I agree with Coach Kelsey...

[LawPoke]

From a recent article:

“I really believe in today’s game that you can get good quick,” Kelsey said. “You look at what we did two years ago at Charleston. Had a magical season. Top 25, won 31 games, won 22 in a row. Season ends and a bunch of grad transfers graduated, a couple other guys went Power Five. We had four guys on our roster in the middle of April, and we rebuilt it and we did it again.”

I also believe that coaches need to win over fans and boosters to entice them to fund NIL. Today, cash is a prerequisite to going into a kid's home and coming out with a commitment. If the fans and boosters don't believe in a program, they can sink it just as quickly as someone like Pat Kelsey or Sprinkle can build it.

Linder has all of the tools required to build a winner. He needs a vision and he needs to sell it to the fans and recruits. Quit whining and making excuses. He needs to build it and win or be given the gate, as my college friend used to say after he broke up with one of many girlfriends.

[TheRealUW]

The same Pat Kelsey whose Charleston team lost to Jeff Linder and Wyoming in Myrtle Beach back in November?

The same Pat Kelsey who started 22 games at Wyoming as a true Freshman before he decided he was better than UW and transferred to Xavier where he never started another college game again?

Everything he is saying may be correct and he may be a great coach, but the source just rubs me the wrong way. We will see how he does at Louisville.

[LawPoke]

The same Pat Kelsey whose Charleston team lost to Jeff Linder and Wyoming in Myrtle Beach back in November?

The same Pat Kelsey who started 22 games at Wyoming as a true Freshman before he decided he was better than UW and transferred to Xavier where he never started another college game again?

Everything he is saying may be correct and he may be a great coach, but the source just rubs me the wrong way. We will see how he does at Louisville.

Same guy.

I agree with his quote. That’s all. I don’t quibble with anything else that irks you about him - other than to say his team improved and went to the Dance - admittedly in a weaker conference. Ours tanked and wasn’t competitive in way too many games - and is currently comprised of kids that are more fit to play in the CAA.

[307bball]

From a recent article:

“I really believe in today’s game that you can get good quick,” Kelsey said. “You look at what we did two years ago at Charleston. Had a magical season. Top 25, won 31 games, won 22 in a row. Season ends and a bunch of grad transfers graduated, a couple other guys went Power Five. We had four guys on our roster in the middle of April, and we rebuilt it and we did it again.”

I also believe that coaches need to win over fans and boosters to entice them to fund NIL. Today, cash is a prerequisite to going into a kid's home and coming out with a commitment. If the fans and boosters don't believe in a program, they can sink it just as quickly as someone like Pat Kelsey or Sprinkle can build it.

Linder has all of the tools required to build a winner. He needs a vision and he needs to sell it to the fans and recruits. Quit whining and making excuses. He needs to build it and win or be given the gate, as my college friend used to say after he broke up with one of many girlfriends.

If his statement that "cash is a prerequisite" is true then I don't think Linderr (or any Wyoming coach) has all the tools. Wyoming athletics fans and followers do an admirable job of supporting the University and facilities ... but that is not translating to money in the pocket of prospective college athletes considering Wyoming.

It's not that Wyoming athletes will make zero...it's that the best programs in our conference have a deeper bucket of that kind of cash around their program than Wyoming does.

[LawPoke]

From a recent article:

“I really believe in today’s game that you can get good quick,” Kelsey said. “You look at what we did two years ago at Charleston. Had a magical season. Top 25, won 31 games, won 22 in a row. Season ends and a bunch of grad transfers graduated, a couple other guys went Power Five. We had four guys on our roster in the middle of April, and we rebuilt it and we did it again.”

I also believe that coaches need to win over fans and boosters to entice them to fund NIL. Today, cash is a prerequisite to going into a kid's home and coming out with a commitment. If the fans and boosters don't believe in a program, they can sink it just as quickly as someone like Pat Kelsey or Sprinkle can build it.

Linder has all of the tools required to build a winner. He needs a vision and he needs to sell it to the fans and recruits. Quit whining and making excuses. He needs to build it and win or be given the gate, as my college friend used to say after he broke up with one of many girlfriends.

If his statement that "cash is a prerequisite" is true then I don't think Linderr (or any Wyoming coach) has all the tools. Wyoming athletics fans and followers do an admirable job of supporting the University and facilities ... but that is not translating to money in the pocket of prospective college athletes considering Wyoming.

It's not that Wyoming athletes will make zero...it's that the best programs in our conference have a deeper bucket of that kind of cash around their program than Wyoming does.

My argument is that Linder can go a long way to bring in the cash he needs. At the end of the day, he can either whine and complain, or he can start to rebuild his relationship and rapport with donors and the state, which means more money for him to go find players. He needs to create and sell a solid vision to do that. Right now, his program looks like a beat up 1972 Gremlin on blocks to most observers - not exactly inspiring confidence or excitement to justify investment. At some point, you have to resolve the quandary of "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" and simply start working on what you can control. You need NIL to build a team these days. You need excitement and confidence to attract donations to NIL. Jeff and Burman can lament NIL, attendance, and other problems, or he can grab the bull by the horns and earn trust, confidence and NIL contributions. As others have said, between inflation, cost of tickets, hidden costs of tickets (CJC donations, etc.), Foundation requests and the like, the average donor is getting hit up more than a hooker in a $1 "friendly ladies" house. To compete for those dollars in an NIL space, you have to shine. A crappy, rusted out 1972 Gremlin doesn't shine - and NIL isn't a compelling case for most. In fact, most see it as abhorrent.

[307bball]

If his statement that "cash is a prerequisite" is true then I don't think Linderr (or any Wyoming coach) has all the tools. Wyoming athletics fans and followers do an admirable job of supporting the University and facilities ... but that is not translating to money in the pocket of prospective college athletes considering Wyoming.

It's not that Wyoming athletes will make zero...it's that the best programs in our conference have a deeper bucket of that kind of cash around their program than Wyoming does.

My argument is that Linder can go a long way to bring in the cash he needs. At the end of the day, he can either whine and complain, or he can start to rebuild his relationship and rapport with donors and the state, which means more money for him to go find players. He needs to create and sell a solid vision to do that. Right now, his program looks like a beat up 1972 Gremlin on blocks to most observers - not exactly inspiring confidence or excitement to justify investment. At some point, you have to resolve the quandary of "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" and simply start working on what you can control. You need NIL to build a team these days. You need excitement and confidence to attract donations to NIL. Jeff and Burman can lament NIL, attendance, and other problems, or he can grab the bull by the horns and earn trust, confidence and NIL contributions. As others have said, between inflation, cost of tickets, hidden costs of tickets (CJC donations, etc.), Foundation requests and the like, the average donor is getting hit up more than a hooker in a $1 "friendly ladies" house. To compete for those dollars in an NIL space, you have to shine. A crappy, rusted out 1972 Gremlin doesn't shine - and NIL isn't a compelling case for most. In fact, most see it as abhorrent.

Agree that the whining and complaining does not get anybody anywhere.

The problem I see is that, within the State of Wyoming, what is possible is less than the folks at the top of the conference. To get onto even footing with them, we'll have to get NIL $$ from outside the state. I just don't see any other way....and that seems like an incredible long shot.

[TheRealUW]

Significant NIL money very well may be a prerequisite to athletic success...at least for the next decade while the system is in its Wild West unregulated infancy phase. If that is the case, it very well may be the downfall of UW athletics as we have known them in the modern era. There are a lot of Wyoming fans/donors who are so opposed to the current structure of NIL that they would be willing to watch the athletics program completely fail before they would be willing to participate in the NIL game.

I think NIL is going to look very different in 10-15 years and will probably be a lot more palatable to the average Wyoming fan/donor by that time. What shape will Wyoming athletics be in by the time we get there? I have no idea.

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

Significant NIL money very well may be a prerequisite to athletic success...at least for the next decade while the system is in its Wild West unregulated infancy phase. If that is the case, it very well may be the downfall of UW athletics as we have known them in the modern era. There are a lot of Wyoming fans/donors who are so opposed to the current structure of NIL that they would be willing to watch the athletics program completely fail before they would be willing to participate in the NIL game.

I think NIL is going to look very different in 10-15 years and will probably be a lot more palatable to the average Wyoming fan/donor by that time. What shape will Wyoming athletics be in by the time we get there? I have no idea.

Yep, exactly right. That is why coaches like John Calipari and Nick Saban left their coaching positions, because of their former school's inabilities to embrace NIL.

[TheRealUW]

[quote=TheRealUW post_id=279995 time=<a href="tel:1712786953">1712786953</a> user_id=296]
Significant NIL money very well may be a prerequisite to athletic success...at least for the next decade while the system is in its Wild West unregulated infancy phase. If that is the case, it very well may be the downfall of UW athletics as we have known them in the modern era. There are a lot of Wyoming fans/donors who are so opposed to the current structure of NIL that they would be willing to watch the athletics program completely fail before they would be willing to participate in the NIL game.

I think NIL is going to look very different in 10-15 years and will probably be a lot more palatable to the average Wyoming fan/donor by that time. What shape will Wyoming athletics be in by the time we get there? I have no idea.

Yep, exactly right. That is why coaches like John Calipari and Nick Saban left their coaching positions, because of their former school's inabilities to embrace NIL.
[/quote]

I’m not sure the schools have any say in the matter. Schools have no ability to compensate the athletes directly. That is what is so bizarre about the current NIL structure. These athletes play sports for the schools, but are only allowed to be compensated by outside businesses, donors, and fans.

Imagine a business in which the employers were banned from paying their employees and the employees wages were based solely on voluntary tips from customers. You better have access to a high tipping clientele or your business is in trouble quickly. Welcome to the current structure of NIL.

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

^NIL forces the schools to include it in their marketing and recruiting. "Hey, come to Alabama because not only will you play for a national title every year, but you will earn all these NIL deals because you could be one of the best athletes in the nation. We will support you."

Do you really think schools don't pay their athletes? They have been for decades under the table.

[TheRealUW]

^NIL forces the schools to include it in their marketing and recruiting. "Hey, come to Alabama because not only will you play for a national title every year, but you will earn all these NIL deals because you could be one of the best athletes in the nation. We will support you."

Do you really think schools don't pay their athletes? They have been for decades under the table.

I don’t believe that athletes have been directly compensated by schools now or any time in the recent past. For public schools, that would be misappropriation of state government funds. Not only would it be running afoul of NCAA rules but also state laws.

I don’t doubt that elite college athletes have been compensated through various means long before NIL was a thing. I just think those compensations were coming from ‘back alley’ sources and not directly from school funds.

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

^NIL forces the schools to include it in their marketing and recruiting. "Hey, come to Alabama because not only will you play for a national title every year, but you will earn all these NIL deals because you could be one of the best athletes in the nation. We will support you."

Do you really think schools don't pay their athletes? They have been for decades under the table.

I don’t believe that athletes have been directly compensated by schools now or any time in the recent past. For public schools, that would be misappropriation of state government funds. Not only would it be running afoul of NCAA rules but also state laws.

I don’t doubt that elite college athletes have been compensated through various means long before NIL was a thing. I just think those compensations were coming from ‘back alley’ sources and not directly from school funds.

Yes, this is what I meant.

[TheRealUW]

While this "back alley" compensation of athletes was probably ubiquitous at larger programs across the country, I don't think it was occurring to any significant degree at UW.

When compensation of college athletes became legal through NIL laws, it gave schools who already had "illegal" compensation systems in place a massive advantage. Those schools already had large sums of money lined up from outside boosters/donors - the only thing that changed was that they could now do it legally. Schools like UW were left scrambling to find NEW sources of compensation for their athletes. This has proven to be a difficult task.

I do think the athletics department at UW is well aware of the importance of NIL funds to recruiting and retaining athletes, especially for football and men's basketball. But to a large degree, their hands are tied. They are not allowed to fund NIL payments directly, so the only thing they can do is attempt to convince outside donors and businesses to contribute significant funds to them through NIL collectives - a tall order in a state like Wyoming where many fans are fundamentally opposed to paying college athletes, especially those who have not proven anything on the field. UW also has far fewer alumni than many schools and many of those alumni move out of state and lose their connection to athletic department at UW. Also less corporate options for donations in Wyoming too.

A lot of reasons (excuses?) for the UW athletics department to fail. They have a steep hill to climb to compete in today's environment.

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

^Totally agree. I should have been more specific. No, UW was likely not paying its players all along. Really I feel like only big name schools, those with big boosters, etc. Though right now it seems like NIL isn't gaining a lot of traction at smaller schools/programs, I feel it will take a couple more years to ramp up. Schools are probably still in the early phases of evaluating NIL and outside investors are still gauging the entire process. Maybe like a monkey see, monkey do, with what the bigger schools do.

[307bball]

While this "back alley" compensation of athletes was probably ubiquitous at larger programs across the country, I don't think it was occurring to any significant degree at UW.

When compensation of college athletes became legal through NIL laws, it gave schools who already had "illegal" compensation systems in place a massive advantage. Those schools already had large sums of money lined up from outside boosters/donors - the only thing that changed was that they could now do it legally. Schools like UW were left scrambling to find NEW sources of compensation for their athletes. This has proven to be a difficult task.

I do think the athletics department at UW is well aware of the importance of NIL funds to recruiting and retaining athletes, especially for football and men's basketball. But to a large degree, their hands are tied. They are not allowed to fund NIL payments directly, so the only thing they can do is attempt to convince outside donors and businesses to contribute significant funds to them through NIL collectives - a tall order in a state like Wyoming where many fans are fundamentally opposed to paying college athletes, especially those who have not proven anything on the field. UW also has far fewer alumni than many schools and many of those alumni move out of state and lose their connection to athletic department at UW. Also less corporate options for donations in Wyoming too.

A lot of reasons (excuses?) for the UW athletics department to fail. They have a steep hill to climb to compete in today's environment.

You are speaking my language here. Player compensation has been going on for a very long time all over the place at the high levels. There was an article years ago about college football "bag men" and how these schemes go pretty much undetected and the schools and coaches (at least the head coaches) maintain deniability. Now they don't even have to worry about keeping everything clandestine.