WyoNation.com

Disclaimer: I believe in the vaccines, have received a vaccine, and overall support the concept that they are effective.

Requiring people to get them is complete BS. You can argue every other vaccine requirement you want, but there is one major difference. You must sign paperwork absolving all your rights and place the risk solely on yourself to receive the vaccine. If the vaccine is so safe, then this mandate needs to be absolved. Vaccine manufacturers should be sued if they cause serious side effects. Companies or governments forcing you to relinquish your rights to get a vaccine is complete poop.

We also now know vaccinated people can contract and spread the virus. We theorize that because symptoms are less severe if you are vaccinated that your immune system eliminates the virus prior to being able to foster the rise of a variant. However, that has not been conclusively shown. In other words, based on the science, it appears the vaccine mainly protects the individual and not necessarily the spread of the virus which isn't that surprising. Forcing people to take an experimental vaccine to protect themselves is unethical particularly in lowly susceptible groups.

We are also now learning that it appears there will be numerous animal reservoirs. If it is determined that the virus can jump from rodents, deer, etc. back to humans, all our efforts are a lost cause anyway. The animal reservoirs will yield countless variants over the years and the variants that are resistant to vaccination will pop up in the human population.

It's time to discuss this as it is: we can't contain, control, or protect against this thing.

Nailed it, ragtime!

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:21 am Disclaimer: I believe in the vaccines, have received a vaccine, and overall support the concept that they are effective.

Requiring people to get them is complete BS.

Normally, I'd be willing to let anti-vaccers rot. But most of those people taking up hospitals in heavily hit states, are those that refused to get the vaccine. Taking away not only beds, but doctors, nurses, and other hospital staff from other emergency cases.

fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:50 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:21 am Disclaimer: I believe in the vaccines, have received a vaccine, and overall support the concept that they are effective.

Requiring people to get them is complete BS.

Normally, I'd be willing to let anti-vaccers rot. But most of those people taking up hospitals in heavily hit states, are those that refused to get the vaccine. Taking away not only beds, but doctors, nurses, and other hospital staff from other emergency cases.

States with highest vaccination rates: Vermont, Mass, Maine, Conn, Rhode Island, Maryland
States with highest hospitalization rates: Vermont, Rhode Island, Hawaii (18th highest vaccination rate), Wisconsin (21st highest vaccination rate), South Dakota

I also understand that the breakthrough hospitalization rate is low; as I said, I believe in the effectiveness of the vaccines.

Why won't the vaccine companies relinquish the requirement that you must sign your rights away in order to receive the vaccine? If it is safe, it is safe. Forcing people to relinquish their rights and subject their body to an experimental vaccine is unethical. Remove the requirement to relinquish your rights, and I might have a different opinion.

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:03 am

fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:50 am

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:21 am Disclaimer: I believe in the vaccines, have received a vaccine, and overall support the concept that they are effective.

Requiring people to get them is complete BS.

Normally, I'd be willing to let anti-vaccers rot. But most of those people taking up hospitals in heavily hit states, are those that refused to get the vaccine. Taking away not only beds, but doctors, nurses, and other hospital staff from other emergency cases.

States with highest vaccination rates: Vermont, Mass, Maine, Conn, Rhode Island, Maryland
States with highest hospitalization rates: Vermont, Rhode Island, Hawaii (18th highest vaccination rate), Wisconsin (21st highest vaccination rate), South Dakota

I also understand that the breakthrough hospitalization rate is low; as I said, I believe in the effectiveness of the vaccines.

Why won't the vaccine companies relinquish the requirement that you must sign your rights away in order to receive the vaccine? If it is safe, it is safe. Forcing people to relinquish their rights and subject their body to an experimental vaccine is unethical. Remove the requirement to relinquish your rights, and I might have a different opinion.

Let's go 1 step further: 80+% of COVID hospitalizations are associated with 4 comorbidities: obesity, hypertension, diabetes, and heart failure. If you force someone to take an experimental vaccine and absolve all their rights, what makes sense: require everyone including young people who have very little risk of severe infection or targeting those with predisposing health conditions? The latter obviously has HIPPA concerns, but if we're going all Nazi, we might as well go all in with targeted science.

Along those line... I have yet to meet one single person that is concerned about covid get less fat. not a single one.

Also believe in the vaccine and got it as soon as I could. That being said, it's tough to mandate something that has yet to be fully approved by the FDA. I still think it is to everyone's benefit that every person that can get the vaccine should get it. I do understand wanting to wait until it has been fully vetted and approved, though.

ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 10:21 am
It's time to discuss this as it is: we can't contain, control, or protect against this thing.

Like the common cold (virus) and the flu (virus). We can't contain, control, or protect against them either. Even though there are annual "flu shots" - they are typically only good for that specific variant of the virus - and only 45% effective anyway!

Just happens that the China virus is a bit stronger, and is thinning the herd more than the flu and "common" cold.

McPeachy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:04 pm Just happens that the China virus is a bit stronger, and is thinning the herd more than the flu and "common" cold.

I just wish it would thin out the herd running the govt. in D.C.

Wyokie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:22 pm

McPeachy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:04 pm Just happens that the China virus is a bit stronger, and is thinning the herd more than the flu and "common" cold.

I just wish it would thin out the herd running the govt. in D.C.

Yes! And all things bWHYu.

McPeachy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:31 pm

Wyokie wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 2:22 pm

McPeachy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:04 pm Just happens that the China virus is a bit stronger, and is thinning the herd more than the flu and "common" cold.

I just wish it would thin out the herd running the govt. in D.C.

Yes! And all things bWHYu.

100% agree on both!!!!!!

I’m very pro vaccine and I’m pro fluoride. I’m not taking this turd of a vaccine nor are my children. It’s 100% fact that flu is more deadly to the general child population than China virus. It’s absurd to be talking about vaccinating children unless they’re at risk. A lot of my hesitancy is for the reasons you all have already brought up. I have no issues with vaccines that have gone through traditional testing and approval trials. Both my daughters have gotten the newer hpv vaccine

laxwyo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:43 pm I’m very pro vaccine and I’m pro fluoride. I’m not taking this turd of a vaccine nor are my children. It’s 100% fact that flu is more deadly to the general child population than China virus. It’s absurd to be talking about vaccinating children unless they’re at risk. A lot of my hesitancy is for the reasons you all have already brought up. I have no issues with vaccines that have gone through traditional testing and approval trials. Both my daughters have gotten the newer hpv vaccine

Genuine question: If any of these COVID vaccines pass through full authorization will your stance on it change? I'm genuinely curious as to where the line is for people that have chosen not to be vaccinated. (As is absolutely their right)

laxwyo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:43 pm I’m very pro vaccine and I’m pro fluoride. I’m not taking this turd of a vaccine nor are my children. It’s 100% fact that flu is more deadly to the general child population than China virus. It’s absurd to be talking about vaccinating children unless they’re at risk. A lot of my hesitancy is for the reasons you all have already brought up. I have no issues with vaccines that have gone through traditional testing and approval trials. Both my daughters have gotten the newer hpv vaccine

This is 100% false. I'm curious what makes you think it actually is true... because it's not even close.

WestWYOPoke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:22 pm

laxwyo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:43 pm I’m very pro vaccine and I’m pro fluoride. I’m not taking this turd of a vaccine nor are my children. It’s 100% fact that flu is more deadly to the general child population than China virus. It’s absurd to be talking about vaccinating children unless they’re at risk. A lot of my hesitancy is for the reasons you all have already brought up. I have no issues with vaccines that have gone through traditional testing and approval trials. Both my daughters have gotten the newer hpv vaccine

This is 100% false. I'm curious what makes you think it actually is true... because it's not even close.

I'll bet he's not that far off. Since neither flu nor covid are serious threats to youth, it might be more accurate that they are similar. However, covid is not that dangerous to youth. Sure, you can drum up some isolated incidences but certainly not widespread among those age groups.
Even the father of mRNA vaccines has come out against vaccinating children because the vaccines are experimental and that population is such low risk.

dp

If you haven't heard of the delta plus variant, look it up Appears that one will make the vaccination debate pointless unless vaccines adapt. The other is the B.1.621 variant.

At the risk of being chicken little, the thing that scares me about this virus is an eventual mutation that has extreme lethality. Though probably not extremely lethal yet, the delta plus variant is a step in that direction. I hope China didn't release the Apocolypse. I can't imagine if it even gained MERS-CoV death rate or worse.

WestWYOPoke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:22 pm

laxwyo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:43 pm I’m very pro vaccine and I’m pro fluoride. I’m not taking this turd of a vaccine nor are my children. It’s 100% fact that flu is more deadly to the general child population than China virus. It’s absurd to be talking about vaccinating children unless they’re at risk. A lot of my hesitancy is for the reasons you all have already brought up. I have no issues with vaccines that have gone through traditional testing and approval trials. Both my daughters have gotten the newer hpv vaccine

This is 100% false. I'm curious what makes you think it actually is true... because it's not even close.

100% fact. 50% of Flu deaths for children occur in healthy individuals. I think it’s well documented that almost all covid deaths have several other favors. Do I have to preface every covid statement with “healthy individuals” to appease Covid queens like yourself?

Pfizer vaccine receives FDA approval. Does this mean they'll remove the requirement that you sign away all your rights prior to taking the vaccine? Until that little detail is addressed, I won't support mandatory vaccines in any capacity.

Remove mandates or remove the the requirement to sign away your rights to get the vaccine. If it's 100% safe, effective, and the drug company retains liability for adverse reactions or other problems stemming from production errors (including future lawsuits should it be discovered that the vaccines have a long-term health issue), then the mandates begin to make more sense.

laxwyo wrote: ↑Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:34 pm

WestWYOPoke wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:22 pm

laxwyo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 12:43 pm I’m very pro vaccine and I’m pro fluoride. I’m not taking this turd of a vaccine nor are my children. It’s 100% fact that flu is more deadly to the general child population than China virus. It’s absurd to be talking about vaccinating children unless they’re at risk. A lot of my hesitancy is for the reasons you all have already brought up. I have no issues with vaccines that have gone through traditional testing and approval trials. Both my daughters have gotten the newer hpv vaccine

This is 100% false. I'm curious what makes you think it actually is true... because it's not even close.

100% fact. 50% of Flu deaths for children occur in healthy individuals. I think it’s well documented that almost all covid deaths have several other favors. Do I have to preface every covid statement with “healthy individuals” to appease Covid queens like yourself?

When I first read your previous quote I missed the word 'child' so I thought you were referencing all Covid vs flu. However... even factoring in children: in the last year roughly 310 children have died from Covid. In the last 17 years, there hasn't been 1 year where there were more than 199 child deaths from the flu. So again, covid slightly more deadly.

I get the whole health/unhealthy debate but don't really prescribe to it. If someone is dead and wouldn't be dead if they hadn't contracted covid, then covid caused it.