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307bball
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:11 am
307bball wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:46 am

This is the part that all of the people who harbor resentment towards players transferring are missing. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY.

This is how every player in the modern era has felt...the transfer rules just kept it from manifesting. If you think Larry Nance, Josh Adams, Josh Allen, Brandon Ewing, etc... would have stayed if they had mid 6 figures and no penalty to transfer....you are just naive. Players who are playing men's college basketball and football are professionals, full stop. These guys are not student athletes. They are not loyal to their school. On the hardwood and on the gridiron they are often consummate team players that want to win but once the game ends, every one of these guys are making business decisions and school loyalty doesn't factor in. This is not a moral issue. The hate towards the players is just asinine.
Despite what you think, the student athlete still exists. There are guys that play for the school and the love of the sport who do realize that they will never make much (if any) money from the sport they play.

While the dynamic has now changed at the D1 level; go watch a Colorado Mines game (they are elite in D2 in both football and basketball). Then go talk to those players and ask them why they play and how much time they spend on school work compared to athletics.

But yes - guys like Josh Allen would definitely have left in today’s environment. If someone is going to pay that kind of money, every person in their right mind would take the money and secure their financial future.
I agree that they love their sport, and at a level that does not have mass market appeal (Like D2 as you mention) there are even less players that have the ability to ever make a living long term at playing their sport. That category of player may indeed "love their school" (though I am skeptical of that). The MW is at the lower end of that continuum of FBS, but players that play FBS football spend waaaayyy more time worrying and planning for their athletic future than their academic future. There are obviously exceptions...always a few academic all-Americans out there...but to the extent that they will ever make the NBA or NFL...it would be the height of lunacy to put focus on school at the expense of whatever chance you have to get a professional contract. The fact that there are lower levels of college athletics that may not be experiencing this phenomenon shouldn't convince anybody that there is some latent "school spirit" that is lacking from the better players. Look at the comments made by Brandon Ewing...He's been a fan and promoter of UW...but he's also honest and when he put's himself back in that place when he was in the trenches....he realizes.."yeah, I probably make different decisions if other factors are going on like they are today".

This conversation is inherently not about D2 athletes or academic all-Americans though...it is about players that have at least a glimmer of hope to be professional athletes. Those guys are loyal to their future even if they harbor no resentment at all towards the school that recruited them (and I bet most don't). And even if the glimmer of hope they have is very dim...they all have unbelievable confidence in themselves or they wouldn't have put in the work to even get to the college level. Those are the players that are transferring, those are the players that are getting the personal hate....it's dumb.

**edit**

I think my opinion on this topic is informed because I'm old enough that I was brought up with all the loyalty and team first stuff that a lot of posters on here are saying is gone .... but have also had personal connection to the world of college athletics that have made the grind and the "business" of it very obvious to me....for everybody, coaches, players, administration...whatever. The only people that seem to be unable or unwilling to acknowledge that is the fans (particularly the older generations). And look...it's fine to be old...I'm old. But things change.
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307bball wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:46 am
flyfishwyo wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2023 3:09 pm .... And it supports a system where athletes play for the name on the back of the jersey, not the front.
This is the part that all of the people who harbor resentment towards players transferring are missing. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY.

This is how every player in the modern era has felt...the transfer rules just kept it from manifesting. If you think Larry Nance, Josh Adams, Josh Allen, Brandon Ewing, etc... would have stayed if they had mid 6 figures and no penalty to transfer....you are just naive. Players who are playing men's college basketball and football are professionals, full stop. These guys are not student athletes. They are not loyal to their school. On the hardwood and on the gridiron they are often consummate team players that want to win but once the game ends, every one of these guys are making business decisions and school loyalty doesn't factor in. This is not a moral issue. The hate towards the players is just asinine.
Whoa there, buddy. I didn't say I'm pissed or resentful towards the guys who left. Ike made a move that will definitely benefit him, and I'm going to watch a few of his games this year because Gonzaga is on TV at least once a week. Which is another reason it's a good move for him. Oden, DuSell, and others played their hearts out while they were here. They have my respect. I don't wish them bad luck in the future, although I do question some of the choices they made.

The whole transfer portal/NIL thing isn't very different than the job market. People leave to work for competitors all the time and for a million different reasons. Some get fired or told they're not getting a promotion, some want to be in a different location, some get raises or promotions for moving. Even if I think it's a bad idea to move I don't hold a grudge. Often the people that leave the company are still friends or acquaintances. But they're not on my team any more. If I'm in a bar and someone from my team is there, I'm buying them a drink. If it's someone who moved to a different company, I'll certainly say hi and see how they're doing, but I'm not buying a drink. I've left jobs before and would expect the same treatment from a former employer.
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flyfishwyo wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 11:28 am
307bball wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:46 am

This is the part that all of the people who harbor resentment towards players transferring are missing. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY.

This is how every player in the modern era has felt...the transfer rules just kept it from manifesting. If you think Larry Nance, Josh Adams, Josh Allen, Brandon Ewing, etc... would have stayed if they had mid 6 figures and no penalty to transfer....you are just naive. Players who are playing men's college basketball and football are professionals, full stop. These guys are not student athletes. They are not loyal to their school. On the hardwood and on the gridiron they are often consummate team players that want to win but once the game ends, every one of these guys are making business decisions and school loyalty doesn't factor in. This is not a moral issue. The hate towards the players is just asinine.
Whoa there, buddy. I didn't say I'm pissed or resentful towards the guys who left. Ike made a move that will definitely benefit him, and I'm going to watch a few of his games this year because Gonzaga is on TV at least once a week. Which is another reason it's a good move for him. Oden, DuSell, and others played their hearts out while they were here. They have my respect. I don't wish them bad luck in the future, although I do question some of the choices they made.

The whole transfer portal/NIL thing isn't very different than the job market. People leave to work for competitors all the time and for a million different reasons. Some get fired or told they're not getting a promotion, some want to be in a different location, some get raises or promotions for moving. Even if I think it's a bad idea to move I don't hold a grudge. Often the people that leave the company are still friends or acquaintances. But they're not on my team any more. If I'm in a bar and someone from my team is there, I'm buying them a drink. If it's someone who moved to a different company, I'll certainly say hi and see how they're doing, but I'm not buying a drink. I've left jobs before and would expect the same treatment from a former employer.
I don't mean to paint you as resentful towards transferring players... Just using what you said about players playing for the name on the back vs the name on the front as an example of something that has gone on long before NIL.
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bladerunnr wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 1:54 pm
stymeman wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:27 pm Graham going to Gonzaga is a good fit, and my 2nd favorite team so it'll be fun to watch his progress!!!
Well, you should go over to the Gonzaga board and cheer lead your new player. The last time I checked, this is a Wyoming board and no one gives a poop about Gonzaga.
Indeed, I hope Gonzaga craps the bed and the ungrateful greedy Ike doesn’t get a championship ring. I hope they don’t sniff the elite eight the remainder of his time there.
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307bball wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:46 am
flyfishwyo wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2023 3:09 pm .... And it supports a system where athletes play for the name on the back of the jersey, not the front.
This is the part that all of the people who harbor resentment towards players transferring are missing. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY.

This is how every player in the modern era has felt...the transfer rules just kept it from manifesting. If you think Larry Nance, Josh Adams, Josh Allen, Brandon Ewing, etc... would have stayed if they had mid 6 figures and no penalty to transfer....you are just naive. Players who are playing men's college basketball and football are professionals, full stop. These guys are not student athletes. They are not loyal to their school. On the hardwood and on the gridiron they are often consummate team players that want to win but once the game ends, every one of these guys are making business decisions and school loyalty doesn't factor in. This is not a moral issue. The hate towards the players is just asinine.
Josh Allen turned down 8 figures to stay at Wyoming another year, BTW.
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Poke in New England wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:35 am
307bball wrote: Sun Apr 23, 2023 6:46 am

This is the part that all of the people who harbor resentment towards players transferring are missing. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY.

This is how every player in the modern era has felt...the transfer rules just kept it from manifesting. If you think Larry Nance, Josh Adams, Josh Allen, Brandon Ewing, etc... would have stayed if they had mid 6 figures and no penalty to transfer....you are just naive. Players who are playing men's college basketball and football are professionals, full stop. These guys are not student athletes. They are not loyal to their school. On the hardwood and on the gridiron they are often consummate team players that want to win but once the game ends, every one of these guys are making business decisions and school loyalty doesn't factor in. This is not a moral issue. The hate towards the players is just asinine.
Josh Allen turned down 8 figures to stay at Wyoming another year, BTW.
The thought that JA would have left is dumb. I’ve had the argument here before, but it boils down to that. He could have been a first round pick and made millions, but he would have transferred to another school to make a tiny fraction of that. Lol
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LanderPoke wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:14 am
Poke in New England wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:35 am

Josh Allen turned down 8 figures to stay at Wyoming another year, BTW.
The thought that JA would have left is dumb. I’ve had the argument here before, but it boils down to that. He could have been a first round pick and made millions, but he would have transferred to another school to make a tiny fraction of that. Lol
People got called dumb (including me) for wondering what would happen with Ike when it was announced that he was going to redshirt last year. I was 70/30 that he was going to stay though. In hindsight...I think it was naïve of me to think that he would stay.

On the topic of Josh Allen or Larry Nance or whoever in the past, it's pretty much pure speculation. I don't put the decision to declare for the draft or not in the same place as deciding to transfer though. The year he would have transferred would have been before the '16 season anyways....Even if I'm right and there is an alternate universe where NIL happens 10 years earlier and JA leaves before the '16 season...that does not downgrade him in my eyes one bit. He's a cowboy...loved watching him. I feel the same towards Graham...The last season he was active was awesome. He was so fun to watch. I loved it and I don't feel bad at all for that. His decision to leave hurts but not because he's a terrible human being or a douche....it just sucks to be a Wyoming fan when the program works so hard to identify overlooked talent and then when it manifests, the system kicks in and kicks us in the balls. It's not the players fault....they are reacting to incentives. College athletics is big business and has been for longer than any of us realize or care to admit.
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307bball wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:58 am
LanderPoke wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:14 am
The thought that JA would have left is dumb. I’ve had the argument here before, but it boils down to that. He could have been a first round pick and made millions, but he would have transferred to another school to make a tiny fraction of that. Lol
People got called dumb (including me) for wondering what would happen with Ike when it was announced that he was going to redshirt last year. I was 70/30 that he was going to stay though. In hindsight...I think it was naïve of me to think that he would stay.

On the topic of Josh Allen or Larry Nance or whoever in the past, it's pretty much pure speculation. I don't put the decision to declare for the draft or not in the same place as deciding to transfer though. The year he would have transferred would have been before the '16 season anyways....Even if I'm right and there is an alternate universe where NIL happens 10 years earlier and JA leaves before the '16 season...that does not downgrade him in my eyes one bit. He's a cowboy...loved watching him. I feel the same towards Graham...The last season he was active was awesome. He was so fun to watch. I loved it and I don't feel bad at all for that. His decision to leave hurts but not because he's a terrible human being or a douche....it just sucks to be a Wyoming fan when the program works so hard to identify overlooked talent and then when it manifests, the system kicks in and kicks us in the balls. It's not the players fault....they are reacting to incentives. College athletics is big business and has been for longer than any of us realize or care to admit.
Before 2016, Josh Allen was still a 0-star recruit from JuCo with a broken collarbone. NIL or not we were still the only school that wanted him at that point.
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Poke in New England wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:34 am
307bball wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 10:58 am

People got called dumb (including me) for wondering what would happen with Ike when it was announced that he was going to redshirt last year. I was 70/30 that he was going to stay though. In hindsight...I think it was naïve of me to think that he would stay.

On the topic of Josh Allen or Larry Nance or whoever in the past, it's pretty much pure speculation. I don't put the decision to declare for the draft or not in the same place as deciding to transfer though. The year he would have transferred would have been before the '16 season anyways....Even if I'm right and there is an alternate universe where NIL happens 10 years earlier and JA leaves before the '16 season...that does not downgrade him in my eyes one bit. He's a cowboy...loved watching him. I feel the same towards Graham...The last season he was active was awesome. He was so fun to watch. I loved it and I don't feel bad at all for that. His decision to leave hurts but not because he's a terrible human being or a douche....it just sucks to be a Wyoming fan when the program works so hard to identify overlooked talent and then when it manifests, the system kicks in and kicks us in the balls. It's not the players fault....they are reacting to incentives. College athletics is big business and has been for longer than any of us realize or care to admit.
Before 2016, Josh Allen was still a 0-star recruit from JuCo with a broken collarbone. NIL or not we were still the only school that wanted him at that point.
You are probably right...I remember thinking he was really good before he hurt his collarbone....I can't be the only one that saw that, but it's pure and utter speculation. As for transferring after 2016, getting paid to go to the NFL or getting paid to transfer are not the same thing.

The comments made by Brandon Ewing really have made me think about this in a different way. Guys that play their whole college career at one school are pretty much 100% "loyal" to that school...every time. I think that happens after the fact. Even the best are going to be disgruntled and challenged by their coach or have a bad interaction with a teammate or fan or something and feel like they would be happier elsewhere. In the past, that player had to suck it up or sit out. Most of them sucked it up, matured, and even if they were not all stars became some sort of contributor as an upperclassman that they could take pride in. Now, you can go, even if you aren't' that good... you can transfer and hope for immediate PT. We are seeing that the challenges to getting HS recruits to even commit to coming to Laramie are now being transferred to just getting players to stay. Am I overstating the effect this would have had on past Wyoming greats?...I suppose it's possible but it's hard to make that case when we are pretty much 0-fer in the small sample size of guys that legitimately have an option to leave and take bigger NIL $$. The best you could point to is probably Hunter Maldanodo...I love the guy but he was an oddity in college basketball....I don't put him in the same category of player as Ike.
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307bball wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 12:25 pm
Poke in New England wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:34 am

Before 2016, Josh Allen was still a 0-star recruit from JuCo with a broken collarbone. NIL or not we were still the only school that wanted him at that point.
You are probably right...I remember thinking he was really good before he hurt his collarbone....I can't be the only one that saw that, but it's pure and utter speculation. As for transferring after 2016, getting paid to go to the NFL or getting paid to transfer are not the same thing.

The comments made by Brandon Ewing really have made me think about this in a different way. Guys that play their whole college career at one school are pretty much 100% "loyal" to that school...every time. I think that happens after the fact. Even the best are going to be disgruntled and challenged by their coach or have a bad interaction with a teammate or fan or something and feel like they would be happier elsewhere. In the past, that player had to suck it up or sit out. Most of them sucked it up, matured, and even if they were not all stars became some sort of contributor as an upperclassman that they could take pride in. Now, you can go, even if you aren't' that good... you can transfer and hope for immediate PT. We are seeing that the challenges to getting HS recruits to even commit to coming to Laramie are now being transferred to just getting players to stay. Am I overstating the effect this would have had on past Wyoming greats?...I suppose it's possible but it's hard to make that case when we are pretty much 0-fer in the small sample size of guys that legitimately have an option to leave and take bigger NIL $$. The best you could point to is probably Hunter Maldanodo...I love the guy but he was an oddity in college basketball....I don't put him in the same category of player as Ike.
This is so true. Come on, everybody. Didn't you at least once during your time at UW have at least a passing thought of maybe going someplace else? For whatever reason - perceived inequities in attention/grades/etc. Breaking up with a girlfriend, lousy food in Washakie, brutal winters, maybe just a vague desire for something different. But for the bulk of us, we never moved on those feelings (nor did we really even have any real opportunity to leave). I feel I really got a great education (with no debt) For all of these young athletes (please remember they are only 18-22 - I remember how stupid I was at that age!), a complete Pandora's Box has been opened. No evidence (YET) for them of any potential big downside to this NIL thing. It's basically just kids with the gate wide open to "where the grass is greener". Basically no rules, no history to learn from - it's all brand new. Aside from the few that will score (Ike, etc. at the top level), the best most of the rest will do is a lateral move, if that. I imagine there will eventually be a fair amount of regret sometime down the road for a pretty substantial percentage of all of the 1000's who have jumped or been enticed into both portals.
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Reynolds to Wisconsin-Green Bay. A much better spot for him. Kinda crappy of Wicks to take one of our players, but Reynolds is a quitter so ultimately no big loss for us.
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LanderPoke wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:52 pm Reynolds to Wisconsin-Green Bay. A much better spot for him. Kinda crappy of Wicks to take one of our players, but Reynolds is a quitter so ultimately no big loss for us.
Look for a lot of players following coaches to new school with the portal.
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LanderPoke wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:52 pm Reynolds to Wisconsin-Green Bay. A much better spot for him. Kinda crappy of Wicks to take one of our players, but Reynolds is a quitter so ultimately no big loss for us.
I think that's pretty much the expectation these days. Didn't we pick up 2 that were committed to ISU and followed the assistant who recruited them here?
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doreno5 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:01 am
LanderPoke wrote: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:52 pm Reynolds to Wisconsin-Green Bay. A much better spot for him. Kinda crappy of Wicks to take one of our players, but Reynolds is a quitter so ultimately no big loss for us.
Look for a lot of players following coaches to new school with the portal.
This was almost undoubtedly in the works while Noah Reynolds was still ‘committed’ to Wisconsin. Sundance Wicks hired Noah Reynolds brother Nic Reynolds to join his staff. Unsurprisingly, Noah Reynolds then changed his commitment.
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:38 am
doreno5 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:01 am

Look for a lot of players following coaches to new school with the portal.
This was almost undoubtedly in the works while Noah Reynolds was still ‘committed’ to Wisconsin. Sundance Wicks hired Noah Reynolds brother Nic Reynolds to join his staff. Unsurprisingly, Noah Reynolds then changed his commitment.
Yes, Wicks took him from Wisconsin, not us. Reynolds committed to Wisconsin 3 weeks after Wicks was announced at GB.
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OrediggerPoke wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:38 am
doreno5 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:01 am

Look for a lot of players following coaches to new school with the portal.
This was almost undoubtedly in the works while Noah Reynolds was still ‘committed’ to Wisconsin. Sundance Wicks hired Noah Reynolds brother Nic Reynolds to join his staff. Unsurprisingly, Noah Reynolds then changed his commitment.
The cynic in me wonders if when Noah first committed to Wisconsin his brother was under consideration for a job under Wicks or if that happened later.
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It might also be the case that he realized he would need to fight for minutes at Wisconsin, but would be guaranteed a starter spot at Green Bay.
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Udubalum07 wrote: Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:29 pm It might also be the case that he realized he would need to fight for minutes at Wisconsin, but would be guaranteed a starter spot at Green Bay.
In that case, I guess he would have rather fought for minutes at Wisconsin than be guaranteed a started spot at Wyoming.
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Count me as someone who would never contribute to a NIL collective. Waste of money. If anything all this portal stuff is driving me the other way toward total disinterest.
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Agbonkpolo to Utah state! ha ha. They must be desperate
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