Season Ticket Holders...Your Thoughts??!!

[McPeachy]

From UW / CJC:

"We are thankful for the longtime support of our loyal Cowboy Football season ticket holders and the ongoing support you have provided to Wyoming Athletics. After conducting an audit of grandfathered season ticket accounts in War Memorial Stadium, we would like to take this time to make all grandfathered ticket holders aware of the University of Wyoming policies and procedures regarding seating.

Grandfathered season tickets (requiring original donation prices at time of purchase or no donation at all) are only available to the original account holder prior to 2008. If your account qualifies for grandfathered status and follows the outlined policies no additional action needs to be taken at this time.

Grandfathered status will be forfeited if one of the following occurs:

Transfer of tickets/seat locations to another account
Account name change or contact information change from the original account holder
Name, phone number, and address must match the original account holder’s information
Please be advised that mobile tickets & print at home delivery will only be made to the information provided on the account; will call tickets will only be provided with a valid
photo ID at time of redemption
Change of seat location in account
Payment received from any other party than the original account holder
Any payments made by and/or tickets used by solely other individuals to circumvent our policies will result in voided tickets and a refunded transaction
Sale of grandfathered tickets for profit
Payment received after renewal deadline (this action will result in seats being dropped and grandfathered status no longer available)

If you would like to transfer season tickets to another account, we will offer grandfathered pricing for one year (2023 season) in a new account. We can also assist you in relocation of your Wyoming Football seats to any other section of your choice as donation requirements vary and are not required in certain sections. Please see the map below for pricing information.

We will also be in communication with all season ticket holders on the west side of War Memorial Stadium later this fall. Exciting renovations will greatly enhance that area and as final plans become available, you will be notified of the impacts and details.

For assistance with your account or any questions please contact the Wyoming Athletic Ticket Office at 307-766-7220 or the Cowboy Joe Club at 307-766-6242

Thank you again for your support of Wyoming Athletics and Cowboy Football!"

[OrediggerPoke]

Personally, I think it is fair. Just because someone has had tickets for 30 years, they should not be entitled to perpetually pay less (i.e. the annual CJC 'donation'), and also be able to assign that right to pay less, than us season ticket holders who have had tickets for the last 10 or so years and who have to pay the annual CJC amount. When I calculate my season ticket cost, I add the 'ticket' plus the 'donation' requirement because that is the true cost of the ticket.

[bladerunnr]

Honestly, I don't think an exception should be made for the 2008 ticket holders. They should have to ante up like everyone else.

[McPeachy]

My further thoughts on this...is this going to end up like the AA reseating model Burman put in place? I.E. a ton of empty seats, in the most premium areas? At some point, if you want 4 tickets close to the 50, you are going to pay $500 per seat to CJC, and another $290 per ticket, as well as another $50 for a seatback chair. So, to attend 6 Wyoming home games, with a group of four, decent seats, it is going to (at minimum) cost you $3360.00. Add in concessions, travel, etc., and that looks to be an easy 5k for a season.

Personally, I don't have an issue with that number, but I am sure many will.

[OrediggerPoke]

My further thoughts on this...is this going to end up like the AA reseating model Burman put in place? I.E. a ton of empty seats, in the most premium areas? At some point, if you want 4 tickets close to the 50, you are going to pay $500 per seat to CJC, and another $290 per ticket, as well as another $50 for a seatback chair. So, to attend 6 Wyoming home games, with a group of four, decent seats, it is going to (at minimum) cost you $3360.00. Add in concessions, travel, etc., and that looks to be an easy 5k for a season.

Personally, I don't have an issue with that number, but I am sure many will.

Many of us are paying numbers already in that ballpark for non-premium seats. At least now it will be more of a fair playing field. Keep in mind - folks who got their seats prior to 2008 are still grandfathered in...but no longer can they transfer that status to their heirs or friends.

[OrediggerPoke]

Honestly, I don't think an exception should be made for the 2008 ticket holders. They should have to ante up like everyone else.

I agree but I believe that was a term of the season ticket purchase back then...so the University is probably stuck with that agreement. So folks who bought before 2008 were wise/lucky.

[flyfishwyo]

Honestly, I don't think an exception should be made for the 2008 ticket holders. They should have to ante up like everyone else.

I agree but I believe that was a term of the season ticket purchase back then...so the University is probably stuck with that agreement. So folks who bought before 2008 were wise/lucky.

"Loyal" might also be a good term. I've had 6 season tickets in the same seats for 20 years. When I got them there wasn't a mandatory CJC donation. The amount I give doesn't cover all 6 seats. I kept all of them over the years so I could sit with my friends and family, even when we were terrible. It was a rare occasion when they weren't all used. I think I've missed 4 total home games in that time.

I figured this would come to an end soon. I'm not upset that it's happening and I understand why, but I will be cutting back to 2 or 3 from now on. It was worth the extra few hundred bucks to be able to bring a couple of people to the game and sit next to my friends. It isn't worth $1500 to me. I'm not complaining, that's just how I look at it from a personal finance perspective.

The one thing that bothers me about the whole thing is how CJC communicates with the fan base. It always seems like they demand more and give less. It's certainly not a customer service oriented organization, and they have a vert short memory. The shiny new donor gets lots of attention while the guy who's been consistently coming for 20 years gets told he needs to up his donation or move to another parking lot. I'd be open to giving more to CJC if they weren't so damned unfriendly.

[LanderPoke]

I agree but I believe that was a term of the season ticket purchase back then...so the University is probably stuck with that agreement. So folks who bought before 2008 were wise/lucky.

"Loyal" might also be a good term. I've had 6 season tickets in the same seats for 20 years. When I got them there wasn't a mandatory CJC donation. The amount I give doesn't cover all 6 seats. I kept all of them over the years so I could sit with my friends and family, even when we were terrible. It was a rare occasion when they weren't all used. I think I've missed 4 total home games in that time.

I figured this would come to an end soon. I'm not upset that it's happening and I understand why, but I will be cutting back to 2 or 3 from now on. It was worth the extra few hundred bucks to be able to bring a couple of people to the game and sit next to my friends. It isn't worth $1500 to me. I'm not complaining, that's just how I look at it from a personal finance perspective.

The one thing that bothers me about the whole thing is how CJC communicates with the fan base. It always seems like they demand more and give less. It's certainly not a customer service oriented organization, and they have a vert short memory. The shiny new donor gets lots of attention while the guy who's been consistently coming for 20 years gets told he needs to up his donation or move to another parking lot. I'd be open to giving more to CJC if they weren't so damned unfriendly.

^^^ This is what I worry about. We'll probably see a bunch of empty seats now.

[flyfishwyo]

"Loyal" might also be a good term. I've had 6 season tickets in the same seats for 20 years. When I got them there wasn't a mandatory CJC donation. The amount I give doesn't cover all 6 seats. I kept all of them over the years so I could sit with my friends and family, even when we were terrible. It was a rare occasion when they weren't all used. I think I've missed 4 total home games in that time.

I figured this would come to an end soon. I'm not upset that it's happening and I understand why, but I will be cutting back to 2 or 3 from now on. It was worth the extra few hundred bucks to be able to bring a couple of people to the game and sit next to my friends. It isn't worth $1500 to me. I'm not complaining, that's just how I look at it from a personal finance perspective.

The one thing that bothers me about the whole thing is how CJC communicates with the fan base. It always seems like they demand more and give less. It's certainly not a customer service oriented organization, and they have a vert short memory. The shiny new donor gets lots of attention while the guy who's been consistently coming for 20 years gets told he needs to up his donation or move to another parking lot. I'd be open to giving more to CJC if they weren't so damned unfriendly.

^^^ This is what I worry about. We'll probably see a bunch of empty seats now.

In a ten or so seat radius in my section about 75% of the people were long-time season ticket holders. Those seats were full most of the time, even in the bad years. When the seat owners weren't there they gave tickets away so they were usually occupied. The other 25% were only full for high-demand games or when the team was in contention for a title. Single game purchases don't have to pay a CJC fee. So unless they sell those seats to new season ticket holders they're going to lose money in average or down years. They may make a little more in years when expectations are high. There's going to be 3 or 4 more seats added to that group this year.

[LawPoke]

If you are selling out every game and have a waiting list, then you do this. Wyoming doesn't. If CJC was THE club to belong to and doing amazing things, then you do this. It isn't. It is tired. It lacks vision. It is a free sticker and another magnet to stack next to the ones I have received for the past umpteen years. It is a warm fuzzy knowing that I contribute a little to a kid's scholarship. IMHO, this is an unforced error at a time when fan resentment is growing, folks are struggling to buy eggs and a lot of fans find attending football games a disposable expense. How about this: make CJC something worth belonging to again. Do this when enthusiasm for the Pokes is sky high. This said, I have only one question: why do this now when things are rough economically and enthusiasm is 'meh'? Seems like the exact WRONG time for this, but what do I know?

[OrediggerPoke]

^^^ This is what I worry about. We'll probably see a bunch of empty seats now.

In a ten or so seat radius in my section about 75% of the people were long-time season ticket holders. Those seats were full most of the time, even in the bad years. When the seat owners weren't there they gave tickets away so they were usually occupied. The other 25% were only full for high-demand games or when the team was in contention for a title. Single game purchases don't have to pay a CJC fee. So unless they sell those seats to new season ticket holders they're going to lose money in average or down years. They may make a little more in years when expectations are high. There's going to be 3 or 4 more seats added to that group this year.

Am I missing something? This change will not increase the price/donation for you at all (assuming you are grandfathered). You just can’t pass on that grandfathered benefit if you were to give up your tickets to someone else.

[OrediggerPoke]

If you are selling out every game and have a waiting list, then you do this. Wyoming doesn't. If CJC was THE club to belong to and doing amazing things, then you do this. It isn't. It is tired. It lacks vision. It is a free sticker and another magnet to stack next to the ones I have received for the past umpteen years. It is a warm fuzzy knowing that I contribute a little to a kid's scholarship. IMHO, this is an unforced error at a time when fan resentment is growing, folks are struggling to buy eggs and a lot of fans find attending football games a disposable expense. How about this: make CJC something worth belonging to again. Do this when enthusiasm for the Pokes is sky high. This said, I have only one question: why do this now when things are rough economically and enthusiasm is 'meh'? Seems like the exact WRONG time for this, but what do I know?

I don’t understand the egg buying and tough times argument. This will not result in an increase in costs to grandfathered ticket holders so long as they don’t transfer their tickets, etc.

[LawPoke]

If you are selling out every game and have a waiting list, then you do this. Wyoming doesn't. If CJC was THE club to belong to and doing amazing things, then you do this. It isn't. It is tired. It lacks vision. It is a free sticker and another magnet to stack next to the ones I have received for the past umpteen years. It is a warm fuzzy knowing that I contribute a little to a kid's scholarship. IMHO, this is an unforced error at a time when fan resentment is growing, folks are struggling to buy eggs and a lot of fans find attending football games a disposable expense. How about this: make CJC something worth belonging to again. Do this when enthusiasm for the Pokes is sky high. This said, I have only one question: why do this now when things are rough economically and enthusiasm is 'meh'? Seems like the exact WRONG time for this, but what do I know?

I don’t understand the egg buying and tough times argument. This will not result in an increase in costs to grandfathered ticket holders so long as they don’t transfer their tickets, etc.

The listed items that break your grandfathering are fairly benign (some anyway). It looks like they are actively seeking out opportunities to get rid of long term grandfathered ticket holders so they can hit them up for CJC donations, which cost money folks don’t have. Why upset this Applecart now? I guarantee they will irritate a whole bunch of folks and lose fans (needlessly) over this ill timed BS. Yet another unforced error. Why now?

[McPeachy]

I don’t understand the egg buying and tough times argument. This will not result in an increase in costs to grandfathered ticket holders so long as they don’t transfer their tickets, etc.

The listed items that break your grandfathering are fairly benign (some anyway). It looks like they are actively seeking out opportunities to get rid of long term grandfathered ticket holders so they can hit them up for CJC donations, which cost money folks don’t have. Why upset this Applecart now? I guarantee they will irritate a whole bunch of folks and lose fans (needlessly) over this ill timed BS. Yet another unforced error. Why now?

Correct. See Below...

Grandfathered status will be forfeited if one of the following occurs:

Transfer of tickets/seat locations to another account (Fair)
Account name change or contact information change from the original account holder (Fair, unless direct family member maybe, like a son or daughter)?
Name, phone number, and address must match the original account holder’s information (poop)
Change of seat location in account (Mixed on this one)
Payment received from any other party than the original account holder (Mixed on this as well)
Any payments made by and/or tickets used by solely other individuals to circumvent our policies will result in voided tickets and a refunded transaction (Threatening)
Sale of grandfathered tickets for profit (Welcome to China)
Payment received after renewal deadline this action will result in seats being dropped and grandfathered status no longer available. (Fair, but there will be exceptions)

[LawPoke]

The listed items that break your grandfathering are fairly benign (some anyway). It looks like they are actively seeking out opportunities to get rid of long term grandfathered ticket holders so they can hit them up for CJC donations, which cost money folks don’t have. Why upset this Applecart now? I guarantee they will irritate a whole bunch of folks and lose fans (needlessly) over this ill timed BS. Yet another unforced error. Why now?

Correct. See Below...

Grandfathered status will be forfeited if one of the following occurs:

Transfer of tickets/seat locations to another account (Fair)
Account name change or contact information change from the original account holder (Fair, unless direct family member maybe, like a son or daughter)?
Name, phone number, and address must match the original account holder’s information (poop)
Change of seat location in account (Mixed on this one)
Payment received from any other party than the original account holder (Mixed on this as well)
Any payments made by and/or tickets used by solely other individuals to circumvent our policies will result in voided tickets and a refunded transaction (Threatening)
Sale of grandfathered tickets for profit (Welcome to China)
Payment received after renewal deadline this action will result in seats being dropped and grandfathered status no longer available. (Fair, but there will be exceptions)

There are good reasons for SOME of the things on that list. The other, though, make it seem dumb. Maybe there are good reasons for each item, but the overall message that I received was: tick tock folks, we can't wait to end this grandfathering BS so we can force CJC membership or move our "good" donors into your spots. Or worse, we are building some fantsy seats on the West side that you will never be able to afford to sit in and we are dying to move you to section AA so we can take your seats and give them to a corporate donor.

I think you do this:

1) when you are good and selling that place out every Saturday (or Thursday or Friday or whatever other stupid day we have to play) or coming close
2) when belonging to CJC means more than a sticker, a magnet and a warm fuzzy - where fans truly are excited by being a member
3) when the cost of eggs isn't $200 and people aren't looking for reasons to cut things like football tickets out of their budget.

Whether rational or not, people are concerned and the slightest trigger will lead to an otherwise illogical decision. We aren't good enough and the CJC isn't cool enough right now. The Department is itching for a needless fight and will lose fans over it.

[flyfishwyo]

In a ten or so seat radius in my section about 75% of the people were long-time season ticket holders. Those seats were full most of the time, even in the bad years. When the seat owners weren't there they gave tickets away so they were usually occupied. The other 25% were only full for high-demand games or when the team was in contention for a title. Single game purchases don't have to pay a CJC fee. So unless they sell those seats to new season ticket holders they're going to lose money in average or down years. They may make a little more in years when expectations are high. There's going to be 3 or 4 more seats added to that group this year.

Am I missing something? This change will not increase the price/donation for you at all (assuming you are grandfathered). You just can’t pass on that grandfathered benefit if you were to give up your tickets to someone else.

They are setting the stage to get rid of all the grandfathered seats when they renovate the West side in a year or two. Again, I'm not really upset or surprised. It just feels like they don't value long-time contributors. The message is always heavy-handed and condescending. If I got a letter like this from a business, I wouldn't be a customer anymore. Unfortunately, I'm a college football degenerate and I'm not quitting. CJC knows it.

[OrediggerPoke]

Am I missing something? This change will not increase the price/donation for you at all (assuming you are grandfathered). You just can’t pass on that grandfathered benefit if you were to give up your tickets to someone else.

They are setting the stage to get rid of all the grandfathered seats when they renovate the West side in a year or two. Again, I'm not really upset or surprised. It just feels like they don't value long-time contributors. The message is always heavy-handed and condescending. If I got a letter like this from a business, I wouldn't be a customer anymore. Unfortunately, I'm a college football degenerate and I'm not quitting. CJC knows it.

I didn't get that impression from just my reading. But basketball was certainly handled that way. However, I'd be curious what the original terms were when those seasons tickets were purchased and if they identified what would/should happen in the event of renovation resulting in different seating patterns/numbers.

Perhaps some of this could be trying to eliminate some grandfathered seats because concerns that they won't have enough seats in certain areas after the renovation to accommodate all of the grandfathered tickets?

PS - the East side/student section is better anyways.

[McPeachy]

Correct. See Below...

Grandfathered status will be forfeited if one of the following occurs:

Transfer of tickets/seat locations to another account (Fair)
Account name change or contact information change from the original account holder (Fair, unless direct family member maybe, like a son or daughter)?
Name, phone number, and address must match the original account holder’s information (poop)
Change of seat location in account (Mixed on this one)
Payment received from any other party than the original account holder (Mixed on this as well)
Any payments made by and/or tickets used by solely other individuals to circumvent our policies will result in voided tickets and a refunded transaction (Threatening)
Sale of grandfathered tickets for profit (Welcome to China)
Payment received after renewal deadline this action will result in seats being dropped and grandfathered status no longer available. (Fair, but there will be exceptions)

There are good reasons for SOME of the things on that list. The other, though, make it seem dumb. Maybe there are good reasons for each item, but the overall message that I received was: tick tock folks, we can't wait to end this grandfathering BS so we can force CJC membership or move our "good" donors into your spots. Or worse, we are building some fantsy seats on the West side that you will never be able to afford to sit in and we are dying to move you to section AA so we can take your seats and give them to a corporate donor.

I think you do this:

1) when you are good and selling that place out every Saturday (or Thursday or Friday or whatever other stupid day we have to play) or coming close
2) when belonging to CJC means more than a sticker, a magnet and a warm fuzzy - where fans truly are excited by being a member
3) when the cost of eggs isn't $200 and people aren't looking for reasons to cut things like football tickets out of their budget.

Whether rational or not, people are concerned and the slightest trigger will lead to an otherwise illogical decision. We aren't good enough and the CJC isn't cool enough right now. The Department is itching for a needless fight and will lose fans over it.

Very true statement. CJC needs a fire lit under it, with new leadership. The same old / same old is just that. CJC needs a marketing pro, not a banker FFS.

[doreno5]

As a season ticket holder for more than 30 years I am among those who were grandfathered in. I am concerned with the tone and lack of customer appreciation shown by the CJC. I am not in the upper tiers of donators but I have contributed steadily over the years. It seems like the only time I hear from the CJC is when they are wanting to increase the amount I am asked to donate or face some sort of reduction in benefits. They first took away my parking near the stadium, then it was access to some events and now what I see is they will be angling to take away my seats. Count me among those who feel dissatisfied with the current direction of the CJC.

[LawPoke]

As a season ticket holder for more than 30 years I am among those who were grandfathered in. I am concerned with the tone and lack of customer appreciation shown by the CJC. I am not in the upper tiers of donators but I have contributed steadily over the years. It seems like the only time I hear from the CJC is when they are wanting to increase the amount I am asked to donate or face some sort of reduction in benefits. They first took away my parking near the stadium, then it was access to some events and now what I see is they will be angling to take away my seats. Count me among those who feel dissatisfied with the current direction of the CJC.

I generally get that they want to get rid of the grandfathered tickets...but I think they should let it happen by attrition over time. Forcing it through technicalities has "gotcha" and "greedy" vibes.

How many grandfathered folks are there I wonder? Maybe that would help us understand the why a bit more?

As for CJC, it is tired and lacks vision. Other than some token gift giving and parking manipulation, it does nothing innovative. It is largely the same today as it was 52 years ago. Looking through the website, I see the same events, the same appeals, the same charts, the same gist that I always have. Meanwhile, D1 athletics has seen a sea-change of activity in the last year...let alone last 52.