coaching

[one-smooth-poke]

So, how many of you are ready to give Schoyer more time and money with this coaching position? I have said it once and I will say it again. Schoyer has no business coaching here or at D1. He is a sub par, sub .500 coach and always will be. After watching the last couple of games, I have come to the conclusion that there is NO COACHING going on in the game. He sits over on the bench and bitches to the ref's. Well, here is to another 5 years of crappy coaching with Schoyer. And again, dont get me wrong, I am NOT advocating McClain, I have agreed that he should have been fired (just didnt like the manner that Burman did it). But, hiring a "buddy" wasnt the right thing to do. Schoyer needs to go.....soon or this program will be stuck in this situation for a looooooong time.

[Adv8RU12]

Hiring a buddy first and a coach second is what grates on the nerves. That makes firing a lot harder, doesn't it?

[one-smooth-poke]

I guess when Burman realizes that his job may be on the line then it may not be so hard. Many people said Burmans job would rest with Schoyers performance. I will not hide the fact (nor appologize) that I am not a Burman fan either. So, maybe it will be for the best. But, to me, a few things are clear. 1. This team is NOT better than it was last year, 2. This "bigs" that Schoyer was all high on are not as good as advertised, 3. Schoyer is not, nor has he been a defensive guru. He sucked when he was a head coach before, he sucks now. Nothing has changed. I can remember when everyone was talking about Liskens and Waddel and how good they were gonna be, etc., and how good of a recruiter Schoyer is. Fact is simple: Liskins is lazy and generally NOT a good ball player. Waddel is NOT being coached well. Coaching is the issue here, and Schoyer sucks!!!

[bladerunnr]

His handling of players he inherited is what concerns me. Brad Jones regressed terribly last year. Ewing is regressing this year. Either they can't play in his system or the system doesn't fit their games. It seems to me that the system should adapt to the talent on the court. When the guy from New Mexico got hot, they set one screen after another for him. We sure don't do that for Ewing or Ogirri.

So instead, we get Thiam chucking up 3 pointers. Nice offense.

[one-smooth-poke]

His handling of players he inherited is what concerns me. Brad Jones regressed terribly last year. Ewing is regressing this year. Either they can't play in his system or the system doesn't fit their games. It seems to me that the system should adapt to the talent on the court. When the guy from New Mexico got hot, they set one screen after another for him. We sure don't do that for Ewing or Ogirri.

So instead, we get Thiam chucking up 3 pointers. Nice offense.

Doesnt this go to coaching? And its not only his handling of the players he "inherited" but also the current players. This is piss poor coaching. Plain and simple. I remember all the "hype" about how this team was gonna be so much better. What happened to that? What is the record if you take away all the games like the culinary school? We are terrible. The difference is that I am not afraid to say it or admit it. Schoyers "major" recruits have done squat! He ran off two good ball players at the end of last season (when they transfered) and all the "all knowing" and "know it all" posters said they were not good enough to play D1. WTF? They would have made this team better! And, seriously, who can say that Liskins is D1? I cant. Watching him move on the floor is like watching ice melt...slow and painfully tedious! There is absolutely no team chemistry on the court, no defense what so ever, and no coaching. Another sub .500 season is here and thus Schoyer stays at under .500 for his overall win/loss record as a head coach.

[Adv8RU12]

Shroyer, in my observation, for sure has mis-managed Ewing. How Ewing is the leading scorer is a miracle, given what Shroyer has done to him. He is way too reined in offensively by Shroyer. I think he could have easily had a shot at being the all-time MWC scoring leader if not for Shroyer.

Even the announcers for CBS Sports for the NM game wondered why Brandon and Sean, having the potential to be prolific scorers, were not putting the ball up much more. Probably because Shroyer said something like "pass the ball around eight times (or until you lose it) before you shoot a desperate shot to beat the clock - and get it itside if possible so that the other team can build up some turn-over stats".

Having non-mtn. announcers and network do a game is sort of refreshing - they can point out the flaws without having to worry about what the conference and the coaches think.

[wellpoke]

First, let me say that I'm no basketball guru, and I'm not a huge Schroyer fan. But I think we're jumping the gun a little bit. Schroyer inherited a program that was in the tank, an on the verge of losing multiple scholarships for multiple years (aren't we still short one scholly?). IMHO, players left because they either couldn't or wouldn't cut it academically. The team he was left with and was able to cobble together was not impressive last year, an we all know that.

This season, he went with a cupcake schedule in order to boost win totals. Good idea? I don't know, but we've won the games we should, had a chance at a couple of road games (Boise St and TCU), and been blown out a couple of times as well. All things I would reasonably expect from a young team and a young coach learning to play in the MWC.

And here's the real kicker. We've got 5 of the last 8 at home, with road games at CSewe and AF. I'd say any of those are winnable games, especially the way this team plays at home. My point is this, after tomorrow night, we'll have a much clearer picture of where we are. Can we beat Utah, UNLV and BYU at home? I think it's possible, but it depends on which team shows up.

Get down on Schroyer if you want, I could care less. But don't give up on this team just yet. I do believe they're better than last year, especially at home. We've got long way to go, but it's a far cry from where we were when McClain left.

GO POKES!

[McPeachy]

Doesnt this go to coaching? And its not only his handling of the players he "inherited" but also the current players. This is piss poor coaching. Plain and simple. I remember all the "hype" about how this team was gonna be so much better. What happened to that? What is the record of you take away all the games like the culinary school? We are terrible. The difference is that I am not afraid to say it or admit it. Schoyers "major" recruits have done squat! He ran off two good ball players at the end of last season (when they transfered) and all the "all knowing" and "know it all" posters said they were not good enough to play D1. WTF? They would have made this team better! And, seriously, who can say that Liskins is D1? I cant. Watching him move on the floor is like watching ice melt...slow and painfully tedious! There is absolutely no team chemistry on the court, no defense what so ever, and no coaching. Another sub .500 season is here and thus Schoyer stays at under .500 for his overall win/loss record as a head coach.

Are you referring to Platt & Nelson? If so, I am sorry...but both Platt & Nelson were horrible. Especially Platt. McClain recruited Platt to save his ass another year by pulling the "in-state kid" card out and using it. I am sure he holds the record for most 3-point attempt airballs for a season at UW. And Nelson...well...he is far worse than dough-boy Liskins, and 1/2 the size. He got tossed around like a ragdoll inside the paint. If stonefingers Waddell can learn to handle the ball, we won't remember either though.

I share some of the same frustrations though...but don't know necessarily it all points to Heath (at this point). Hell, UW gave PianoJoe 6 years, I at least feel Heath should get 4. And if it doesn't pan out, then that is Burman's situation to deal with, just like it was his with McClain, Glenn, etc. I don't think Tom would put his own ass on the line to just "hire a buddy".

[Danmully]

i actually disagree with those who say we are better off then what McClain left us(atleast on the court we are better off academically). Got to remember Mcclain left us with the to top scorers in the confernce in Brad Jones And Ewing an ahthletic big man in taylor and all three took a step back( jones and taylor more so than ewing)with Shroyer. And we hardly ever got blown out usually really competitive.( Remember After the fight and af killed us is the only one i can really remember)last years team i thought had a lot of promise and it went down the drain by hiring a new coach. As for saying Nelson is worse than linskins is flatt out wrong.I'm not saying Nelson was the next Reggie Slater but come on dude Linskins might be be to basketball what Aric Goodman is to kicking. I guess what thebiggest part of coaching comes down to is getting the most outta your player, understanding what your personell is and how to use it on the court, and i think so far Shroyer has shown he is a step back from what we use to have. maybe he'secruiting might be he'savior but we'll have to see on that.

[PApokesPhan]

When Schroyer was hired, everyone was saying how at his THIRD year at Portland St the team turned around and made a huge run for themselves. Give it time, next year outta be better, thats is what i expected. Get ewing outta here. hes a good player for mwc, and hell be good overseas. Schroyers players next year will be young, but also more athletic. I dont think next year will be the turn around year, but the year after should be with Luster, Muojeke, M'Baye, Thiam, and Sylla.

[one-smooth-poke]

Ok, to respond to those in kind, I will start with McPeachy:
McPeachy: Seriously, are you suggesting that Platte or Nelson are not any better than Liskins or some of the other plays? Serioulsy? Come on. Take off the brown and gold glasses and look objectively at this team when they play today. And it may not be ALL Schroyer right now, but, if it walk like a duck, talks like a duck....its a duck! This is poor coaching, plain and simple. Hell, in one interview after the BYU(/) or New Mexico(?) game, he stated that the team got a basket after a time out and that showed progress. I thought REALLY? This late in the season and they are just now learning? Wow, poor coaching. And, Burman DID put his job on the line to hire a buddy. Most people know that. Most people said that his hire of Schroyer would define his job as the AD. How is that working out? He hired a sub .500 coach who has only had one season above .500 in his life (as a head coach). He was claimed to be a "defensive guru." Once again, how is that working out? Worst defense that I can remember having at UW for a long time. And give him 4 years? Serioulsy? Joe got so much time because he won a bowl game. But hell, if people are content with a sub.500 coach with a PROVEN losing record, then have at it. I wont spend my money to help Schroyer keep his job. He was a terrible hire by his "buddy" and he is only getting worse.
Wellpoke: Once again, I am not defending McClain. You are agressively comparing McClain to Schoyer. If you want to do that, you also have to include the conference championships and NCAA tourneys and NIT tourneys that McClain got us to. As far as having a "young" coach, when this hire was made, Burman said we had an "experienced" coach who knows how to turn around a program. How is that working out? He hired a coach who has a proven track record of losing. It will continue here. You are apparently satified with a sub .500 win rate when most of the wins came from teams like Johnson and Wales. I am not.
Adv8RU12: thank you. I couldnt agree more. And, the golden rule in ANY business is that when you hire your buddy to do a job, if they fail to live up to expectations, then you are the one to blame. Whereas if a coach was hired that was not a buddy, then failure falls on the coach, not the AD. Burman is way into "cronyism" i.e., "smiley" and Schroyer. And its not working out very well for him OR the University.
Bladerunnr: Couldnt agree more. The regression is a sign of the poor coaching and an unability to use his best weapons to his advantage.
PApokesPhan: WTF? Are you on crack? Glenn took the team to a bowl game right way. He was given 6 years because he won a bowl game. If Glenn would not have won the bowl game, he would have not gotten the extention on his contract and would have been fired a long time ago. Next years players will be young and more athletic? What crystal ball are you looking through? Cause from what I see, we will be about the same or worse when the seniors leave this year. And, after last years great performance, EVERYONE said "wait till next year, we will be better." Take away the cupcake schedule and UW is 6 games below .500 going into conference play.

[McPeachy]

Ok, to respond to those in kind, I will start with McPeachy:
McPeachy: Seriously, are you suggesting that Platte or Nelson are not any better than Liskins or some of the other plays? Serioulsy? Come on.

Yes, I am saying Liskins is better than Platt or Nelson. And yes, Liskins sucks and will probably never amount to much (which is more than Platt or Nelson). Platt was Eggbert #2, except that Eggbert had more desire, energy, and skill. Platt was the worst player to wear the brown & gold this century hands down. Nelson had ZERO room for improvement...unlike doughboy Liskins (who yes, I think has an upside).

You stated that UW (and Heath) ran out good players in Platt & Nelson...my point is that they are both FAR from being good players. They were both pathetic.

[MrTitleist]

Remember the days of David Rottinghouse? Those were the days..... great 6th man.

[PApokesPhan]

Yes, I am saying Liskins is better than Platt or Nelson. And yes, Liskins sucks and will probably never amount to much (which is more than Platt or Nelson). Platt was Eggbert #2, except that Eggbert had more desire, energy, and skill. Platt was the worst player to wear the brown & gold this century hands down. Nelson had ZERO room for improvement...unlike doughboy Liskins (who yes, I think has an upside).

You stated that UW (and Heath) ran out good players in Platt & Nelson...my point is that they are both FAR from being good players. They were both pathetic.

I dont think i could agree with you more! Platt was slow and not all to athletic, he could sometimes hit the three. Nelson did fight hard, but he wasnt anything good. I remember seeing him trying to dunk at Half Acre and it was kinda funny.

Linskens just needs to be calm and be smart. He can play ball better than nelson, and much better than platt.

[WyoCow85]

I haven't been to a game since very early in the season as I have been out in Cali, and this season is certainly a little disappointing.

But what I'm really noticing from this board, is that there are two widening classes of Cowboy fans. I can tell from many of the posts on here that most of you must have been fans since quite a while ago. When I started school at UW I was a major Poke fan having grown up in Laramie. In the 10-15 years I can remember prior to starting school, Wyoming athletics were a big deal. Obviously not on a national level, but in Wyoming, and especially Laramie, Brown and Gold were huge.

I saw this in the students at UW my freshman year. Students are WAY more disinterested now, and probably for good reason. There is nothing to be excited about anymore. Not only are most of the teams struggling in general, home games are a joke now! The student section is only half full on game days in the Fall because its still the best thing to do drunk before the sun goes down. Nobody really even shows up to watch the games anymore, because everyone knows they'll be at the Library by halftime for good.

I can't remember the last time I truly enjoyed a Men's Bball game at the AA, and thats scary. Even the CSU/Utah/and BYU home games draw around 5-7 K these days. That's absolutely pathetic.

The athletics department has time when it comes to the football team. There is so much history there, and so much behind "Game day at the War"... those things will keep the boat afloat until things are straightened out competitively... but the basketball program is in TROUBLE. Things have been bad or terrible for well over a decade now, and people are beginning to simply not care anymore.

[MrTitleist]

Best Cowboy basketball game I ever attended was UW vs. Utah for the MWC crown in 2001 (or was it 2002?).. student section was packed, crowd was crazy, Pokes cut down the net on the home court.. good stuff.

[nirv117]

That was a good one. I think I have that game on DVD somewhere (Converted from VHS)

I may have to go watch it to remember the good times (and watch me and my brother storm the court)

[wellpoke]

Hang on a second smooth-poke. I didn't compare McClain to Schroyer. I was happy with when McClain was fired and lukewarm when Schroyer was hired. I'm still not convinced he's the right man for this job.

Your original question asked who was ready to give Schroyer more time. My point was simply that I think he deserves more time because Schroyer inherited a program that was in the tank, and has done what he could to turn it around. That hasn't translated to conference wins yet and it may well be because he isn't the coach Burman thought he was. I dont' really know, but I wasn't comparing him to McClain.

I will say that after watching the Utah game in Laramie, my expectations have changed. I thought that game would really tell us how the rest of the season would go, and it doesn't look pretty. Defense is terrible, and it seems like the guys are just going through the motions. I'm hoping Schroyer can use the long week to make some of those changes, but I'm not holding my breath at this point.