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OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 6:17 pm
Wyoming’s highest regular season win total since 1996.

2016 would like a word. Phrasing matters; don't be disingenuous.

Anyway, sure, he had a great season (by his and our standards, I guess?). One that ended with the same result because of glaring issues that he hasn't been able to fix in ten years.

No one gets as long of a leash as Bohl has gotten. Some of the toughest places to win at and recruit to in the entire country (ULM, UTEP, UNM) have already fired their coaches after far less time and after giving said coaches far fewer resources to work with.

The man is the highest paid, second-longest tenured coach in the MWC, with some of the best facilities, the most efficient booster club, etc. in the conference.

After ten years, he's at .500 with one 'ship appearance, no 'ships, an atrocious record on the road, an abysmal record against teams with a winning record, two 8-win regular seasons, and a sub-100 recruiting ranking every year. Statistically, he's only marginally better than his predecessor, who is universally hated and never held a HC job in the US again.

Yet he continues to be given twice the time and resources. For better or for worse, it's time to move on.

Jesus Christ, before this year, UNLV had had one winning season in 29 years...and they could possibly snag a championship before us. It's pathetic.

Craig Bohl was the right hire at the right time, and brought so much to a program that desperately needed it.

It's also time for both sides to move on.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

DamThatRiver22 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:14 am

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 6:17 pm
Wyoming’s highest regular season win total since 1996.

2016 would like a word. Phrasing matters; don't be disingenuous.

So would 2011 and 1998

DamThatRiver22 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:14 am

OrediggerPoke wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 6:17 pm
Wyoming’s highest regular season win total since 1996.

2016 would like a word. Phrasing matters; don't be disingenuous.

Anyway, sure, he had a great season (by his and our standards, I guess?). One that ended with the same result because of glaring issues that he hasn't been able to fix in ten years.

No one gets as long of a leash as Bohl has gotten. Some of the toughest places to win at and recruit to in the entire country (ULM, UTEP, UNM) have already fired their coaches after far less time and after giving said coaches far fewer resources to work with.

The man is the highest paid, second-longest tenured coach in the MWC, with some of the best facilities, the most efficient booster club, etc. in the conference.

After ten years, he's at .500 with one 'ship appearance, no 'ships, an atrocious record on the road, an abysmal record against teams with a winning record, two 8-win regular seasons, and a sub-100 recruiting ranking every year. Statistically, he's only marginally better than his predecessor, who is universally hated and never held a HC job in the US again.

Yet he continues to be given twice the time and resources. For better or for worse, it's time to move on.

Jesus Christ, before this year, UNLV had had one winning season in 29 years...and they could possibly snag a championship before us. It's pathetic.

Craig Bohl was the right hire at the right time, and brought so much to a program that desperately needed it.

It's also time for both sides to move on.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I pretty much agree except for the part about the "best facilities" line...that is just in the eye of the beholder. Wyoming has invested properly in the football program...let's not act like we are crushing it. The IPF and the HAPC are great .... but if Wyoming ever wins a chip...nobody will be saying "well of course...look at the athletic facilities".

307bball wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:21 am

DamThatRiver22 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 6:14 am

2016 would like a word. Phrasing matters; don't be disingenuous.

Anyway, sure, he had a great season (by his and our standards, I guess?). One that ended with the same result because of glaring issues that he hasn't been able to fix in ten years.

No one gets as long of a leash as Bohl has gotten. Some of the toughest places to win at and recruit to in the entire country (ULM, UTEP, UNM) have already fired their coaches after far less time and after giving said coaches far fewer resources to work with.

The man is the highest paid, second-longest tenured coach in the MWC, with some of the best facilities, the most efficient booster club, etc. in the conference.

After ten years, he's at .500 with one 'ship appearance, no 'ships, an atrocious record on the road, an abysmal record against teams with a winning record, two 8-win regular seasons, and a sub-100 recruiting ranking every year. Statistically, he's only marginally better than his predecessor, who is universally hated and never held a HC job in the US again.

Yet he continues to be given twice the time and resources. For better or for worse, it's time to move on.

Jesus Christ, before this year, UNLV had had one winning season in 29 years...and they could possibly snag a championship before us. It's pathetic.

Craig Bohl was the right hire at the right time, and brought so much to a program that desperately needed it.

It's also time for both sides to move on.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I pretty much agree except for the part about the "best facilities" line...that is just in the eye of the beholder. Wyoming has invested properly in the football program...let's not act like we are crushing it. The IPF and the HAPC are great .... but if Wyoming ever wins a chip...nobody will be saying "well of course...look at the athletic facilities".

You can't ignore facilities relative to peers, either. We invested and the top end diminished through expansion. Our position relative to peers improved quite a bit over the past 20 years. If it didn't matter to winning a championship, why do coaches always ask for better facilities for training, recruiting, etc.?

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:29 am

307bball wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:21 am

I pretty much agree except for the part about the "best facilities" line...that is just in the eye of the beholder. Wyoming has invested properly in the football program...let's not act like we are crushing it. The IPF and the HAPC are great .... but if Wyoming ever wins a chip...nobody will be saying "well of course...look at the athletic facilities".

You can't ignore facilities relative to peers, either. We invested and the top end diminished through expansion. Our position relative to peers improved quite a bit over the past 20 years. If it didn't matter to winning a championship, why do coaches always ask for better facilities for training, recruiting, etc.?

Nobody says they don't matter. Particularly if you are last in the conference in program investment.

I know i've said this before...and it may have been in conversation with you. Bad facilities will hamstring you but good facilities don't equal success. Program investment gets you a seat at the table but once you are somewhat at the level of your peers....other factors become more important.

There is an undercurrent of opinion that Wyoming has all of this infrastructure that should just automatically equal football success and I'm just not seeing it. The two examples that get trotted out are coaches salary and facilities. On the salary topic...if you rank the MW football programs by coach salary...Wyoming is at the top but it's not like it's double the next guys. If you want to be a winner in any conference you better be among the programs that pay the most for your coaches and i'm fine with that. The reason to hate on Bohl has to do with his record and limitations. The fact that he has been able to retain his job and make a lot of money is not his problem. As for Facilities...yeah..we are not at the bottom...great, now what? I guess recruits aren't looking at a dilapidated training room and facilities, but they aren't at most MW schools nowadays. Nobody is coming to Wyoming as a recruit for the facilities.

10 years and a 500 record at 60-60 @ UW purdy much sums it up as we're Wyoming and medocrity is ok

Wyokie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:56 pm

WYO_Fan_inPA wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:38 pm I don't think Bohl is the coach to take UW over the top to the next frontier of success. But you also have to think, who is? And who would come to Laramie to be that person?

Jerry Kill would be good. New Mexico State is actually playing for a conference title. Something neither UNM nor us could say. Helps to win road games.

The coach impressed me the most this year was the offensive coordinator for UNLV- Brannan Marion. He will get some attention from other schools looking to hire this year. I think he is probably someone to target if Bohl in fact retires after next season.

Mediocre is probably where we are at this moment from an FBS standpoint, but we've reached the upper half of MWC at least. With the recruiting landscape the way it is, and with the relatively small financial impact of the Wyoming alumni base compared to other programs, this is as good as it'll get. You're not going to get top talent to Wyoming anymore, and the few diamonds in the rough we find better not shine too much, or they'll be gone after a single season. Eight wins is way more than I expected from this season, so even though I'm upset with how bad we were on the road (and how awful we looked in the App State game), I can't say this season wasn't a very solid success overall.

stymeman wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:39 am 10 years and a 500 record at 60-60 @ UW purdy much sums it up as we're Wyoming and medocrity is ok

Those are nice round numbers. lol

307bball wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:06 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:29 am

You can't ignore facilities relative to peers, either. We invested and the top end diminished through expansion. Our position relative to peers improved quite a bit over the past 20 years. If it didn't matter to winning a championship, why do coaches always ask for better facilities for training, recruiting, etc.?

Nobody says they don't matter. Particularly if you are last in the conference in program investment.

I know i've said this before...and it may have been in conversation with you. Bad facilities will hamstring you but good facilities don't equal success. Program investment gets you a seat at the table but once you are somewhat at the level of your peers....other factors become more important.

There is an undercurrent of opinion that Wyoming has all of this infrastructure that should just automatically equal football success and I'm just not seeing it. The two examples that get trotted out are coaches salary and facilities. On the salary topic...if you rank the MW football programs by coach salary...Wyoming is at the top but it's not like it's double the next guys. If you want to be a winner in any conference you better be among the programs that pay the most for your coaches and i'm fine with that. The reason to hate on Bohl has to do with his record and limitations. The fact that he has been able to retain his job and make a lot of money is not his problem. As for Facilities...yeah..we are not at the bottom...great, now what? I guess recruits aren't looking at a dilapidated training room and facilities, but they aren't at most MW schools nowadays. Nobody is coming to Wyoming as a recruit for the facilities.

I think you're overlooking 10-15 years of coaches, Burman, etc. telling fans to shell out donations and taxes to fund buildings in order to compete at the top of the MWC. You shouldn't be surprised that the issue is raised when we aren't at the top of the MWC.

I will admit that I haven't been to all MWC facilities and I would also agree that their are limitations to the benefits of facilities relative to success. However, before the ipf and arguably hapc, WYO coaches were near the bottom in terms of facilities at least that's what the wyo admin claimed. Bohl hasn't had to endure that. The former point combined with the latter point make it a fair criticism in addition to those you point out.

doreno5 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:03 am

Wyokie wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:56 pm

Jerry Kill would be good. New Mexico State is actually playing for a conference title. Something neither UNM nor us could say. Helps to win road games.

The coach impressed me the most this year was the offensive coordinator for UNLV- Brannan Marion. He will get some attention from other schools looking to hire this year. I think he is probably someone to target if Bohl in fact retires after next season.

I hate the phase we’re heading into. Hiring a young coach such as a Marion will start the revolving door if successful. And being fired if not - coaching revolving door. I don’t know how that will ever change at UW.

Itsux2beaewe wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:37 pm

doreno5 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 10:03 am

The coach impressed me the most this year was the offensive coordinator for UNLV- Brannan Marion. He will get some attention from other schools looking to hire this year. I think he is probably someone to target if Bohl in fact retires after next season.

I hate the phase we’re heading into. Hiring a young coach such as a Marion will start the revolving door if successful. And being fired if not - coaching revolving door. I don’t know how that will ever change at UW.

At a time not so long ago Wyoming was thought of as one of the schools young coaches wanted to come to in order to move up. We had Wyatt, Dickens, Devaney, Akers, Dye, Erickson, Tiller among others who moved up after a few years here. at least 3 of those went on to win national championships. Being thought of as the Cradle of Coaches is not a bad thing if you want to bright innovative minds to accept the job.

WYO_Fan_inPA wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:38 pm I don't think Bohl is the coach to take UW over the top to the next frontier of success. But you also have to think, who is? And who would come to Laramie to be that person?

Any new coach that could get us 9 or 10 reg season wins would be gone in a breathe. But one has to ask, “are we good with that”? The more likely scenario is the coach gets fired for suckyness and we get to stand shoulder to shoulder with CSU

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:07 pm

307bball wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:06 am

Nobody says they don't matter. Particularly if you are last in the conference in program investment.

I know i've said this before...and it may have been in conversation with you. Bad facilities will hamstring you but good facilities don't equal success. Program investment gets you a seat at the table but once you are somewhat at the level of your peers....other factors become more important.

There is an undercurrent of opinion that Wyoming has all of this infrastructure that should just automatically equal football success and I'm just not seeing it. The two examples that get trotted out are coaches salary and facilities. On the salary topic...if you rank the MW football programs by coach salary...Wyoming is at the top but it's not like it's double the next guys. If you want to be a winner in any conference you better be among the programs that pay the most for your coaches and i'm fine with that. The reason to hate on Bohl has to do with his record and limitations. The fact that he has been able to retain his job and make a lot of money is not his problem. As for Facilities...yeah..we are not at the bottom...great, now what? I guess recruits aren't looking at a dilapidated training room and facilities, but they aren't at most MW schools nowadays. Nobody is coming to Wyoming as a recruit for the facilities.

I think you're overlooking 10-15 years of coaches, Burman, etc. telling fans to shell out donations and taxes to fund buildings in order to compete at the top of the MWC. You shouldn't be surprised that the issue is raised when we aren't at the top of the MWC.

I will admit that I haven't been to all MWC facilities and I would also agree that their are limitations to the benefits of facilities relative to success. However, before the ipf and arguably hapc, WYO coaches were near the bottom in terms of facilities at least that's what the wyo admin claimed. Bohl hasn't had to endure that. The former point combined with the latter point make it a fair criticism in addition to those you point out.

I don't think I'm overlooking it at all...there was a period of time after the highs of the Roach/Tiller years where program investment languished. That has been rectified, but I would hesitate to classify it as "top of the conference". It's not at the bottom and but we aren't blowing CSU SDSU and BSU out anytime soon when it comes to program investment. Every time this topic comes up there is a current of opinion that we are way above and beyond the rest of the MWC....that is not true. In overall program investment we are comfortably in the top half and also have the highest paid coach...just barely.

laxwyo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:58 pm

WYO_Fan_inPA wrote: ↑Sun Nov 26, 2023 12:38 pm I don't think Bohl is the coach to take UW over the top to the next frontier of success. But you also have to think, who is? And who would come to Laramie to be that person?

Any new coach that could get us 9 or 10 reg season wins would be gone in a breathe. But one has to ask, “are we good with that”? The more likely scenario is the coach gets fired for suckyness and we get to stand shoulder to shoulder with CSU

Candidly had Bohl done that here early in his tenure he would have been gone too. That is the way of bigtime college football . Duke just lost their coach to Texas A & M . There will be others as well before too long.

Stepping stone vs medocrity...just can't get a break at 7220? I think I'd take 9-3's 10-2s and a cya coach than another long term 500 coach...but I'm crazy, Pokes Crazy, and getting to be an older gentleman lol

Marion may skip other G5 jobs entirely; his name is already being mentioned for P5 jobs. Dude is, and has been, on the ultra fast track.

Which is, of course, giving fans of those teams pause as well. Lol.

I agree that this is 100% how CFB works now and we have to accept it. But, Marion does appear to be at the extreme end of that.

I still really want Jay Hill; BYU threw a bag at him to finally pull him from Weber State, but I wonder if it would be possible to get him here. He makes just shy of $1 mil there; I wonder if something like $1.4 mil (plus incentives) and complete control of the program (a la Bohl)....with yearly increases based on tenure, performance and accounting for, uh, CFB-flation...would be enough to sway him?

Vigen is an option provided he continues to stay far away from QB coaching and playcalling. He may not have been a great QBC or OC, but he's shown he's a great HC and delegator in a similar situation (taking over a previously stable but not dominant team and improving it). Only thing I wonder about is if he'd even be willing to come back, considering we pretty much ran him out of town the first time.

This opinion got me burned at the stake here last time, but I would not be opposed to bringing Arroyo back. Dude's a great recruiter (remember, he recruited and helped develop Brett Smith...and Odom's current team still has a ton of players Arroyo recruited). Dude had some ups and downs (but mostly ups, I mean FFS he's a PAC-12 champ) on P5 teams where he was hamstrung a bit by bad coaches and co-OCs. He took over an impossible situation at UNLV and was right on the verge of getting it turned around before they suddenly sh*tcanned him, to the surprise of even a lot of UNLV fans. I really, truly don't think he'd be a terrible hire. Maybe give him a short leash since our program is already stable, but yea.

Rolo is looking and no vaccine mandate here.

I know. Dimel! The pool table signs could be epic. Of course, kids today would have no idea... maybe they weren't born yet. Well, maybe 1 was born within a year

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:19 pm Rolo is looking and no vaccine mandate here.

I know. Dimel! The pool table signs could be epic. Of course, kids today would have no idea... maybe they weren't born yet. Well, maybe 1 was born within a year

We need to look at forward coaching not retreads to stay relevant in D1 football (forever how many more years we are part of that)

stymeman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:29 pm

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2023 1:19 pm Rolo is looking and no vaccine mandate here.

I know. Dimel! The pool table signs could be epic. Of course, kids today would have no idea... maybe they weren't born yet. Well, maybe 1 was born within a year

We need to look at forward coaching not retreads to stay relevant in D1 football (forever how many more years we are part of that)

Signed, nmsu

Just kidding, on both posts.

My official position is overhaul administration first and coaching second. Do not do either without the other. Bohl is the ceiling for our current administration. Might as well stay at the ceiling if we're not changing administration.