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303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:16 ammultiple Power 5 personnel officials told On3 that they view Pregnon as the top overall prospect among the 89 FBS scholarship players that officially entered the transfer portal Saturday
It sucks so bad. I think we should stop recruiting overlooked high school prospects all together. What's the point? Invest a bunch of time and money so they can leave??
Pregnon was vastly undersized coming out of high school and his only other offers were Colorado State-Pueblo and Chadron State. D2 schools. So we spend a bunch of money to develop and bulk him up in our program for 3 years and get one season from him? His twitter post mentions nothing about Wyoming other than he desires to 'level up.' Wow - seems like a really appreciative guy. Can't say I am rooting for him at his next destination at all.
303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:16 ammultiple Power 5 personnel officials told On3 that they view Pregnon as the top overall prospect among the 89 FBS scholarship players that officially entered the transfer portal Saturday
It sucks so bad. I think we should stop recruiting overlooked high school prospects all together. What's the point? Invest a bunch of time and money so they can leave??
Pregnon was vastly undersized coming out of high school and his only other offers were Colorado State-Pueblo and Chadron State. D2 schools. So we spend a bunch of money to develop and bulk him up in our program for 3 years and get one season from him? His twitter post mentions nothing about Wyoming other than he desires to 'level up.' Wow - seems like a really appreciative guy. Can't say I am rooting for him at his next destination at all.
Normally I would cut a young man some slack for not being appreciative of what his former school has done for him but given what the other transferees posted Pregnon's Twitter post seems awfully unaware.
303cowboy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 10:16 ammultiple Power 5 personnel officials told On3 that they view Pregnon as the top overall prospect among the 89 FBS scholarship players that officially entered the transfer portal Saturday
It sucks so bad. I think we should stop recruiting overlooked high school prospects all together. What's the point? Invest a bunch of time and money so they can leave??
Pregnon was vastly undersized coming out of high school and his only other offers were Colorado State-Pueblo and Chadron State. D2 schools. So we spend a bunch of money to develop and bulk him up in our program for 3 years and get one season from him? His twitter post mentions nothing about Wyoming other than he desires to 'level up.' Wow - seems like a really appreciative guy. Can't say I am rooting for him at his next destination at all.
It's kind of a no-win situation. The nice part about those guys is they are young and a lot of them do become really pretty good. That type of player has the been the backbone of the good Wyoming squads. this is the new reality though...
It sucks so bad. I think we should stop recruiting overlooked high school prospects all together. What's the point? Invest a bunch of time and money so they can leave??
Pregnon was vastly undersized coming out of high school and his only other offers were Colorado State-Pueblo and Chadron State. D2 schools. So we spend a bunch of money to develop and bulk him up in our program for 3 years and get one season from him? His twitter post mentions nothing about Wyoming other than he desires to 'level up.' Wow - seems like a really appreciative guy. Can't say I am rooting for him at his next destination at all.
Normally I would cut a young man some slack for not being appreciative of what his former school has done for him but given what the other transferees posted Pregnon's Twitter post seems awfully unaware.
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As disgusted as I am (and know everyone else is) with this whole unfettered portal thing, maybe there is a little silver lining here. After all, the Big 10 personnel guy did say that Wyoming does a really good job of developing players. So maybe we get a couple of good years out of some highly motivated go-getters (maybe even steered to Wyo by bigger programs) before they move on. Sucks that they leave, but maybe some decide to stay. Maybe being a farm system to some of the "big programs" (because we might be getting quality but underdeveloped recruits) might at least have a little bit of a payoff.
doreno5 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:27 pm
Normally I would cut a young man some slack for not being appreciative of what his former school has done for him but given what the other transferees posted Pregnon's Twitter post seems awfully unaware.
[/qu
As disgusted as I am (and know everyone else is) with this whole unfettered portal thing, maybe there is a little silver lining here. After all, the Big 10 personnel guy did say that Wyoming does a really good job of developing players. So maybe we get a couple of good years out of some highly motivated go-getters (maybe even steered to Wyo by bigger programs) before they move on. Sucks that they leave, but maybe some decide to stay. Maybe being a farm system to some of the "big programs" (because we might be getting quality but underdeveloped recruits) might at least have a little bit of a payoff.
I wish I could be a glass half full kind of guy but all I can see right now is a lot of downside to the situation.
I just noticed on the On3 portal site that Titus Swen is now listed as having withdrawn from the portal. Does that mean he coming back, or just declaring for the pros?
If player leaves G5 and signs with P5, then for every transfer that G5 team should recieve an additional scholarship (exempt from title ix)and traveling roster spot. The scholarship is funded by the p5 school the player signs with.
WYO1016 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am
I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
wwplayer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:41 pm
I just noticed on the On3 portal site that Titus Swen is now listed as having withdrawn from the portal. Does that mean he coming back, or just declaring for the pros?
Entered draft
WYO1016 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am
I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
wwplayer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:11 pm
As disgusted as I am (and know everyone else is) with this whole unfettered portal thing, maybe there is a little silver lining here. After all, the Big 10 personnel guy did say that Wyoming does a really good job of developing players. So maybe we get a couple of good years out of some highly motivated go-getters (maybe even steered to Wyo by bigger programs) before they move on. Sucks that they leave, but maybe some decide to stay. Maybe being a farm system to some of the "big programs" (because we might be getting quality but underdeveloped recruits) might at least have a little bit of a payoff.
Do you believe 3 years of development and costs for 1 year of actually playing time for Pregnon is a good return on investment? I don’t.
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:43 pm
If player leaves G5 and signs with P5, then for every transfer that G5 team should recieve an additional scholarship (exempt from title ix)and traveling roster spot. The scholarship is funded by the p5 school the player signs with.
Umm how would the NCAA be able to exempt title ix? That would require congressional action.
ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:43 pm
If player leaves G5 and signs with P5, then for every transfer that G5 team should recieve an additional scholarship (exempt from title ix)and traveling roster spot. The scholarship is funded by the p5 school the player signs with.
Umm how would the NCAA be able to exempt title ix? That would require congressional action.
Yes. If congress doesn't agree, they fund 2 scholarships.
WYO1016 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am
I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
wwplayer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:11 pm
As disgusted as I am (and know everyone else is) with this whole unfettered portal thing, maybe there is a little silver lining here. After all, the Big 10 personnel guy did say that Wyoming does a really good job of developing players. So maybe we get a couple of good years out of some highly motivated go-getters (maybe even steered to Wyo by bigger programs) before they move on. Sucks that they leave, but maybe some decide to stay. Maybe being a farm system to some of the "big programs" (because we might be getting quality but underdeveloped recruits) might at least have a little bit of a payoff.
Do you believe 3 years of development and costs for 1 year of actually playing time for Pregnon is a good return on investment? I don’t.
ROI is a wierd way to look at it. Was there ever any chance they weren't going to do everything in thier power to help these guys develop? What about the guys who never pan out? Those guys are the majority....what is the return on those dudes?
If there is any guarantee In Wyoming sports ... it's that if you can leave and go P5...you will. This is the true no win situation because the players that are good enough absolutely should go and it will suck each and every time when it happens. The system has been tilted against us for so long and now it is not a tilt...it's a cliff.
Do you believe 3 years of development and costs for 1 year of actually playing time for Pregnon is a good return on investment? I don’t.
ROI is a wierd way to look at it. Was there ever any chance they weren't going to do everything in thier power to help these guys develop? What about the guys who never pan out? Those guys are the majority....what is the return on those dudes?
If there is any guarantee In Wyoming sports ... it's that if you can leave and go P5...you will. This is the true no win situation because the players that are good enough absolutely should go and it will suck each and every time when it happens. The system has been tilted against us for so long and now it is not a tilt...it's a cliff.
ROI is exactly how to look at it IMO. We used to have no choice but to take chances on projects because we weren't typically going to land good D1 ready players and because Bohl and company believed in their ability to develop athletic talent (which they have proven on many occassions). Some didn't pan out and some did. It made the risk worth it for Wyoming.
Now my point is - we should abandon high school projects all together because the ones that pan out will just leave anyways. Therefore, there is basically no longer anything to be gained on the investment. We wasted a bunch of time and money to get 9 total games out of Pregnon so that now he can go and help some other P5 school and make money off the development efforts of Wyoming and its staff.
ROI is a wierd way to look at it. Was there ever any chance they weren't going to do everything in thier power to help these guys develop? What about the guys who never pan out? Those guys are the majority....what is the return on those dudes?
If there is any guarantee In Wyoming sports ... it's that if you can leave and go P5...you will. This is the true no win situation because the players that are good enough absolutely should go and it will suck each and every time when it happens. The system has been tilted against us for so long and now it is not a tilt...it's a cliff.
ROI is exactly how to look at it IMO. We used to have no choice but to take chances on projects because we weren't typically going to land good D1 ready players and because Bohl and company believed in their ability to develop athletic talent (which they have proven on many occassions). Some didn't pan out and some did. It made the risk worth it for Wyoming.
Now my point is - we should abandon high school projects all together because the ones that pan out will just leave anyways. Therefore, there is basically no longer anything to be gained on the investment. We wasted a bunch of time and money to get 9 total games out of Pregnon so that now he can go and help some other P5 school and make money off the development efforts of Wyoming and its staff.
Didn't mean to come off as disagreeing..... Just something about the analogy doesn't work for me. I get what you are saying though. I think it's because the average guy that plays at Wyoming just isn't that good so on the front end.... You are doing the best you can and just trying to develop the recruits as quickly and as efficiently as possible. The amount of "resources" that went into developing all the guys that transferred was no different than them the amount of resources that went into an of the other guys who weren't going P5 no matter what. It's like an inversion of the sunk cost fallacy sort of.
Ultimately, if you want to make sure nobody transfers (or at least the bare minimum) you y have to make sure that the athletes you have are not attractive targets because if they are.... They gone! Of course, that means we will suck.... But that has been what we've done more often than not anyways. There is such a low probability we will ever get a special player in the portal... Wyoming is not a destination school. Big time high school recruits never have come here and big time portal transfers won't either... At least with the high school guys they could grow and develop.... The transfer guys that are considering Wyoming level schools have very little upside.
307bball wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:54 pm
The transfer guys that are considering Wyoming level schools have very little upside.
They might be hungry. I think we need to look at JUCO, Division 2 and FCS talent and evaluate players that might fit well in the system and who have the ability to be further developed. Once those players transfer to Wyoming, they are pretty much locked in and we can focus on football and not NIL, etc..
307bball wrote: ↑Mon Apr 17, 2023 9:54 pm
The transfer guys that are considering Wyoming level schools have very little upside.
They might be hungry. I think we need to look at JUCO, Division 2 and FCS talent and evaluate players that might fit well in the system and who have the ability to be further developed. Once those players transfer to Wyoming, they are pretty much locked in and we can focus on football and not NIL, etc..
I get the theory, but I think reality is closer to 307's take.
Unless the system is somehow regulated where those benefiting contribute to those losing, we're screwed. Even the NFL realizes this which is why there is a salary cap, comp picks, etc.
WYO1016 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am
I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
They might be hungry. I think we need to look at JUCO, Division 2 and FCS talent and evaluate players that might fit well in the system and who have the ability to be further developed. Once those players transfer to Wyoming, they are pretty much locked in and we can focus on football and not NIL, etc..
I get the theory, but I think reality is closer to 307's take.
Unless the system is somehow regulated where those benefiting contribute to those losing, we're screwed. Even the NFL realizes this which is why there is a salary cap, comp picks, etc.
Something has to change right? The current status quo is just not workable. The upside of an overlooked and hard working high schooler was that of you had a good development program and a profile for what works...you could eventually get a fair amount of all conference upperclassmen. Now that player will not finish their college career at low $$ schools.
What about transfers the other direction? There will always be guys that want to play.... But the best guys at Wyoming have been obviously good enough to play for large big time programs. Again, if a player is obviously that good they are not considering Wyoming. That leaves transfers who are overlooked as the only place left to find an all conference level player that will finish their college career at Wyoming. Just seems like a low probability event.
Oredigger, was it you who brought up the possibility of schools who take transfers somehow compensating the schools who lose transfers? Somehow there has to be a down side to taking every top transfer from the smaller programs.
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:10 am
Oredigger, was it you who brought up the possibility of schools who take transfers somehow compensating the schools who lose transfers? Somehow there has to be a down side to taking every top transfer from the smaller programs.
No, I believe that was Ragtime. I don't see it being viable for a couple reasons.
(1) Why would the big programs agree to that? If the NCAA requires such a restriction/requirement, I could see the Big Programs saying OK, we will just leave the NCAA.
(2) I'm not sure that such a restriction/requirement would pass Anti-Trust law muster. So I'm not even sure it would be legal.
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:10 am
Oredigger, was it you who brought up the possibility of schools who take transfers somehow compensating the schools who lose transfers? Somehow there has to be a down side to taking every top transfer from the smaller programs.
No, I believe that was Ragtime. I don't see it being viable for a couple reasons.
(1) Why would the big programs agree to that? If the NCAA requires such a restriction/requirement, I could see the Big Programs saying OK, we will just leave the NCAA.
(2) I'm not sure that such a restriction/requirement would pass Anti-Trust law muster. So I'm not even sure it would be legal.
Oh for sure... Definitely pie in the sky.....
To be a top 60ish program in basketball or football was always tough for Wyoming.... The current system makes it nigh impossible.
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Apr 18, 2023 9:10 am
Oredigger, was it you who brought up the possibility of schools who take transfers somehow compensating the schools who lose transfers? Somehow there has to be a down side to taking every top transfer from the smaller programs.
No, I believe that was Ragtime. I don't see it being viable for a couple reasons.
(1) Why would the big programs agree to that? If the NCAA requires such a restriction/requirement, I could see the Big Programs saying OK, we will just leave the NCAA.
(2) I'm not sure that such a restriction/requirement would pass Anti-Trust law muster. So I'm not even sure it would be legal.
I don't necessarily disagree and it most certainly would require legislative intervention. I do think you overestimate the P5 cohesiveness at least for anything outside the top 16 or so programs. Everyone knows that if something isn't done, nobody outside of those programs will ever stand a chance.
With that said, I doubt much happens. Gotta get used to transfers. WYO will be hurt more than others. It likely ends any real chance at even a MWC championship in bball or football.
WYO1016 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 08, 2023 8:10 am
I'm starting to think that Burman has been laying the pipe to ragtimejoe1's wife
Insults are the last resort of fools with a crumbling position.
