think is going to happen against Boise or SJSU/SDSU if they were on the schedule? If we could have produced at all on O in the first three quarters in those two games and not gotten behind 3 scores, we'd be 4-0.

Opponents have no fear against our pass offense. Good D's can tee off on the run on 1st and 2nd; it's almost always an A-gap run. Then it puts us in 3rd and long and we have no shot. Even when Ds focus on the run and we happen to call a pass, we aren't effective. To me we have the talent, Williams and Neyor can be solid, coaching is lacking.
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bullbugle307
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Nebraska and AF both had/have much more diverse play calling when they run the ball that much. They didn't make it so easy for the defense to guess what was coming. They hand the ball to the FB. They toss it outside. They run the option etc. Vigen is the most predictable play caller I've ever seen. I've gotta think defensive coordinators love playing Wyoming. As long as they have the bodies to match up (and all the above average teams do), they don't have to guess much about what we're going to do
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I guess that one of my concerns is the lack of mental and emotional preparation. They were NOT ready to play in either Reno or Fort Collins, and that was painfully obvious. As one of you said before, not being ready to play is the fault of the coaches. How many times have we seen bs-state come out unprepared? Zero? They started out okay against byu, but simply got overwhelmed. Like it or no ... and I don't like it ... byu is for real. The Lobos are tired of losing, and that makes them dangerous, and bs-state "knows" that they're gonna kick our tails. Lack of mental and emotional preparation could very well result in two more losses.
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PokeNer
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bullbugle307 wrote: Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:16 pm Nebraska and AF both had/have much more diverse play calling when they run the ball that much. They didn't make it so easy for the defense to guess what was coming. They hand the ball to the FB. They toss it outside. They run the option etc. Vigen is the most predictable play caller I've ever seen. I've gotta think defensive coordinators love playing Wyoming. As long as they have the bodies to match up (and all the above average teams do), they don't have to guess much about what we're going to do
Yep, every play the defense has to be prepared for at least 3 ball carriers against those option teams. We have one (occasionally 2), and it's very easy to predict where it's going based on the formation
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