Student loan forgiveness
Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:36 pm
Indefensible.
Can someone explain how Biden can do this unilaterally? I don’t understand
Can someone explain how Biden can do this unilaterally? I don’t understand
This is incorrect.
The Secretary of Education is part of the executive branch. We've been in a state of emergency since March 13, 2020. The provisions of law that are being waived are the repayment principles of student loans outlined in USC § 1087.laxwyo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:52 pmThis is incorrect.
They are trying to use "emergency powers" as both Pelosi and Biden have both said he did not have the power to do so unilaterally. "The Heroes Act, passed after the Sept. 11 attacks, gives the secretary of education the power to “waive or modify” any provision of the law “in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.” The executive executes the laws, they cannot just decide not to enforce certain parts of a law or magically create law through the bureaucracy. It's what most lawsuits are over, like when the ATF just decides that pistol braces are no longer legal with no legislative authority.
It doesn't surprise me that you have poop take on student loan forgiveness as all your takes are poop.
I suppose people believing this grants the authority would technically be disabled so they would then be eligible to have their loans forgiven. Makes sense, democrats are retarded.WYO1016 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:52 amThe Secretary of Education is part of the executive branch. We've been in a state of emergency since March 13, 2020. The provisions of law that are being waived are the repayment principles of student loans outlined in USC § 1087.laxwyo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:52 pmThis is incorrect.
They are trying to use "emergency powers" as both Pelosi and Biden have both said he did not have the power to do so unilaterally. "The Heroes Act, passed after the Sept. 11 attacks, gives the secretary of education the power to “waive or modify” any provision of the law “in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.” The executive executes the laws, they cannot just decide not to enforce certain parts of a law or magically create law through the bureaucracy. It's what most lawsuits are over, like when the ATF just decides that pistol braces are no longer legal with no legislative authority.
It doesn't surprise me that you have poop take on student loan forgiveness as all your takes are poop.
It doesn't surprise me that you don't know how the government works, as it hasn't yet been explained in crayon.
Did I hurt your little snowflake feelings by proving you wrong? It's ok little buddy. That's why the grownups run things while you whine about it on the internet.
You think you're right about the authority? LOL There's only a handful of liberal law scholars that think this is true. Even Nancy Pelosi said he never had the authority. Will it stop him from trying? No, but since the extreme shift of demorats to the authoritarian side of governance, they'll sure try any and everything. As when the EPA, ATF and others try to create law through the bureaucracy, they'll get sued and lose. It's a little scary how bad you all want a dictator that could do anything they want.
I'm not saying I'm right. I'm conveying that the Department of Justice said there isn't an issue, and they're the authority on this. In fact, they specifically addressed Whitman v. American Trucking Ass'ns:laxwyo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:24 pm You think you're right about the authority? LOL There's only a handful of liberal law scholars that think this is true. Even Nancy Pelosi said he never had the authority. Will it stop him from trying? No, but since the extreme shift of demorats to the authoritarian side of governance, they'll sure try any and everything. As when the EPA, ATF and others try to create law through the bureaucracy, they'll get sued and lose. It's a little scary how bad you all want a dictator that could do anything they want.
'Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. As the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc., (531 USC 457, 2001), Congress does not “hide elephants in mouseholes.”
Stop parroting what you hear on OAN, Fox News, or whatever other crackpot "media" sources you follow and read a legal opinion. If you disagree with said opinion I would encourage you to go to law school so you can change it.When Justice Scalia used the mousehole metaphor for the first time in the U.S. Reports, he used it to express the idea that Congress “does not alter the fundamental details of a regulatory scheme in vague terms or ancillary provisions.” Whitman v. Am. Trucking Ass’ns, 531 U.S. 457, 468 (2001). There is no mousehole here because there is nothing “vague” or “ancillary” about the HEROES Act. The HEROES Act expressly gives the Secretary sweeping authority to “waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV,”
We all know that the so called Justice Department has devolved into the Democrat Stasi. They will say and do whatever Biden wants them to say or do.WYO1016 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:39 amI'm not saying I'm right. I'm conveying that the Department of Justice said there isn't an issue, and they're the authority on this. In fact, they specifically addressed Whitman v. American Trucking A$$'ns:laxwyo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:24 pm You think you're right about the authority? LOL There's only a handful of liberal law scholars that think this is true. Even Nancy Pelosi said he never had the authority. Will it stop him from trying? No, but since the extreme shift of demorats to the authoritarian side of governance, they'll sure try any and everything. As when the EPA, ATF and others try to create law through the bureaucracy, they'll get sued and lose. It's a little scary how bad you all want a dictator that could do anything they want.
'Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. As the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc., (531 USC 457, 2001), Congress does not “hide elephants in mouseholes.”Stop parroting what you hear on OAN, Fox News, or whatever other crackpot "media" sources you follow and read a legal opinion. If you disagree with said opinion I would encourage you to go to law school so you can change it.When Justice Scalia used the mousehole metaphor for the first time in the U.S. Reports, he used it to express the idea that Congress “does not alter the fundamental details of a regulatory scheme in vague terms or ancillary provisions.” Whitman v. Am. Trucking A$$’ns, 531 U.S. 457, 468 (2001). There is no mousehole here because there is nothing “vague” or “ancillary” about the HEROES Act. The HEROES Act expressly gives the Secretary sweeping authority to “waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV,”
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/f ... es-act.pdf
For real.ZapPoke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:16 pmWe all know that the so called Justice Department has devolved into the Democrat Stasi. They will say and do whatever Biden wants them to say or do.WYO1016 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:39 amI'm not saying I'm right. I'm conveying that the Department of Justice said there isn't an issue, and they're the authority on this. In fact, they specifically addressed Whitman v. American Trucking A$$'ns:laxwyo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:24 pm You think you're right about the authority? LOL There's only a handful of liberal law scholars that think this is true. Even Nancy Pelosi said he never had the authority. Will it stop him from trying? No, but since the extreme shift of demorats to the authoritarian side of governance, they'll sure try any and everything. As when the EPA, ATF and others try to create law through the bureaucracy, they'll get sued and lose. It's a little scary how bad you all want a dictator that could do anything they want.
'Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. As the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc., (531 USC 457, 2001), Congress does not “hide elephants in mouseholes.”Stop parroting what you hear on OAN, Fox News, or whatever other crackpot "media" sources you follow and read a legal opinion. If you disagree with said opinion I would encourage you to go to law school so you can change it.When Justice Scalia used the mousehole metaphor for the first time in the U.S. Reports, he used it to express the idea that Congress “does not alter the fundamental details of a regulatory scheme in vague terms or ancillary provisions.” Whitman v. Am. Trucking A$$’ns, 531 U.S. 457, 468 (2001). There is no mousehole here because there is nothing “vague” or “ancillary” about the HEROES Act. The HEROES Act expressly gives the Secretary sweeping authority to “waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV,”
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/f ... es-act.pdf
How did I know this was going to come up? "Back the Blue! (Unless they do things we don't like, then defund the FBI!)"
When the mayor of Casper politicizes the police to go after his opponents I will not “back the blue”. You are making a silly argument.
State of emergency.WYO1016 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:52 amThe Secretary of Education is part of the executive branch. We've been in a state of emergency since March 13, 2020. The provisions of law that are being waived are the repayment principles of student loans outlined in USC § 1087.laxwyo wrote: ↑Fri Aug 26, 2022 11:52 pmThis is incorrect.
They are trying to use "emergency powers" as both Pelosi and Biden have both said he did not have the power to do so unilaterally. "The Heroes Act, passed after the Sept. 11 attacks, gives the secretary of education the power to “waive or modify” any provision of the law “in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency.” The executive executes the laws, they cannot just decide not to enforce certain parts of a law or magically create law through the bureaucracy. It's what most lawsuits are over, like when the ATF just decides that pistol braces are no longer legal with no legislative authority.
It doesn't surprise me that you have Sh#t take on student loan forgiveness as all your takes are Sh#t.
It doesn't surprise me that you don't know how the government works, as it hasn't yet been explained in crayon.
So, to put simply, because WY1016 posted the direct link to the law that was being questioned, you "refute" it by throwing out baseless accusations/conspiracy theories that you heard on facebook, than OAN, then whatever further right wing site you go to when those became "too left" (had to admit right wing conspiracies were wrong) for you.ZapPoke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:16 pmWe all know that the so called Justice Department has devolved into the Democrat Stasi. They will say and do whatever Biden wants them to say or do.WYO1016 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:39 amI'm not saying I'm right. I'm conveying that the Department of Justice said there isn't an issue, and they're the authority on this. In fact, they specifically addressed Whitman v. American Trucking A$$'ns:laxwyo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:24 pm You think you're right about the authority? LOL There's only a handful of liberal law scholars that think this is true. Even Nancy Pelosi said he never had the authority. Will it stop him from trying? No, but since the extreme shift of demorats to the authoritarian side of governance, they'll sure try any and everything. As when the EPA, ATF and others try to create law through the bureaucracy, they'll get sued and lose. It's a little scary how bad you all want a dictator that could do anything they want.
'Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. As the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc., (531 USC 457, 2001), Congress does not “hide elephants in mouseholes.”Stop parroting what you hear on OAN, Fox News, or whatever other crackpot "media" sources you follow and read a legal opinion. If you disagree with said opinion I would encourage you to go to law school so you can change it.When Justice Scalia used the mousehole metaphor for the first time in the U.S. Reports, he used it to express the idea that Congress “does not alter the fundamental details of a regulatory scheme in vague terms or ancillary provisions.” Whitman v. Am. Trucking A$$’ns, 531 U.S. 457, 468 (2001). There is no mousehole here because there is nothing “vague” or “ancillary” about the HEROES Act. The HEROES Act expressly gives the Secretary sweeping authority to “waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV,”
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/f ... es-act.pdf
Try clicking on the link. It says Page Not Found. Furthermore, the link, when it worked, showed the DOJ opinion, hence my comment that they will say whatever Obiden wants them to say. It was their opinion.fromolwyoming wrote: ↑Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:54 pmSo, to put simply, because WY1016 posted the direct link to the law that was being questioned, you "refute" it by throwing out baseless accusations/conspiracy theories that you heard on facebook, than OAN, then whatever further right wing site you go to when those became "too left" (had to admit right wing conspiracies were wrong) for you.ZapPoke wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 1:16 pmWe all know that the so called Justice Department has devolved into the Democrat Stasi. They will say and do whatever Biden wants them to say or do.WYO1016 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 9:39 amI'm not saying I'm right. I'm conveying that the Department of Justice said there isn't an issue, and they're the authority on this. In fact, they specifically addressed Whitman v. American Trucking A$$'ns:laxwyo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 10:24 pm You think you're right about the authority? LOL There's only a handful of liberal law scholars that think this is true. Even Nancy Pelosi said he never had the authority. Will it stop him from trying? No, but since the extreme shift of demorats to the authoritarian side of governance, they'll sure try any and everything. As when the EPA, ATF and others try to create law through the bureaucracy, they'll get sued and lose. It's a little scary how bad you all want a dictator that could do anything they want.
'Without authorization by Congress of a specific loan forgiveness program, the President does not have the authority to forgive student loan debt. As the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Whitman v. American Trucking Assns., Inc., (531 USC 457, 2001), Congress does not “hide elephants in mouseholes.”Stop parroting what you hear on OAN, Fox News, or whatever other crackpot "media" sources you follow and read a legal opinion. If you disagree with said opinion I would encourage you to go to law school so you can change it.When Justice Scalia used the mousehole metaphor for the first time in the U.S. Reports, he used it to express the idea that Congress “does not alter the fundamental details of a regulatory scheme in vague terms or ancillary provisions.” Whitman v. Am. Trucking A$$’ns, 531 U.S. 457, 468 (2001). There is no mousehole here because there is nothing “vague” or “ancillary” about the HEROES Act. The HEROES Act expressly gives the Secretary sweeping authority to “waive or modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV,”
https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/f ... es-act.pdf
Doesn't make it right. The action itself is indefensible regardless of the legal loopholes used to execute the action. Very similar to using budget reconciliation to pass legislation which is equally indefensible. Go nuclear and own it or don't.
What isn't right about it? It's not right that tuition has skyrocketed so much that people are in debt for their entire careers.ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:31 amDoesn't make it right. The action itself is indefensible regardless of the legal loopholes used to execute the action. Very similar to using budget reconciliation to pass legislation which is equally indefensible. Go nuclear and own it or don't.
Can't say anything about lawyers and engineers but doctors will qualify if they apply for it early on. Medical/surgical residents make between 55-65k a year for 3-7 years depending on what area of the country they're training in. Med school debt averages over 200k, so giving them 10k is a fart in the wind and really just a waste of money.
Signed a loan and knew the conditions. Like everyone else in the adult world, pay it back or don't take the loan. If it is such a problem, why isn't the problem fixed? Going to keep giving people free passes who take college loans out?WYO1016 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:09 amWhat isn't right about it? It's not right that tuition has skyrocketed so much that people are in debt for their entire careers.ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:31 amDoesn't make it right. The action itself is indefensible regardless of the legal loopholes used to execute the action. Very similar to using budget reconciliation to pass legislation which is equally indefensible. Go nuclear and own it or don't.
The cap on this is $10k for anyone that earns less than $125k/year, so the doctors/lawyers/engineers camp mostly won't see it. It's $20k for people that had Pell grants, which you have to be flat broke to be able to get. That $125k/year cap still stands for that too, by the way.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the outrage of forgiving student loans when the feds gave $17.4 billion to GM and Chrysler in 2008. They also gave $651 billion in tax breaks to large corporations in 2020. When the feds pass out money to corporations no one seems to care. When they are actually helping individuals there is outrage all over the place. Seems pretty backwards to me.
And both sides do it, so who the f-word cares.ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:48 pmSigned a loan and knew the conditions. Like everyone else in the adult world, pay it back or don't take the loan. If it is such a problem, why isn't the problem fixed? Going to keep giving people free passes who take college loans out?WYO1016 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:09 amWhat isn't right about it? It's not right that tuition has skyrocketed so much that people are in debt for their entire careers.ragtimejoe1 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:31 amDoesn't make it right. The action itself is indefensible regardless of the legal loopholes used to execute the action. Very similar to using budget reconciliation to pass legislation which is equally indefensible. Go nuclear and own it or don't.
The cap on this is $10k for anyone that earns less than $125k/year, so the doctors/lawyers/engineers camp mostly won't see it. It's $20k for people that had Pell grants, which you have to be flat broke to be able to get. That $125k/year cap still stands for that too, by the way.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the outrage of forgiving student loans when the feds gave $17.4 billion to GM and Chrysler in 2008. They also gave $651 billion in tax breaks to large corporations in 2020. When the feds pass out money to corporations no one seems to care. When they are actually helping individuals there is outrage all over the place. Seems pretty backwards to me.
Trade school? Business loans? Forgiving loans is buying votes. It isn't forgiving anything. It's transferring debt from those who chose to take it to those who have no choice. There simply is no rational way to argue how it's right or fair.